AtGames 2018 speculation thread

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Honestly, from AtGames' point of view, it would have been better just to go with the NES versions for the 2018 product, and save the arcade ROMs as an upgrade for the 2019 version. It would have been just fine for the mass audience, and us enthusiasts would have gotten what we've come to expect from AtGames - a product that's great for the casual audience but doesn't check every one of our boxes. Instead, the mis-communication over the running change is the sort of thing that hurts trust in a brand, and not just with the haters.

 

I won't say any more on the topic, except to say I still plan to buy AtGames products, but I won't be an early adopter.

 

Believe me, I get it. Sometimes AtGames can be its own worst enemy with stuff like this. They're trying to make it as right as they can, though.

[Sardonyx]

Believe me, I get it. Sometimes AtGames can be its own worst enemy with stuff like this. They're trying to make it as right as they can, though.

Wow, that's putting it very delicately. I would be quite angry if I'd ordered this as everything has said these would be arcade versions and there has never been mention of a NES version until this YouTube video.

 

So, to be clear - there is going to be a Walmart version with Pacmania that's the arcade version? Or will all of those be NES versions? The version with Tower of Druaga isn't releasing until 11/1 based on the pre-order info I can find. Will there be both NES and Arcade versions of that one as well?

 

They really need to communicate things like this much better as people are making purchasing decisions based on the info.

[Bill Loguidice]

Wow, that's putting it very delicately. I would be quite angry if I'd ordered this as everything has said these would be arcade versions and there has never been mention of a NES version until this YouTube video.

 

So, to be clear - there is going to be a Walmart version with Pacmania that's the arcade version? Or will all of those be NES versions? The version with Tower of Druaga isn't releasing until 11/1 based on the pre-order info I can find. Will there be both NES and Arcade versions of that one as well?

 

They really need to communicate things like this much better as people are making purchasing decisions based on the info.

 

No, every version will eventually be the arcade version, Walmart exclusive or no. Initial batches of both are NES versions.

[AtariLeaf]

I didn't rewatch John hancocks video but I don't remember him mentioning a nes and arcade version. I'm assuming atgames never told him about two versions leading him to believe what he got was what everyone would get and from the beginning, not down the line. If that's the case then they deliberately did this. Had John reviewed the nes version it's safe to assume the review would have been less favorable. What They should have done was send him one of each and explain the difference so he could tell his audience. They did this instead.To me this is shady and knowingly so. I'm not an atgames hater but I'm certainly not a fan. This kind of shenanigans doesn't help.

 

I'm assuming Bill, you knew this would eventually come up. Were you told not to say anything because johns video was up a couple weeks and you Were silent on what you seemed to know all along

Edited October 17, 2018 by AtariLeaf

[Bill Loguidice]

I didn't rewatch John hancocks video but I don't remember him mentioning a nes and arcade version. I'm assuming atgames never told him about two versions leading him to believe what he got was what everyone would get and from the beginning, not down the line. If that's the case then they deliberately did this. Had John reviewed the nes version it's safe to assume the review would have been less favorable. What They should have done was send him one of each and explain the difference so he could tell his audience. They did this instead.To me this is shady and knowingly so. I'm not an atgames hater but I'm certainly not a fan. This kind of shenanigans doesn't help.

 

I'm assuming Bill, you knew this would eventually come up. Were you told not to say anything because johns video was up a couple weeks and you Were silent on what you seemed to know all along

 

Again, the intention always was was that initial production would be home versions, which would shortly switch to arcade versions (different hardware bases, so it's not a simple software switch). The switch is taking longer than expected, unfortunately. And if someone bought the home console version and is unhappy with it, they can contact AtGames who will address the issue.

[AtariLeaf]

 

Again, the intention always was was that initial production would be home versions

 

And again, why was John Hancock sent a version to review that would not initially be sold but presented as it would? My problem is there was no communication from Atgames to John that there would be two versions. Kind of important when you send something to someone with the intention of reviewing it and presenting it as the default product being sold.

