S-Video and Display Choices

[800xl_1984]

I'm currently running my 800XL upgraded-standard video into an old all-in-one Mac with an add-in video card that allows for s-video in.

 

The Mac is roughly 20 years old, with a CRT display that is very noisy (makes all manner of electrical hums and squeals).

 

I'd love to use something different with my Atari. Not looking at adding another mod to change output at this time. Taking baby steps.

 

Do most of you who are using s-video use a contemporary television on computer monitor? Is there a reason to prefer one over the other?

 

Thanks,

J.

 

[Sugarland]

If you can get a 20" sony trinitron tube with s-video and composite input that is great. I regret passing one up a couple years ago. However the Dell 2007FPb is great for NTSC (not PAL or SECAM). There was recently an ebay seller with new old stock speakers for these dells for $12. The ideal cable has both composite AND s-video plugs so you can quickly switch between s-video and composite. The mentioned Dell has a dedicated button to switch between inputs which is great. There are many other older 4:3 LCD's with s-video input as well.

 

An upgrade like Sophia outputs DVI video which is ideal but... the cost. But considering the cost of a $50 LCD needs to be added to the equation. If you have just one A8 computer then that makes the choice easier.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Sugarland
Only for NTSC, not PAL or SECAM

[Gunstar]

The Commodore 1702's and 1084's are an option, with both composite and chroma/luma inputs (s-video on separate RCA jacks). I used a 1702 in the 90's with my 130XE and a 1084S with my 1200XL upto a couple years ago (it's down for repairs). The 1084's sell for about double the price of the 1702's. I think there are some other Commodore models that will work too. Other vintage CRT monitors that are good, and also have chroma/luma and composite inputs are (available in the US in the mid-80's): Taxan model 220. Thomson CM31481IV, Amdek color 300 as well. If you are looking for a real vintage monitor and not a TV, it's true nothing beats a Trinitron, 20" in a little big for me, for a desk monitor, maybe for lounge gaming. Maybe there are Trinitron monitors smaller than 20"? Yep, I just found 9" and 14" Trinitron TV's on ebay...

Edited August 5, 2018 by Gunstar

[JR>]

Composite/S-Video to VGA converters/scalers open up a huge range of monitors.....anything with a vga input. A lot of the cheap ones won't work with the Atari signal, but the one linked below is known to work and works very well for me. Plus with just a push of the button on the converter you can go from s-video for sharpest picture to composite for artifacting so game colors display correctly.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072BCZGNH/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited August 5, 2018 by JR>

[Osgeld]

I use a small 13 inch "720p" LCD, its a craig and its got some nifty features

 

1 is 240p over component 2 is I can actually read 80 column text from an apple II on it over composite 3 its virtually lagless

 

atari computer outputting svideo into it looks very good and overall its been a great little monitor, none of my other HD tv's do nearly as well with retro gear, though its still not as good as a dedicated monitor

[Gunstar]

Composite/S-Video to VGA converters/scalers open up a huge range of monitors.....anything with a vga input. A lot of the cheap ones won't work with the Atari signal, but the one linked below is known to work and works very well for me. Plus with just a push of the button on the converter you can go from s-video for sharpest picture to composite for artifacting so game colors display correctly.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072BCZGNH/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can also highly recommend this converter, I have used it with an Element LCD TV/monitor since my 1084S quit on me. It delivers a brilliant VGA picture from S-video, especially if your Atari's video has been upgraded. This converter will accept either a PAL or NTSC signal too.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Gunstar

[+DrVenkman]

Personally I use chroma/luma with my 1702 monitor, and standard s-video cables with a pair of large early 00’s Toshiba CRT TV’s. I’ve got a 2003 27” and a 2005 30” that are great for retro systems.

[Faicuai]

A high-speed, pro-grade computer monitor with fast video-processor.

