Jump to content
IGNORED

Atari 7800 Demos


DracIsBack
 Share

Recommended Posts

Here's a handful...

 

Atarius Maximus' Adventurer (Zelda Overworld Map Demo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWLHwAH-9GE

 

 

Heaven of Taquart's Sprite Demos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDtvwObE_pA

 

 

Schmutzpuppe's Multi Lock On

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daDE3ZDfMLM&index=73

 

 

Mord's RPG Tile Demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzs4YclbK6g

 

 

RevEng's Punch-Out!! Demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r838FSDYpc

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, thosse demos are amazing. It really proves that the Atari 7800 was more than capable of competing the NES. Too bad Atari was is such a sad shape by the time the 7800 went to market, and had idiots like Tramiel's at the helm otherwise it may had played out very differently for 7800 vs NES battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, thosse demos are amazing. It really proves that the Atari 7800 was more than capable of competing the NES. Too bad Atari was is such a sad shape by the time the 7800 went to market, and had idiots like Tramiel's at the helm otherwise it may had played out very differently for 7800 vs NES battle.

 

 

 

I really wish people would lose the whole armchair CEO snottiness when it comes to the Tramiels.

 

Not being snotty. The Tramiel's made horrible business decisions that led to the demise of Atari. Things could have played out a lot differently if they didn't delay the 7800 being released to market. Nintendo had originally approached Atari to have the rights to sell the NES console in the US as well as all market outside Japan because they feared Atari's dominance in 1983, but those negotiations fell apart prior to the Tramiel's taking over Atari. The Atari 7800 was released to market 2 years late in 1986, and by that time Nintendo had established a sizeable presence, and dominated the market by tying up 3rd party titles under exclusive licensing agreements. If the Atari 7800 had arrived in 1984 as opposed to 1986 Atari would have already had the market presence it needed with the 7800, and would have put them in position where the fledgling Nintendo didn't stand much of a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not being snotty. The Tramiel's made horrible business decisions that led to the demise of Atari. Things could have played out a lot differently if they didn't delay the 7800 being released to market. Nintendo had originally approached Atari to have the rights to sell the NES console in the US as well as all market outside Japan because they feared Atari's dominance in 1983, but those negotiations fell apart prior to the Tramiel's taking over Atari. The Atari 7800 was released to market 2 years late in 1986, and by that time Nintendo had established a sizeable presence, and dominated the market by tying up 3rd party titles under exclusive licensing agreements. If the Atari 7800 had arrived in 1984 as opposed to 1986 Atari would have already had the market presence it needed with the 7800, and would have put them in position where the fledgling Nintendo didn't stand much of a chance.

 

You're repeating myths and overlooking key facts.

 

The 7800 was delayed for a shitload of reasons

 

1. There was a big ass contractual dispute between Warner, the Tramiels and GCC that had to be sorted out regarding the 7800 and its games.

 

2. The whole friggen game market had collapsed by that point and the retailers eyed Atari as the prime culprit. I question whether or not they'd have actually had major retail support if they had gone wide release. Remember - everything Nintendo did with the NES branding was to distance itself from Atari. Shipping it with a robot, calling it an Entertainment System (not video game), calling the games Entertainment Paks etc.

 

3. Tramiel himself inherited a giant mess from Warner and it took everything they had to keep the company alive and afloat at that time.

 

4. Tramiel also had to build up a game department, hire Mike Katz, find licenses etc. In the real world, recruiting, hiring and initiatives take time. And made harder by the fact that Tramiel had other bigger problems like trying to keep the company afloat, getting the ST shipped in record time, dealing with tons of uncollectible accounts receivable etc.

 

In the case of Nintendo, they did not have "a sizeable presence". Nintendo's release of the NES in North America in 1985 was restricted to test markets and that continued into 1986. The wide release of the NES happened around the same time as the 7800 itself was released. You are correct that Nintendo locked up key licenses (this would get Nintendo into trouble later) but Nintendo's real advantage was disruptive games, a killer game design department that Tramiel didn't have.

 

Indeed he did make mistakes. We all do. And we have the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. What have you personally done that compares to him keeping Atari alive and being able to pay of hundreds of millions of dollars in debts to Warner in a few years, shipping a new computer platform in 11 months, returning a company written off for dead to profitability pretty quickly etc? Since you're calling him an idiot and all ...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, thosse demos are amazing. It really proves that the Atari 7800 was more than capable of competing the NES. Too bad Atari was is such a sad shape by the time the 7800 went to market, and had idiots like Tramiel's at the helm otherwise it may had played out very differently for 7800 vs NES battle.