 

My problem is not with you Bill, I can tell you are caught in the middle so please don't construe this as criticism of you but you have to admit the optics of what was done with John Hancocks review unit and the silence about this initial run doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

And again, why was John Hancock sent a version to review that would not initially be sold but presented as it would? My problem is there was no communication from Atgames to John that there would be two versions. Kind of important when you send something to someone with the intention of reviewing it and presenting it as the default product being sold.

 

My problem is not with you Bill, I can tell you are caught in the middle so please don't construe this as criticism of you but you have to admit the optics of what was done with John Hancocks review unit and the silence about this initial run doesn't pass the sniff test.

It's not up to me to change your mind. I can only tell you what happened. It should have been communicated better, but there was no ill intention intended. If someone feels wronged or gipped and bought the product, AtGames will try and take care of it. Beyond that, I really have nothing else to say.

[AtariLeaf]

It's not up to me to change your mind. I can only tell you what happened. It should have been communicated better, but there was no ill intention intended. If someone feels wronged or gipped and bought the product, AtGames will try and take care of it. Beyond that, I really have nothing else to say.

 

PR spin never changes my mind. Without a better explanation, "should have been communicated better" doesn't pass the sniff test. This was deliberate to get a good review. Seems others feel the same

 

[Bill Loguidice]

 

PR spin never changes my mind. Without a better explanation, "should have been communicated better" doesn't pass the sniff test. This was deliberate to get a good review. Seems others feel the same

 

A harasser using language like "scam" and what-not is not a great example to use. I tried to open a dialog with that person and explain how AtGames was going to rectify any misunderstandings, but they preferred to just ignore that and run with the click-bait video. It's one reason why the core community is rarely targeted. There are some unreasonable people out there.

[AtariLeaf]

It's not a scam, I don't believe it is of course. People like this fellow have only the information in front of them so they run with it, and the silence from Atgames is the real problem here. You're right and the average soccer mom or casual gamer might not notice or care. When they do involve a big name like John Hancock to review it specifically targeted to this more involved community, it's in their best interest to be up front. That's all I'm saying. It's not poor communication. It's, I feel, purposeful omission. Not a scam, but a crossing-your-fingers-and-hope-no-one-notices-till-we-fix-it approach which was a poor choice.

[Bill Loguidice]

It's not a scam, I don't believe it is of course. People like this fellow have only the information in front of them so they run with it, and the silence from Atgames is the real problem here. You're right and the average soccer mom or casual gamer might not notice or care. When they do involve a big name like John Hancock to review it specifically targeted to this more involved community, it's in their best interest to be up front. That's all I'm saying. It's not poor communication. It's, I feel, purposeful omission. Not a scam, but a crossing-your-fingers-and-hope-no-one-notices-till-we-fix-it approach which was a poor choice.

 

No, it was literally get what the final version of the product is going to be in reviewer's hands. Unfortunately, production issues have caused a delay, so now the running change to the arcade version is taking longer than expected. It was accurate at the time, now it's changed. And there is a solution in place for those who don't want the home-based version.

[AtariLeaf]

 

No, it was literally get what the final version of the product is going to be in reviewer's hands. Unfortunately, production issues have caused a delay, so now the running change to the arcade version is taking longer than expected. It was accurate at the time, now it's changed. And there is a solution in place for those who don't want the home-based version.

 

Ok I can accept that. I hope you don't think this was a personal attack Bill, it never was. I know you are an above-board honest person with a great reputation here. Peace my friend.

[Keatah]

To me it simply sounds like a company trying to market something too fast. Typical. It's why I don't pay much attention to reviews, don't do kickstarters, don't do pre-orders, and only buy retail after a product has proven itself.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Ok I can accept that. I hope you don't think this was a personal attack Bill, it never was. I know you are an above-board honest person with a great reputation here. Peace my friend.

 

Thanks. I'm just trying to be clear. It's hard to get a message out when some people just want to attack. Obviously, this should have never happened in the first place, but it's frustrating when certain factions just want to run with sensationalism and make noise, thinking they've "gotcha!". If you really think about it, the whole idea that anyone would think that a company would think they'd pull a fast one by advertising one product and selling another is rather preposterous. It's definitely more fun to think the worst.

[Bill Loguidice]

To me it simply sounds like a company trying to market something too fast. Typical. It's why I don't pay much attention to reviews, don't do kickstarters, don't do pre-orders, and only buy retail after a product has proven itself.

