Do you find yourself drifting away from the scene?

[Rocket Man]

I agree that the youtube scene has definitely changed and although I love guys like MJR, the social aspect of these youtube channels has diminished in favor of in video ads, patreon requests, superchats, and algorithm analysis to maximize views. It was a more intimate and friendly activity 8 or 10 years ago and I miss those times. I'm also not a fan of the e-begging and it seems everyone wants to open a video game museum and shills for donations. One of the few I don't mind doing this is the 8-bit Guy since he makes truly informative and entertaining videos with the equipment he gets in from viewers, and doesn't just show shit off and put it on a shelf.

 

Wasn't that awesome when he asked his fans to pay for his Summer Vacation? Such a cool fella... irony

[Keatah]

8-bit Guy asked for his disciples to pay for his vacation?

[deepthaw]

8-bit Guy asked for his disciples to pay for his vacation?

I think hes saying metaljesusrocks did that. I have no idea what anybody is talking about other than I like 8bit guy.

[AtariLeaf]

 

Wasn't that awesome when he asked his fans to pay for his Summer Vacation? Such a cool fella... irony

 

I must have missed that one.

[F34R]

Yeah, I agree with youtube in most ways already said. If people want to do it to earn a living, by all means I guess...

 

I barely broke a million views on mine entire channel, I don't ask for donations, and I refused to use sponsored gear given, and I don't do any monetization (not that it would matter with the little views anyways lol). I don't post videos that often either. Mostly I live stream of facebook with people in different groups. I do it for fun, not for money, free stuff, etc. I'm limited on income, but I still manage to buy most of the gear all these others that earn a ton of money get tossed to them with sponsors. I really lose respect for those that earn hundreds of thousands of dollars and still take sponsored gear. That's my personal take on it.

 

MJR, yeah, I haven't watched his videos since then...

Here is his explanation...

 

/shrugs

 

I am not moving away from anything though. I love my games of the past just as much as I did when they first game out in the late 80's and beyond.

Edited September 10, 2018 by F34R

[Rocket Man]

 

I must have missed that one.

 

I was giving you a hard time because you said you love the guy, while at the same time said, "I'm also not a fan of the e-begging and it seems everyone wants to open a video game museum and shills for donations." which is what that guy does in a nutshell.

 

With regard to the theme of the thread (sorry for getting us off track here): I used to enjoy watching a plethora of Gaming channels on Youtube, until most of them started with this Begging for money trend... it has gotten so bad that the majority of them do it and it sickens me, i.e. that aspect of the "Retro Community" - I have moved away from for the most part.

[Jess Ragan]

Like the old song says, "You can't get somethin' for nothin'." It costs money to get the products shown in the videos, money for the equipment to record the videos, and time to write the scripts and perform in the videos. They're investing all that effort in making the videos, and you're paying nothing to watch and be entertained by them. You're not obligated to pay for access to this content, but at the same time I can't begrudge the content makers for finding ways to break even on their investments. Endorsements give me that "not so fresh feeling" due to the possibility of a conflict of interest, but a brief Patreon request at the end of the video, along with a text scroll of everyone who's offered their support, does not seem unreasonable.

 

Look, I did YouTube reviews a decade ago, when the site was first getting popular. Some of those videos took most of a weekend to finish, and their production values were nowhere near what you're seeing on YouTube now. It's a hobby, yes, but it's also work, and YouTube adds to that burden by muting and demonetizing videos if you so much as sneeze. I don't do YouTube videos anymore, but I respect the people who deliver good content on a regular basis, and I understand that their content doesn't just appear out of thin air. They need support, and very few of them are as aggressive about it as public television (with its all-day pledge drives) or broadcast television (with eight minutes of commercials for every twenty-two minutes of entertainment).