I find it disappointing that the only thing you took from my first post in this thread was a small statement about the Tramiel's, and completely ignored the main point I made in my post about the demos being amazing, and showing the potential of the 7800 to compete with the NES.

 

What have you personally done that compares to him keeping Atari alive and being able to pay of hundreds of millions of dollars in debts to Warner in a few years, shipping a new computer platform in 11 months, returning a company written off for dead to profitability pretty quickly etc? Since you're calling him an idiot and all

You accuse me of being snotty, but as I see it you were the one being snotty with that accusation on your first post, and further more with what you say in your follow up reply quoted above.

 

You're repeating myths and overlooking key facts.

 

The 7800 was delayed for a shitload of reasons

 

1. There was a big ass contractual dispute between Warner, the Tramiels and GCC that had to be sorted out regarding the 7800 and its games.

 

2. The whole friggen game market had collapsed by that point and the retailers eyed Atari as the prime culprit. I question whether or not they'd have actually had major retail support if they had gone wide release. Remember - everything Nintendo did with the NES branding was to distance itself from Atari. Shipping it with a robot, calling it an Entertainment System (not video game), calling the games Entertainment Paks etc.

 

3. Tramiel himself inherited a giant mess from Warner and it took everything they had to keep the company alive and afloat at that time.

 

4. Tramiel also had to build up a game department, hire Mike Katz, find licenses etc. In the real world, recruiting, hiring and initiatives take time. And made harder by the fact that Tramiel had other bigger problems like trying to keep the company afloat, getting the ST shipped in record time, dealing with tons of uncollectible accounts receivable etc.

 

In the case of Nintendo, they did not have "a sizeable presence". Nintendo's release of the NES in North America in 1985 was restricted to test markets and that continued into 1986. The wide release of the NES happened around the same time as the 7800 itself was released. You are correct that Nintendo locked up key licenses (this would get Nintendo into trouble later) but Nintendo's real advantage was disruptive games, a killer game design department that Tramiel didn't have.

 

Indeed he did make mistakes. We all do. And we have the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. What have you personally done that compares to him keeping Atari alive and being able to pay of hundreds of millions of dollars in debts to Warner in a few years, shipping a new computer platform in 11 months, returning a company written off for dead to profitability pretty quickly etc? Since you're calling him an idiot and all ...

It's ok to admit that you are a Tramiel apologist. Tramiel had a bad reputation of being horrible to work with, and as a result had a toxic relationship with retailers, and with other business people who wanted nothing to do with him, or any of his products. Tramiel could have paid GCC up front for the rights to the 7800, but instead he wanted the rights to the 7800 for free even thought NO ONE had ever paid GCC for the system yet. Tramiel bought Atari, and all it debt as well as financial obligations, and just because he bought Atari that did not give him the rights to something that was never paid for. It was his responsibility to pay for those rights to the 7800 system as he bought all of that debt, and inherited the financial obligations, and should not have expected Time Warner to foot the bill, or GCC to give him the 7800 for free since it hadn't been paid for. Tramiel knew that he was getting into when he bought Atari, and as the old saying going "Buyer beware". Instead of taking care of his financial obligations as it pertained to securing the rights to the 7800 he spent 2 years going on a personal vendetta against Commodore who ousted him. Once that failed, and he saw how profitable Nintendo had become in such a short period of time he tucked his tail between his legs, and paid for the rights to the 7800 in hopes that he could ride the wave that Nintendo had made with the NES. The NES shipped in October 1985 in the US an the 7800 didn't make it to market until May 1986. If released in 1984 Atari likely would have been in a position where Nintendo wouldn't have been able to compete as Atari would have had a 2 years lead with 7800 and a solid base of units sold. As we result by the end of 1986 Atari had sold only 100,000 Atari 7800 systems where as Nintendo had sold 1.1 million for the NES. Unfortunately it was too late by that point and Atari never recovered. The rest was just a slow painful death for Atari, and I don't think that there was much that anyone could have done to change things.