 

More bandwidth, largest possible viewable area, more linearity, more light-per-frame, etc. Here (just scroll up):

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/280377-atari-on-a-modern-television/?do=findComment&comment=4064091

Edited August 7, 2018 by Faicuai

[Kyle22]

I have a projector on my 800 sometimes. I need some joystick extenders so I don't need to move the computer each time, it's a perfectly do-able thing.

[mattsoft]

My setup is an 800XL with Bryan's UAV outputting chroma/luma to a Commodore 1702. Picture is clean, vibrant, and beautiful.

[suspicious_milk]

I use a JVC security monitor. Look around eBay and color CRT security monitors can be had fairly cheap. I paid like ~100 dollars shipped and it has two inputs, both BNC and S-Video (passive composite to BNC adapter is under five bucks). Since a single Atari is hooked up, I can hit the input button on the front and switch between composite/s-video for the occasion where composite is desirable. Though it does have a built in speaker, I run the Atari audio to set of bookshelf speakers for that authentic "arcade" sound :-) and the picture quality is not only that authentic look (CRT) but great quality over all.

[800xl_1984]

Thanks for the advice, all. I'm really torn between something more vintage and something that takes up less space!

[Beeblebrox]

Having just been in receipt of a Dell Ultrasharp 2007FPb 20" monitor today, I've found that with my A8 PAL XE's and a (supposidly shielded) DIN to Composite cable, the monitor can't detect the signal for composite. (I get the flashing composite icon top left of the black screen). A quick Google saw a few forums with users having issues connecting their 8-bit computers to this monitor with the same issue/outcome. It seems this is particularly the case for 50hz PAL A8s only and 60hz NTSC A8's are fine with it. 

 

If I route the DIN to Composite cable via my recently aquired (and highly recommended) ODV upscaler which outputs to HDMI, then via an HDMI to VGA adapter and into the VGA/D-sub of the Dell 2007FPb - I get a signal. However this is at the of cost of image quality. Besides doing this somewhat defeats the object of purchasing the monitor with the composite and S-video ports in the first place. I actually planned to hook up the A8 XE's via a DIN to S-Video cable (which is on order from Germany). However now I am thinking the S-video is unlikely to work if I am having issues with the composite for the same reasons.

 

@Sugarland I realise this topic is 3 years old - hope you don't mind me asking but I wonder if your experience of a working setup with the 2007FPb is with an NTSC A8, or did you get it to work with a PAL A8? 

 

As and when my S-video cable arrives I can see for sure if I have the same issue I've had with composite. I suppose at least if I still have to route through the upscaler, etc, the signal will at least be S-video to start with - so likely better image quality. Like I say it'll just be frustrating if having bought a monitor with S-Video, composite, etc ports, I can't actually use them with my PAL A8 XE.

 

For anyone who is interested in the ODV Upscaler (composite RCA/S-Video/YPbPr to HDMI) - it is very good: (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07WYJSSKZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

 

thanks

[Mazzspeed]

I bought a Sharp Aquos 19" 19A35X-BK 16:9 LCD TV with svideo input, it handles the svideo output from my 600XL perfectly and cost me $40.00 second hand. You don't need a pro grade highspeed, high bandwidth 'whatever' to handle a 15khz svideo signal out of an 8bit Atari.

 

I ordered a Sophia 2 off Simius. I'm not too sure why when my current solution works fine, but I removed the RF modulator in preparation for one when I was restoring my 600XL so I may as well fit one. The versatility of a DVI output will be handy. I also ordered a new Atari 600XL badge that should be here any day now - I'm going to have to carefully sand the new badge down quite a bit I think as they look quite thick compared to the factory item.

 

See below:

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[Mazzspeed]

17 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Having just been in receipt of a Dell Ultrasharp 2007FPb 20" monitor today, I've found that with my A8 PAL XE's and a (supposidly shielded) DIN to Composite cable, the monitor can't detect the signal for composite. (I get the flashing composite icon top left of the black screen). A quick Google saw a few forums with users having issues connecting their 8-bit computers to this monitor with the same issue/outcome. It seems this is particularly the case for 50hz PAL A8s only and 60hz NTSC A8's are fine with it. 