[Rocket Man]

Like the old song says, "You can't get somethin' for nothin'." It costs money to get the products shown in the videos, money for the equipment to record the videos, and time to write the scripts and perform in the videos. They're investing all that effort in making the videos, and you're paying nothing to watch and be entertained by them. You're not obligated to pay for access to this content, but at the same time I can't begrudge the content makers for finding ways to break even on their investments. Endorsements give me that "not so fresh feeling" due to the possibility of a conflict of interest, but a brief Patreon request at the end of the video, along with a text scroll of everyone who's offered their support, does not seem unreasonable.

 

Look, I did YouTube reviews a decade ago, when the site was first getting popular. Some of those videos took most of a weekend to finish, and their production values were nowhere near what you're seeing on YouTube now. It's a hobby, yes, but it's also work, and YouTube adds to that burden by muting and demonetizing videos if you so much as sneeze. I don't do YouTube videos anymore, but I respect the people who deliver good content on a regular basis, and I understand that their content doesn't just appear out of thin air. They need support, and very few of them are as aggressive about it as public television (with its all-day pledge drives) or broadcast television (with eight minutes of commercials for every twenty-two minutes of entertainment).

 

It is a Hobby, not a job. No, it's not work unless you're in a professional setting. Public Television is another matter altogether.

[Jess Ragan]

So you're not enjoying yourself when you watch those videos? Not at all?

 

I mean, either way you're not obligated to pay anything, but you're making it sound like the content makers are moochers when it's the viewers who are getting something free of charge. Only a tiny fraction of YouTube users are ever able to make a living from their videos (and some of those, like big-chinned screamer Pewdiepie, are less deserving of that money than others), but I can't blame anyone who makes videos and tries to break even on their production. If you don't like that, don't contribute to their Patreons, but crowdfunding is the only viable means of recouping that initial investment.

[+Gemintronic]

YouTube is a platform. Some people have in fact made it a career. It's not cheap to meet standards that get sustained viewers - hobbyist or not.

 

The problem came when they decided to demonitize videos. The YouTube money goes away you bet YouTubers are going to "beg" for another way to be supported.

[Rocket Man]

So you're not enjoying yourself when you watch those videos? Not at all?

 

I mean, either way you're not obligated to pay anything, but you're making it sound like the content makers are moochers when it's the viewers who are getting something free of charge. Only a tiny fraction of YouTube users are ever able to make a living from their videos (and some of those, like big-chinned screamer Pewdiepie, are less deserving of that money than others), but I can't blame anyone who makes videos and tries to break even on their production. If you don't like that, don't contribute to their Patreons, but crowdfunding is the only viable means of recouping that initial investment.

 

Me enjoying myself doesn't entertain the main point.

 

They are literally mooching off of their viewers by attempting to make ad revenue from the views; so the viewers are in essence, paying the content makers by watching the video, absent of their decision to contribute via Patreon/etc. Really... being able to have a company such as Youtube host ones video, for free, frees the content maker from having to invest a substantial amount of funds, to perform the most important function of their "Youtube Business", which is to A. Host the video (which costs God knows how much in hosting fees/etc.) and B. To give the content maker access to millions and millions of potential viewers (i.e. potential customers, via their views, and by potential "Crowd Funding" as you called it).

 

YouTube is a platform. Some people have in fact made it a career. It's not cheap to meet standards that get sustained viewers - hobbyist or not.

 

The problem came when they decided to demonitize videos. The YouTube money goes away you bet YouTubers are going to "beg" for another way to be supported.

 

Actually, considering one doesn't have to foot the bill for hosting their videos, as well as the cost of driving millions and millions of potential viewers to said site where their "created content" is hosted... I'd say it's extremely cheap to attempt to make money with videos on Youtube.

[Keatah]

Well I'll be dipped in shit. It takes us weeks or months to save and prepare for a vacation. I'll be damned if I'm paying for someone else to go on a vacation to make videos to make more money and monetize even further.

[Jess Ragan]

And the content providers who don't have ads on their videos? Or don't have enough viewers for the ads to make a difference? What about people with ad block?