 

Absolutely Nintendo had the better titles, and that is large in part due to the exclusive license agreements that they forced publishers into, and I have long be critic of those being anti trust tactics. However Nintendo first party titles were always very strong on the system, and thing one reason for that is because Nintendo realized that the home video game market was different than the arcade. and produced games that were tailored specifically to the home market. Those game had stories that engaged the players by getting the player invested into caring about the characters. Super Mario Bros was the beginning of blockbuster franchises that kept the players coming back for more. Atari never adapted well to that, and kept the focus on arcade conversions instead of working to develop franchises of its own franchises for the home video game market to give consumers a reason to want to own the 7800 for those titles alone.

Edited by Tidus79001
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow - on so many levels, this is wrong.

 

1. As I said above, the NES was released in limited test markets in 1985 and that spread into 1986. He didn't "look over and suddenly see how profitable the Nintendo was". This has been addressed many times in these forums by people who've research Atari Corp extensively. The NES wasn't even widely available until mid 1986 itself.

2. On the "vendetta" against Commodore, how do you come to this conclusion? Because of the contractual problems with the Amiga? Because of the price wars that had already started before he bought Atari? Because losing the Amiga meant he had to build a 16-bit computer from scratch?

As I said above, his biggest challenge was keeping the company alive and afloat. What you construe as "a vendetta", I construe as "trying to keep a company going when both the 8bit computer market and video game market" were filled with huge challenges.

3. What if the 7800 came out in 1984? Would Galaga, Xevious and Pole Position have convinced people to buy it? Would retailers have heartily stocked an Atari video game and pushed it heavily? But as I said above, you repeat the myth that Nintendo suddenly took off and then Jack suddenly dusted off the 7800. It's nonsense. The NES was in limited test markets for almost a year, only becoming widely available in the back half of the year. Its real sales began in 1987.

3. On the 7800 ownership, how many business deals like the Atari purchase have you done? Have you gone over the Tramiel Atari Purchase Agreement and its clauses personally? Have you gone over the rights, duties and responsibilities of Warner and Atari closely?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't the 7800 test marketed in 84 how did it sell and what games was out for it at that time.

That's the rumor but I've never seen anything solid to confirm that Atari released the 7800 in any quanties in 1984. Never seen any ads for it, no contemporary reports on it being available (and other test launches certainly had coverage), just claims popping up years later that the test launch went through. I think there is confusion over the system's planned 1984 summer launch and the idea of it being test marketed. As far as I'm concerned anything that has copyright 84 on it was NOS sold in 1986 when the console launched.

 

Tramiel didn't want to pay GCC because their contract was specific to Warner and they wanted Warner to pay. It took months to sort the mess out for Jack to pay GCC and then months more to get the rights to the games they were making, by which point he had to lay off the development staff he had kept on from the Warner purchase. Atari Corp was a very lean ship and the initial costs were a big issue. His agreement with Warner did include him taking on plenty of debts and bills to begin with, the 7800 was just one that he and GCC thought was Warner's responsibility. Hell, it probably was and he just paid it to get it settled fast enough to hit the market.

 

The demos are pretty badass, though I do find it funny that the go-to demo topics seem to be Nintendo materials. They really did rule the roost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talked to someone at a recent classic gaming show here in SoCal who said he purchased a 7800 in the summer of '84. He said that there were no games available for it other than the pack-in game Pole Position 2.

 

Mitch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talked to someone at a recent classic gaming show here in SoCal who said he purchased a 7800 in the summer of '84. He said that there were no games available for it other than the pack-in game Pole Position 2.

 

Mitch

 

Where did he live at the time? Made a bigger difference at the time, in terms of market reach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Multi Lock On reminds me of certain stick figure cartoons on Newgrounds. In particular, Xiao Xiao, Fluidanims, anything by Phillips Lacanlale (Terkoiz1), Michael Sung's MicWizard, and anything by Nhazul. I can see Mord and Atarius Maximus' demos being made into actual games, but without the copyright characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did he live at the time? Made a bigger difference at the time, in terms of market reach.

Pretty sure he said LA. If I see him at the next one I'll ask him to clarify. And maybe get a picture.

 

Mitch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
Guest LiqMat

I talked to someone at a recent classic gaming show here in SoCal who said he purchased a 7800 in the summer of '84. He said that there were no games available for it other than the pack-in game Pole Position 2.

 

Mitch

 

That's surprising. I sold my Colecovision in 1984 as a kid so I could purchase the 7800 after reading an article about it and seeing some screenshots in a magazine. Waited, waited and it pretty much never materialized in south Florida where I lived at the time. Finally moved on to a C64 and never looked back. So if they were released in 84, I am guessing it was a very limited release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...