 

That's a good philosophy. This situation is unique, though, but one I agree we shouldn't have been in in the first place. We just have to do better as a company not biting ourselves in the butt and not giving jerks openings to be completely over-the-top awful.

[TwinChargers]

Working retail, I understand the demands that are put in place on a company like AtGames to have a product ready to put out at a very specific time. There is no flexable timeline to where they release their product once all the kinks are worked out and its in its 100% ready to go. I don't think AtGames had the intent initially on these Namco Blast! having the NES roms instead of direct arcade ports, but it just so happened that way. Once they did know that they were going to have to go that route, I wish that they would have been more upfront about it, but at the same time, outside of our "community", no one else would probably really care either way.

 

Like Bill has stated before, we are not exactly their target market here. Its a product for the casuals.

[kakutoman]

the packaging was pretty deceptive. I bought the pacman one from walmart a few days ago and the screenshots do look like the arcade version.

 

Nothing against bill, but this puts hurt in the trust with the consumer.

 

also i am not thinking "gotcha" I am thinking I drove to a walmart 45 minutes away because it seemed interesting for the releases of this year only to be dissapointed when i fired my stick up when i got home.

 

also proof that i am not some random troll on the internet:

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by kakutoman

[Akito01]

Admittedly this is my own BS opinion, so whatever, but it doesn't seem to me that ATGames has learned from their experience with Sega. This is pure short term thinking that doesn't understand that there is such a thing as 'poisoning the well'. Never mind enthusiasts like ourselves, just think of the average consumer -if this is their experience with an ATGames product, what is the chance they are going to continue to purchase future products? The promise of improvements doesn't mean anything if their initial experience was bad. I was turned off Samsung products for a very long time because I bought one of their early DVD players in the late '90s and it turned out to be a bit crap, so I came to naturally assume that all their electronics were crap and stayed away. It's becoming a crowded market, and at a certain point, 'good enough' just isn't good enough anymore.

[phoenixdownita]

Seems like the Atari Flashback Blast Vol. 3 (paddle) has sound issues:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/283979-whose-getting-a-flashback-blast-what-do-you-guys-think-of-them/?do=findComment&comment=4136015

[Bill Loguidice]

Seems like the Atari Flashback Blast Vol. 3 (paddle) has sound issues:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/283979-whose-getting-a-flashback-blast-what-do-you-guys-think-of-them/?do=findComment&comment=4136015

 

As I stated in that thread, unfortunately, some Blast! units have an HDMI sound encoder that is incompatible with certain TVs. AtGames encourages anyone with this issue to get in touch with the company directly for prompt support. Usually, you just let us know your email address and we can contact you directly, but since that's not an option in this case, they can just send an email to info@atgames.net

[kakutoman]

:/

I had been checking every day for the arcade flashback legends. I think i will now wait for community feedback to come in first.

[Sardonyx]

:/

I had been checking every day for the arcade flashback legends. I think i will now wait for community feedback to come in first.

 

I got the Arcade Flashback Legends yesterday. No issues with it. Games run fine, rewind feature works well (I got past stage 1 of Ghouls and Ghosts for the first time). I tried probably a dozen of the games, some arcade, some console. It all seems to work fine. I'm happy to answer any questions if you have some.

[Great Hierophant]

I used to believe that anyone who would expect anything other than a discount store quality product from assgames was delusional, but at least they knew what they were getting. Now assgames gave John Hancock a review unit of this emulator gamepad that plays the arcade version of several classic Namco games. These games are being played over HDMI, using vertically oriented graphics and the original arcade sounds. Some people may appreciate the ease of being able to play the original arcade games on their big screen TVs without having to fiddle with MAME or RetroPie.

John specifically referred to this product as a review unit, not a preview unit, not a work-in-progress, not a proof of concept. We know crapgames sends him review samples of their new and upcoming products regularly. It sent him this product with its retail packaging and manual. Even if I think a Youtube reviewer is rather naive, I generally believe most of them are trying to express an honest opinion. There is always a factor of reviewer bias to discount, but unless the "review" is an infomercial, I can usually put up with it. So when one of those 24,000 or so viewers sees John's video and then sees the plug and play he is talking about in the Wal-mart, how many of them may have picked it up on the strength of his video?