 

You're making the argument that nobody has to make videos, so let's apply that to YouTube. The site doesn't have to host user videos. They could become a streaming service like Netflix, or close down entirely to save bandwidth, like Vine did after Twitter bought it. YouTube chose to host user videos, and the users don't have any obligation to the site beyond respecting its terms of service. YouTube users aren't "mooching" from YouTube's bandwidth... it's offered freely, although users can subsidize YouTube by watching advertisements and purchasing movies. By the same token, you're under no obligation when you watch a YouTube user's video, but it is courteous to support that user, because in the vast majority of cases, advertising simply won't be enough. Beyond that, a YouTube user has far fewer resources available to them than the YouTube service.

 

I'm trying to be civil, even though some recent members of this site are trying very hard to put the "A" in AtariAge. I do think you're being short-sighted and a little ungrateful, though. I appreciate the content that people like Metal Jesus, the Lazy Game Reviewer, and Ashens make, and I personally feel it's out of line to tell them they can't find ways to make their content financially viable. I'm not talking profitable here; I mean making enough money to keep the lights on and the cameras rolling.

[Jess Ragan]

Also, here's an illustration of just how much content providers get from advertising on YouTube (read: none). Bots make false copyright claims and all advertising goes to companies that don't deserve it. Bach died in 1750, so his work falls squarely in the public domain. Yet multiple copyright claims were made on a recently performed piece of music written by a man who's been dead for centuries. This happens on YouTube all the time. If you think YouTube video creators are making loads of cash from advertising, you're quite wrong.

 

I'd love for Metal Jesus Rocks to be a part of this conversation, because he's well aware of the expenses of making a YouTube video, and can tell you how much it costs versus how much he gets from ads... if anything at all.

 

[Rocket Man]

Well I'll be dipped in shit. It takes us weeks or months to save and prepare for a vacation. I'll be damned if I'm paying for someone else to go on a vacation to make videos to make more money and monetize even further.

 

It ranges from silly shite like that to flakes asking people to help pay for cameras, so they can, "make more videos"... *cough* buy more games more like it. The whoring of it all is beyond annoying.

[Rocket Man]

And the content providers who don't have ads on their videos? Or don't have enough viewers for the ads to make a difference? What about people with ad block?

 

You're making the argument that nobody has to make videos, so let's apply that to YouTube. The site doesn't have to host user videos. They could become a streaming service like Netflix, or close down entirely to save bandwidth, like Vine did after Twitter bought it. YouTube chose to host user videos, and the users don't have any obligation to the site beyond respecting its terms of service. YouTube users aren't "mooching" from YouTube's bandwidth... it's offered freely, although users can subsidize YouTube by watching advertisements and purchasing movies. By the same token, you're under no obligation when you watch a YouTube user's video, but it is courteous to support that user, because in the vast majority of cases, advertising simply won't be enough. Beyond that, a YouTube user has far fewer resources available to them than the YouTube service.

 

I'm trying to be civil, even though some recent members of this site are trying very hard to put the "A" in AtariAge. I do think you're being short-sighted and a little ungrateful, though. I appreciate the content that people like Metal Jesus, the Lazy Game Reviewer, and Ashens make, and I personally feel it's out of line to tell them they can't find ways to make their content financially viable. I'm not talking profitable here; I mean making enough money to keep the lights on and the cameras rolling.

 

But we're not talking about people, who aren't attempting to make money from ad revenue, via views from their videos... as well as E-begging via Patreon/etc., are we.

 

You made the argument that E-begging was acceptable because making videos, "is a job". That was dismantled.

 

Disagreed. Without user created content, Youtube would flop. Advertisers spread their money on Youtube because of views. I imagine the majority of those views come from content created by users, not from streaming services. I bet Youtube's ad revenue, for their wannabe Netflix activities, is paltry compared to what their homegrown user content generates.