I've got one of these monitors. I couldn't get it to sync to the PAL svideo signal from the A8 at all, I just got the flashing svideo icon at the top of the screen.

[Sugarland]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Sugarland I realise this topic is 3 years old - hope you don't mind me asking but I wonder if your experience of a working setup with the 2007FPb is with an NTSC A8, or did you get it to work with a PAL A8? 

 

 

The 2007FPb works great only with NTSC A8's. However some sort of modern scaler may (or may not) allow you to use it with a PAL machine.

 

 

Sorry to hear you got the 2007FPb only to be disappointed. Was that on my suggestion? Ugh! Sorry. There's no way I can go back and edit that post or delete it so that doesn't happen again afaik.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Sugarland

[manterola]

A good option is stopping by your closest thift store/flea market and get an old Lcd TV. Those come (usually) with plenty of input options, include speakers, some have 4:3 aspect ratio, and can get them as low as $10.

 

[Beeblebrox]

7 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

I've got one of these monitors. I couldn't get it to sync to the PAL svideo signal from the A8 at all, I just got the flashing svideo icon at the top of the screen.

@Mazzspeed thanks for confirming and also for your LCD suggestion. So annoying re the Dell. Real learning curve isn't it working out what new tech works with retro kit?

 

Ah well. I'll see how it goes using my ODV upscaler with the S-video cable in the aforementioned mix as and when it arrives. At this stage I'd be unable to return the Dell monitor without incurring cost (Ebay UK job and actually nothing wrong with it).

 

Despite the bad news re S-video/composite, it isn't a bad monitor and I like the other features.

Firstly the 4:3 aspect ratio is great and I get the 20" display overall, so the image size centered is about right for the A8 output display.

Also I am able to power both my USB sound bar and the ODV upscaler from it. (Free's up power socket space which is already pushed as I am running a VR gaming rig laptop and monitor next to my A8).

The controls on the Dell are also pretty useful.

(EDIT) Another reason for keeping it, (and also why I've not gone down the LCD TV route), is that I have a dual monitor articulated gas powered () arm setup on my desk. It allows 2 x monitors to be connected by Vesa 100 mounts and "float" over my desk - great given the lack of surface desk space after you factor in the laptop/monitor, 3 x A8s and the Dell ). So I needed a monitor anyway. (FYI It's this one and is highly recommended https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06ZYK2TQB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Finally there is a DVI input so if I ever do go down the Sophia 2 route that is handy.

 

Good luck with your Sophia 2 install. Your setup looks great.

 

@manterola thanks for your suggestion.

 

@Sugarland Ah no worries - I actually bought the Dell after Googling for monitors with S-video inputs. Then yesterday when it arrived and I had the realisation of the composite incompatibility, I searched the Atariage forum for any info about the 2007FPb and came across your post.  I guess I should have searched AtariAge before I purchased but I think it would have been snapped up if I'd waited any longer. Got it for a bargain price including shipping. As mentioned above I'll see when the S-video cable arrives what it looks like.

 

Ah - gotta say it's great to be back in the world of Atari after a 20 year break. Things are at a very interesting stage. Got me an SDrive Max, a Side3 (yet to be unwrapped - can't wait!). A Prince of Persia release is imminent () and I am obessed with the Rastacoverter thread and converting/posting my Rastaconverter images, (what an amazing piece of software and to see the A8's capable of such graphical/colour output!!). I've been rediscovering a load of Atari hardware, software, and vintage mags I totally forgot I had lurking the attic.

 

thanks again everyone - this site is great.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Beeblebrox
typos

[Sugarland]

4 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

 

Ah - gotta say it's great to be back in the world of Atari after a 20 year break. Things are at a very interesting stage. Got me an SDrive Max, a Side3 (yet to be unwrapped - can't wait!). A Prince of Persia release is imminent and I am obessed with posting my Rastaconverter images, (what an amazing piece of software). I've been pulling out a load of Atari hardware, software, and vintage mags I totally forgot I had. 