Doesn't it seem suspicious that of all the Golden Age games Namco released, shatames only chose games with Famicom ports? Shatgames and other companies have been going back to that well fairly often in the recent past for their plug-n-plays. Those ports are pretty good, but they are NOT the arcade originals. The arcade originals had more detailed graphics, more colors on the screen, less flicker and slowdown and more impressive music and sound effects.

Despite explanations like "Again, the intention always was was that initial production would be home versions, which would shortly switch to arcade versions (different hardware bases, so it's not a simple software switch)" it is impossible to see the effects here as anything other than a bait-and-switch. When was that intention going to be expressed? Does anyone seriously expect the customer to use his powers of telepathy like Professor X to glean assgames' true intentions before he buys its product? Can anyone point to any communication, before Madlittlepixel's video came out, advising the buying public that John was not reviewing the product currently being sold in stores?

Of course not! "Right, the target market for these won't care which version as long as it plays well. Our group obviously cares." I think that is as honest statement of ratgames' view of its customers as any I have ever read. However, the profound contempt that attitude displays toward the consumer convinces me that it would have done nothing about this issue unless someone publicly called them out on it. And this is not the 1980s when a kid saw something they thought looked cool on a random TV ad only to come home to be disappointed. Now the consumer can go back, as did Madlittlepixel, when he felt that something was "off" and find out that he was not sold the product he thought he was buying.

What's the big deal, you may ask, it's only $20? For some gamers on a tight budget, that might be their monthly spending allowance. Still others will have to go to the hassle and inconvenience of returning the product. If Wal-mart has "you open it, you can't return it" policy regarding these electronics, he is going to have a hard time convincing an ignorant customer service rep that he was the victim of a bait and switch. Then he has to deal with the hassle of contacting splatgames customer service. Is splatgames going to offer a full refund? Some people may be so turned off by the experience that they would not want anything else from them. Many consumers aren't forgiving, words like "scam", "bait-and-switch", "liars" and worse are likely to be uttered. Madlittlepixel doesn't always get it right, but he was spot-on this time.

Crackgames is failing real quickly here. This kind of debacle is the kind of does it a disservice in the eyes of both its retail partners like Wal-mart and its licensing partners like Bandai Namco. Was this the way it was with Sega? Did it promise Sega a high quality Classic Edition only to show it the same shit it has been shoveling at consumers for the past 10 years? Is John Hancock happy that he was used to sell a product that Crackgames had no intention of selling in the stores? Did it notify him to ask him to put a disclaimer on his video that the product being sold was not what he showed? I doubt it.

What a pathetic company, no one should give these bottom feeders a dime of their hard earned money. Here's an early submission for the "AtGames 2019 speculation thread", AtGames goes into bankruptcy or exits the video game business after all its licenses withdraw their agreements from it.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Great Hierophant

[Greg2600]

gotta be honest here, why ANYONE who is a long-time, serious collector even wants one of these Blast things, is beyond me? you have these roms 85-times over on various consoles I'm sure, just play them on there. as Bill said, the buying public won't care. As for the You Tube guy ranting and raving, if AtGames put a disclaimer on the box, then no, you can't "sue" for misrepresentation.

[phoenixdownita]

..., why ANYONE who is a long-time, serious collector even wants one of these Blast things, is beyond me? ...

Convenience, it's a nifty little package if it works ... to be fair the dongle connect-disconnect may be less than ideal (I don't like to go back to my TV to do it).

 

And by the way it seems also some customer at Walmart noticed it:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bandai-Namco-Flashback-Blast-Pac-Man-PAC-MANIA-Retro-Gaming-Yellow-818858029629/370082388

 

There's one review with 3 stars:

 

Nothing too negative but he does declare as non-arcade.

 

Wonder if there's fine print on the bottom/side of the box to state it contains NES versions (like they did for the Legends Flashback Blast!)

EDIT:

Actually http://atariage.com/forums/topic/277397-atgames-2018-speculation-thread/page-27?do=findComment&comment=4135656

means the other way around, the arcade should ultimately have a way to tell them apart which means these ones probably do not mention it.