 

Wrong. That's exactly what Youtube users are doing when they upload a video and don't have to pay anything for hosting. For someone who doesn't generate a lot of views, it is entirely "mooching" off of Youtube. I'll never attempt to make ad revenue on Youtube or have anything to do with ads, therefore, it costs me absolutely nothing to use their service to host my videos. The reason it's offered freely is because Youtube hopes the user will generate a lot of views and enter an ad revenue contract, in effect turning a profit for them. For people like me, they make 'zero' money and I get an entirely free service, meaning I'm mooching off of Youtube.

 

What, like getting a real job...

 

Your last paragraph is simply you justifying your admiration for people who are guilty of E-begging. I never said they can't E-beg. It's a free country and I firmly believe in an Open Market Economy. By the same token, I have the right to voice my criticism of someone, same as you have a right to disagree.

[Rocket Man]

Also, here's an illustration of just how much content providers get from advertising on YouTube (read: none). Bots make false copyright claims and all advertising goes to companies that don't deserve it. Bach died in 1750, so his work falls squarely in the public domain. Yet multiple copyright claims were made on a recently performed piece of music written by a man who's been dead for centuries. This happens on YouTube all the time. If you think YouTube video creators are making loads of cash from advertising, you're quite wrong.

 

I'd love for Metal Jesus Rocks to be a part of this conversation, because he's well aware of the expenses of making a YouTube video, and can tell you how much it costs versus how much he gets from ads... if anything at all.

 

 

 

I don't mind if anyone makes or doesn't make money on Youtube: from E-begging to ad revenue, or even selling merchandise containing their name and face. It's their right to do so.

 

The major expense of "making a video" as I already covered in previous posts, is the hosting of said video/s, as well as the bandwidth that is used to view said videos. That cost being entirely negated, by utilizing Youtube to host ones content, is the main reason it's beyond silly to speak of, "expenses of making a YouTube video" as if there's any validity to that notion. All the other costs: software, hardware, ones time invested/etc. is all part of a love for a Hobby, or it should be imo. Past that, calling it a job is flakey because one is mooching off of Youtube, and calling it a job - that's my take on it. Others including yourself disagree... hell, I might be in the minority with this opinion. It wouldn't surprise me.

 

Look, I get it. You like the metal guy because of his video game videos. I think he's a flake for asking people for money to go on vacation, same as I think it's flakey to ask people to pay money, to see ones collection. I'm entitled to that opinion.

 

Enjoy your Youtubers, I'm not attempting to stop you. You've displayed your disagreement with my disdain, for the mentioned E-begging behavior, and I've thoroughly explained my reasoning behind the way I feel. Past this point, we're only going to traverse more circles.

 

 

Good day to you.

[Jess Ragan]

Suits me just fine.

[Austin]

I think YouTube monetization, at least in its current form since 2013, has killed off a lot of the channels I used to watch from Classic Game Room to Turbo Views. Same goes for patreon.

 

It ironically brings me a new appreciation for Irate gamer who did all the editing and special effects himself and basically almost never asked for money. He did it for fun and for his fans, who asked him if THEY COULD give him money. Now that's how it should be!

With Turbo Views (Chris B.), he still posts content semi regularly. The issue is YouTube is not a primary form of income for him. He is a stage actor by day and he's also heavily invested in the pinball scene as another hobby. It's hard to fit in video creation between all of that, but he still makes it work (he is putting together his next DVD set as I write this, actually). Monetization had nothing to do with his breaks between content, more so a little something we tend to call, "Real Life".

[JaguarVision]

With Turbo Views (Chris B.), he still posts content semi regularly. The issue is YouTube is not a primary form of income for him. He is a stage actor by day and he's also heavily invested in the pinball scene as another hobby. It's hard to fit in video creation between all of that, but he still makes it work (he is putting together his next DVD set as I write this, actually). Monetization had nothing to do with his breaks between content, more so a little something we tend to call, "Real Life".

Man Turbo Views is underated.

[AtariLeaf]

I'm sorry I brought it up

[derFunkenstein]

Capcom -- Monster Hunter and Ghost Trick are on iOS and work well with touchscreen controls.

 

SEGA Forever has a whole mess of Genesis games, some work better than others. The Sonic games are the Christian Whitehead remakes.