 

thanks again everyone - this site is great.

 

 

Welcome back!! Glad to have you here sharing the joys.    Good to know on the monitor.  They are good but not for PAL.

 

[Beeblebrox]

23 minutes ago, Sugarland said:

 

Welcome back!! Glad to have you here sharing the joys.    Good to know on the monitor.  They are good but not for PAL.

 

@Sugarland Thanks. Hey, just to illustrate here are a couple of pics showing my Windows laptop monitor (right) displaying rastaconverted images in the Altirra emulator, next to the Dell on the left plugged into my A8 320XE (modded 65XE) via ODV upscaler, DIN-Composite, HDMI-VGA, etc - outputting the same image, for comparrison. (The monitor arms are fantastic for just allowing me to keep them off the desk surface and effortlessly moved around )

 

Obviously the Altirra images on the right are far more vibrant -  (Altirra settings, modern laptop and the AOC LED monitor also enhances it) - but I am pretty happy with the images the A8/Dell is displaying. (I am hoping when the S-video cable arrives I'll gets a better more vibrant output overall - despite still having to go through all the kit before getting to the monitor. I'd love to see better reds - although I know the A8's struggle with reds on the whole - least (if I am correct) PAL A8s do).

 

I've also posted said images as downloadable XEXs below.  (The spiderman xex's kernel was kindly fixed by @drpeter here on the forum as it had display issues - (line error in one of the eyes shows on real hardware) - so I've posted that instead of the original). See post for more info should you be interested: 

 

 

 

tiaraeleditfsmincomplete14.xex spideystatue1croppedsmincomplete9_mod_PB.xex

[Mazzspeed]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Sugarland Thanks. Hey, just to illustrate here are a couple of pics showing my Windows laptop monitor (right) displaying rastaconverted images in the Altirra emulator, next to the Dell on the left plugged into my A8 320XE (modded 65XE) via ODV upscaler, DIN-Composite, HDMI-VGA, etc - outputting the same image, for comparrison. (The monitor arms are fantastic for just allowing me to keep them off the desk surface and effortlessly moved around )

 

Obviously the Altirra images on the right are far more vibrant -  (Altirra settings, modern laptop and the AOC LED monitor also enhances it) - but I am pretty happy with the images the A8/Dell is displaying. (I am hoping when the S-video cable arrives I'll gets a better more vibrant output overall - despite still having to go through all the kit before getting to the monitor. I'd love to see better reds - although I know the A8's struggle with reds on the whole - least (if I am correct) PAL A8s do).

 

I've also posted said images as downloadable XEXs below.  (The spiderman xex's kernel was kindly fixed by @drpeter here on the forum as it had display issues - (line error in one of the eyes shows on real hardware) - so I've posted that instead of the original). See post for more info should you be interested: 

 

 

 

tiaraeleditfsmincomplete14.xex 22.06 kB · 1 download spideystatue1croppedsmincomplete9_mod_PB.xex 22.08 kB · 3 downloads

IMO, the Dell is under saturated and the AOC is over saturated. Here's the result on my Sharp TV via svideo:

 

[Beeblebrox]

1 minute ago, Mazzspeed said:

IMO, the Dell is under saturated and the AOC is over saturated. Here's the result on my Sharp TV via svideo:

 

@Mazzspeed Sure, I very likely have my AOC/Windows setup slightly over saturated.  (Seems to work ok with my Windows laptop so haven't changed it. Although it's also probably something to do with Altirra's settings possibly being ramped up, (I have Altirra's bloom settings pushed up among others). See below.