 

Capcom and SNK fighters are there but naturally work better with hard buttons.

 

There are tons of RPG and strategy games on there, which are more my speed nowadays. All the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy oldies are present.

 

I'm mainly doing what you might call casual. My main games right now

 

Lineage II Revolution (from the Guild Wars 2 people)

Six Ages (by the Dragon Pass people)

Tekken Mobile (akin to the Marvel or Injustice fighters)

Pianista (rhythm game)

Star Trek Timelines (card collecting)

Oddmar (slick platformer)

Reigns (card puzzle)

 

The more "hardcore" mobile games are why I bought one of those Moga bluetooth controllers. It clips to my phone and away I go. I recently upgraded to a Moto Z3 and there's a Moto Mod controller specifically for it that includes additional battery capacity to keep your phone charged while you play. Reviews on it have been pretty good and it can be had for less than MSRP so I've been contemplating picking one up.

 

edit: whoops, that's an old post, my bad.

Edited September 11, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[Tanooki]

 

The more "hardcore" mobile games are why I bought one of those Moga bluetooth controllers. It clips to my phone and away I go. I recently upgraded to a Moto Z3 and there's a Moto Mod controller specifically for it that includes additional battery capacity to keep your phone charged while you play. Reviews on it have been pretty good and it can be had for less than MSRP so I've been contemplating picking one up.

 

edit: whoops, that's an old post, my bad.

I had one of those moga's, didn't seem so bad at first but the model I had would run up against screwball compatibility problems. After that I got this steelseries free mobile device and it was smooth sailing picking up both on android and iOS. it's tiny but comfortable still thankfully and excellent for anything swipe play does a disservice to.

[TemplarXB]

I think the entire retro game environment was grown so much, both as once new systems become retro, and as more products are released. I find myself spending just as much time, but now focused on a smaller number of systems.

[Metal Jesus]

Seeing a topic like this makes me sad...but it's completely understandable. Making YouTube videos looks easy. And I make them look easy.

 

What people don't often realize that I now work 60-80 hours a week doing video production and social media. I actually work way harder now than I ever did at my 9 to 5 corporate help desk job! When I am not researching subjects, scheduling guests, capturing gameplay footage, shooting the video, photographing secondary B-roll footage, recording voice overs, editing the video, making thumbnails or A/B testing Titles, Tags and Descriptions... I am spending most of my time moderating 300-1,000 comments, emails, messages a day. Let me say that again: EVERY SINGLE DAY. Between the constant barrage of people wanting my attention on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon, my website or Discord... running a successful YouTube channel is more time consuming and challenging than any other job I've had in 35 years.

 

That said, it's a creative and rewarding job and I absolutely love it.

 

Is it a "hobby"? Fuck no. Not to me personally. I treat it with way more respect and seriousness than that.

 

The barrier to entry for YouTube is really low, so you can fart out a silly cat video or vlog about your lunch if you want, but I set the bar for my content way higher than that. Plus I want long term search engine results for years to come.

 

Some people seem to think that YouTube and these types of careers are a fad or joke. Let me ask you this:

 

Imagine the world 10 years from now:

1) Do you think smartphones and small computers in your pocket will go away any time soon?

2) Do you think searching on the internet will go away any time soon?

3) Do you think video on the internet will go away any time soon?

 

Right now, most people are cutting the cable tv cord as YouTube and the like are being built into every new device you buy, from the 4K HDTV, smartphone, car, computer and refrigerator. It aint going away and content creators like me are on the forefront of the movement. It's no longer a walled garden of NBC, CBS, ABC... and advertisers know this.... which is why History Channel has approached me to make original content for them.

 

I recently listened to a podcast with VJ Mark Goodman. Remember him from the first days of MTV? People were saying the same criticisms to MTV and the VJs back in the early 80s. Claims it was shitty TV, the VJs weren't "real" and who would wanna watch 5 min music videos all day!? They ended up changing the world.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Metal Jesus