 

In terms of the DELL/A8 setup I have eveything set as high as possible on the DELL and had a good play around with the settings. I am hoping with the addition of the S-video output from the A8 (when I get the cable), it'll improve the originating signal quality overall. Because it's currently coming out of the A8 via the DIN to Composite, then through the ODV upscaler to HDMI and then to VGA I suspect it's affected quite a bit along the way. I try to strike a balance in terms of the pixelation of the image also to avoid as much as poss the "chunky" look.  Red/Blue colours are looking great on your Sharp TV though - I am really encouraged in terms of S-video. Fingers crossed.

 

 

[Mazzspeed]

13 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Mazzspeed Sure, I very likely have my AOC/Windows setup slightly over saturated.  (Seems to work ok with my Windows laptop so haven't changed it. Although it's also probably something to do with Altirra's settings possibly being ramped up, (I have Altirra's bloom settings pushed up among others). See below.

 

In terms of the DELL/A8 setup I have eveything set as high as possible on the DELL and had a good play around with the settings. I am hoping with the addition of the S-video output from the A8 (when I get the cable), it'll improve the originating signal quality overall. Because it's currently coming out of the A8 via the DIN to Composite, then through the ODV upscaler to HDMI and then to VGA I suspect it's affected quite a bit along the way. I try to strike a balance in terms of the pixelation of the image also to avoid as much as poss the "chunky" look.  Red/Blue colours are looking great on your Sharp TV though - I am really encouraged in terms of S-video. Fingers crossed.

 

 

I was quite honestly shocked when I first set my 600XL up with this Sharp TV via svideo TBH, I wasn't expecting a picture that good!

 

When it comes to my desktop PC, I have Nvidia's digital vibrance setting cranked a couple of notches for a little more saturation.

[TGB1718]

11 hours ago, manterola said:

A good option is stopping by your closest thift store/flea market and get an old Lcd TV. Those come (usually) with plenty of input options, include speakers, some have 4:3 aspect ratio, and can get them as low as $10.

Very true, I have a Mikomi LCD TV, it has VGA, S-Video, Composite, 2 SCART connectors, UHF and Audio In

[Faicuai]

11 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Firstly the 4:3 aspect ratio is great and I get the 20" display overall

Good choice, ideal aspect reatio and display-surface, indeed (19"-20", so you have more latitude to place real A8 host around, while still being able to see the screen/s clearly, even with our aging, older eyes... ?

 

11 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Another reason for keeping it, (and also why I've not gone down the LCD TV route), is that I have a dual monitor articulated gas powered () arm setup on my desk. It allows 2 x monitors to be connected by Vesa 100 mounts and "float" over my desk

Now, THAT is really cool! Just checked out those mounts and they look pretty functional (just need to check if my twins VP950B monitors would handle such mounts,... but very nice. indeed).

 

It seems to me you are on the right path with your setup. It always depends on intended use and purpose, of course, but the reality is that the video-source interfaces are on the rise and proliferating on out desk (e.g RF, Composite, Y+C. Component, VGA, DVI, etc,) AND newer interfacing solutions like Sophia (DVI, replacing on-board GTIA) are first signs that we are marching towards true NTSC / PAL convergence, which will constitute a MAJOR milestone in the "future" of our retro-experience (sounds ironic, but it is!).  The ability to fire up any title, in any format, from same A8 host would mean integration of the whole software library and enabling NTSC users to enjoy PAL's higher spatial resolution, and PAL users to enjoy NTSC faster-paced, higher temporal-resolution (+ artifacting).

 

I know that day is coming, and for that, the ideal approach would be making sure the screens (LCDs or CRTs) are 50 hz / 60 hz compliant to begin with, and also abstract the screens (LCDs or CRTs) from most interfaces except DVI or HDMI (or VGA?), and handle the rest (more flexibly) outside, via good scalers or video-processors, so we can throw any legacy interface and any video format at it, as needed today or tomorrow.

 

Don't have your sweet mounts around, but here's my latest dual-monitor arrangement, for retro and PC/Windows: