The 1981 16K Atari 400. The first "affordable" real home computer

[+davidcalgary29]

But who (and by that I mean everyone who didn’t read Byte or Creative Computing) knew what a “real” home computer was in 1981? Cheapo units helped to define the genre, and the scope of what was possible, as much as an IBM PC did. Personally, Atari > Commodore, but The Commodores > Atari Teenage Riot.

[Osgeld]

That's the way I took it... REAL computers not toys...

My buddies dad had a 400 and had converted a star trek game over at his work, though text based.. to the 400... we played it forever!

Of course the odd letter was typed up on it and printed out as well. Then came the cartridge games.....

 

you play with toys and games ... just sayin

[_The Doctor__]

His dad said it wasn't possible to do this on the other 'home machines' at the time, and he was right. The VIC even as a toy that couldn't handle a simple port or a letter of any length was not considered useful, it was more of a curiosity. The 400 did these things.. the others did not, and certainly not at the prices we were talking about.

Edited September 22, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[Geister]

I bought my first computer when Atari dropped the price on the 400. It was around 81 or 82 and I got the 400 and one of the "Pack" that ATARI had available at the time. I think it was the Programmer pack to get the BASIC cartridge and the manuals. I bought the computer at an actual business computer store, and it sat beside CPM multi-terminal machines worth more than any six cars I owned back then. I bought a few magazines and a 410 program recorder at those stores, but they carried very little for the ATARI.

 

Later a computer store called Star Base open and I bought a 48K memory expansion and a B-Key upgrade; man was I glad I found that! I typed the first couple magazine games in on that membrane keyboard and the first game I ever typed, I didn't know the difference between the Enter and the Escape key, so I typed that game in twice. I think the tips of my fingers were flat for a year after that

 

I was aware of other computers at the time, but the Sinclairs were garbage compared to even an unexpanded 400. I considered them for a moment before buying the Atari, but then I considered and actually bought a number of options to get an actual programmable system. I bought a Magnavox Odyssey and the programming cartridge and when that disappointed, I bought an Atari 2600 and the programming cartridge with those 2 keypads you slid together. Boy did that make a 400 keyboard seem luxurious.

 

I might have considered the VIC-20 if I hadn't already bought the 400 before I ever heard off them. The keyboard on the VIC would have been tempting, but how do you down-shift to 8K and a BASIC that was almost useless after owning a 400 and Atari BASIC? At some point I managed to acquire a fully stuffed 800 and an 810, although how and where I can't remember. But later, trying to make ends meet I got a second job working at Sears in office supplies. I might have got the 800 and 810 there when the XL line came out and they had to clear inventory. The 1200XL looked pretty sexy next to the TI99/4A on display, but I didn't buy one because I was hearing bad things about compatibility.

 

I was never tempted to buy the TI, because the price was still pretty high and the software on the Atari was simply better and more widely available. Then the Commodore 64 came out and I wasn't interested because it didn't have much software at the time and the price was still pretty high. Before I left Sears, the 600XL and 800XL came out. So did the Coleco ADAM and that looked pretty interesting, but Sears only got 3 of them for the Christmas season. 3 went out before Xmas and 3 came back after Xmas...all broken. I lost any interest in the ADAM after that.

 

The Atari XL series and the C64 were everywhere after that. Nearly every department store carried both, and the TI hung on a little bit longer to appear next to them at K-Mart, etc. A couple years later and the XE was out so I bought an 800XL and 1050 disk drive as well on clearance at a Two Guys store in Bethlehem, PA. By that time the C64 had overtaken everyone in sales and the ever-present rumors of Atari's imminent demise were being heard at stores that stopped carrying them.

 

The rumor was often that Atari users were killing their own machine because of pirating, and there was a lot of truth to that, but Commodore users pirated just as much! I guess the larger number of initial sales made up for it.

 

That initial 400 got me into computing. Later Atari's, experiments in hardware hacking (home made memory upgrades), and programming experience got me a career in IT at a local company where I specialized in laboratory automation. I have those cheap Atari 400's to thank for that. I'm not sure that would have happened if I'd gotten frustrated by lesser computers like the Timex and the VIC.

[carlsson]

Earlier this year, Michael Tomczyk made it very clear on Facebook which model he thought was the first affordable home computer, and for sure it wasn't the Atari 400.

 

It is notable that Atari did cut the price on the 400 after the VIC-20 had been announced. It is true that it took quite a while between the announcement and that the VIC hit the stores, while of course the 400 already was around and able to sell at its lower price.

 

As for what you could use a VIC for besides gaming, it seemed to be used to interface with various lab equipment due to its simple design. It also was popular among ham operators for RTTY with multiple solutions. Then again perhaps people used Ataris for that too?

 

At this point in time, I respect everyone's opinions. If you consider the VIC to be a toy with a full size keyboard but low amount of RAM and low resolution, but consider the 400 to be a worthy all-purpose home computer with a touch type keyboard, adequate amount of RAM and much better graphics, that is fine. I believe back then most people looking for a home business computer would consider both to be toys. Perhaps they would consider the 800 at whatever it cost back then ($800 down from $1050?), or simply get an Apple II or wait for the IBM PC.

[_The Doctor__]

gee no bias, I mean he guided the creation and development and has no interest in propagating how great the thing they created was.. pfffft

he just marketed the hell out of it and put one in every Kmart, and Popsicle stand that would take one...

They gave em away get them the hell out of their stores... once they realized their mistake. Just because a billion of something is put out doesn't mean it was any good, look at all the movies that exist, dumped in bins all around the world, b movies or less ... zillions of copies, and how much is worth the space it takes up.... not many... locusts take over fields across a country.... does that make them real good? I mean there's a lot of em. I think I'd rather have the crops they destroyed.

 

the true testament was to marketing and carpet saturation bombing of the masses, that trash has to end up somewhere. not very useful. Plastic shopping sacks were more useful than the VIC

did he consider something else as the first? I hadn't heard it. It's possible. Personally eco warriors should have collected that whole crew up, and dealt with them, it's worse than plastic bags floating in the wind, trees, rivers, and oceans! LOL

 

wow maybe I was wrong... maybe there were far more VICs in town... just everyone was hiding them due to embarrassment that their parents didn't know any better and bought one. Hidden deep in a closet, basement, or corner. Covered up in clothing to conceal it's presence. Certainly never spoken of. Pet rocks got more attention that's for sure! And they may have sold more of those than the VIC. I mean they sold 1.5 million pet rocks out of the gate. And people actually talked about and showed off their pets rocks!

 

Thanks Gary Dahl... you taught us more in your short life about how silly people can be than most could over the generations that came later!

Edited September 22, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[+DrVenkman]

Earlier this year, Michael Tomczyk made it very clear on Facebook which model he thought was the first affordable home computer, and for sure it wasn't the Atari 400.

 

I listened to Tomcyk's interview for (I think!) the Floppy Days podcast. He's sure an engaging speaker and tells a great story, but he's clearly got both some selective memory and quite-understandable bias. He's also more than a bit of an egotist who likes to hear himself talk, lol. Take everything he says with a big ol' serving of NaCl and you'll get a much better view of objective truth.

[+slx]

Not to forget the clearly space-age styling of the 400 which looked as if it might fly away any minute

 

I had my first ˋcomputing experience on a ZX-81 (Timex 1000) borrowed from a friend who was on summer vacation, hooked up to the kitchen TV, standing bent over a kitchen cabinet (or sitting sideways). A friend had a VIC20 at about the same time which felt a lot better.

 

Had the luck to get an 800 for Christmas, so I only experienced the 400 keyboard on a friends machine. Better than the Sinclair, which had no feedback at all. We remained the only classic Atari users and only after the appearance of the 800XL did our ranks grow. There might have been more C64 users after a while (including my VIC20 friend), but we Atarians mostly kept to ourselves.

[youxia]

Meanwhile, in 1982 Europe...

 

 

The whole debate about which one was a "real" computer sounds a bit silly to me. Everybody knew they're not as powerful as their (much more expensive) big brothers and nobody cared. They were certainly not just toys: people did use them for business or work but above all they have sparked the bedroom coding revolution, something relevant back then (simple but innovative games) and now too (The Witcher 3 and others written by folk who grew up with these machines).

[ACML]

Not silly

 

Meanwhile, in 1982 Europe...

 

 

The whole debate about which one was a "real" computer sounds a bit silly to me.

Not silly, but the whole point of the thread. I know this is an exaggeration, but it's like arguing all cars are the same because they have four tires, run on gas and have a steering wheel. A Kia is not a Nissan Maxima. In 1981, the VIC-20 was a KIA and a 400 by comparison was the Maxima. The Apple II and 800 were BMWs. If someone was using a VIC-20 or TI-99 for real applications, good on them, but I think they were few and far between. My whole point was that an affordable "real" computer needed to the have the prerequisites of performance, features, and price. The VIC and the TI only had one of those. The 400, save the membrane keyboard, could perform amazingly for a home computer, had awesome technology (dedicated video and sound chips, plug 'n play SIO) at a price half that of its contemporaries.

[Osgeld]

A Kia is not a Nissan Maxima.

 

 

yea my kia made it past 60K miles without its transmission taking a huge dump (Nissan's CVT transmission has a very short lifespan in general for those playing along)

[_The Doctor__]

As to your KIA comment-

 

My wife and her family bought brand new KIA's and a Hyundai- her cam shaft shattered in the first year, rear brake cylinder froze on driver side the next year, so she got rid of that green hatch back , her moms Red RIO? various issues of air conditioning, transmission, drive ability, stumble.. and on and on till they got rid of that! The sedan....well that POS.... starter... some sort of coil, caliper, and general electrical gremlins...

 

They all got real cars after that 2 and 3/4 year span of HE-double-hockey sticks.... Yeah KIA's were the bestest ever.... maybe later on they weren't vic 20's, but even dressed up as 64's today.. well lets just say bread-bins stacked like cord wood at the repair center said it all.... but hey your probably got one with a supe'd up sodium filled valves upgrade done to it... and oh wait. yeah they turned out to be ticking time bombs. Never mind.... KIA's have been BMW, Volvo, and every other car killers from the start. I mean at least one of them worked just fine.... I betcha it had a vic 20 under the hood controlling it all

 

I love it when exceptions to the rule are quoted to disprove rules with exceptions...

Edited September 23, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[Osgeld]

[_The Doctor__]

 

yea my kia made it past 60K miles without its transmission taking a huge dump (Nissan's CVT transmission has a very short lifespan in general for those playing along)

this little gem, to play along- is what the blather was about, in deference to the KIA quality you are using in your argument. The quality of most kia's had been lacking for so long..

Just because my Ford Focus has over 240,000 miles on it doesn't mean it was the best car ever made. it did need brakes, some rotors, and spark plugs after all.... not to mention pesky oil changes!

Edited September 23, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[Osgeld]

it wasnt an argument, it was a smart ass comment

 

your incoherent rant was not needed and I still cant make out what your word vomit actually means

Edited September 23, 2018 by Osgeld

[_The Doctor__]

nor yours, must have been to hard for you to follow... it's okay, I have days like that... although it's funny how you want to have your say but tell others theirs isn't needed. Ah the trademarks of a smart ass....

Edited September 23, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[+kheller2]

Can we all just get back to Atari already? This bickering over brands is stupid. We all know what our favorite brand is.

Getting back to the concept of this thread: 16k was just enough to run somewhat office productive software on a computer sold and marketed for the home user.

[youxia]

Not silly, but the whole point of the thread. I know this is an exaggeration, but it's like arguing all cars are the same because they have four tires, run on gas and have a steering wheel. A Kia is not a Nissan Maxima.

 

Kia is not a Nissan Maxima, but it is a "real" car all the same. Arguing it isn't, because of some artificial set of conditions made up by yourself is silly - eg stating that 16K being the entry point to realness. Are you not aware it sounds exactly the same as the people who owned the "BMWs" saying that all the other micros, including 400/800/c64/etc were toys and not real computers?

 

Saying that 400 in 1981 was an awesome computer with decent specs and good price is perfectly fine, because it was. Expanding into how it was the only "real" computer compared to its peers is silly. And going further into fantasy what-if land in which 400 was the catalyst and sole reason for the whole micro-revolution, and how we wouldn't even have any Commodores or ZX Spectrums without it - is just plain ridiculous.

 

Now I get it this is Atari Age and there's lots of people with personal experiences and very strong sentiments towards this brand , but nevertheless, 4 decades later I think we could all afford to be a bit more reasonable than our early tribal selves.

[_The Doctor__]

I don't know.... they say the VolksWagon Bug was the first affordable car that reliably move people for the least amount of money... It was the 'peoples car' and a great number of people and countries stand by that. they say it was the first real affordable car for common people. Certainly Henry Ford might take issue with that... but then again half a world away and it could be true in both places.

 

Now to the heart of the matter, you know what he is getting at, and the name of the thread says it all,

 

His point was valid, and essentially correct. Always the same with the commodore crew. Most people were honest about it back in then, When I went to a computer group across the river.. the VIC owner basically drooled over the other machines and all but stated his vic was pretty useless. Go forward all these years and suddenly it was the best thing ever? Nah.. it doesn't work that way.

 

Real is a way of saying things where I live today... people say it's for real, lets get real, it's the real deal, that watch is real!... maybe it doesn't translate the same way elsewhere.

 

So if ya wanna re word it ..

In 1981 the 16k Atari 400 was the first real affordable home computer capable of doing a number of useful tasks for common everyday people.

 

Parents used them for writing letters, simple accounting, the off game as well as keeping the kids busy. Even learned to program useful stuff.

Paper boys kept track of their routes and money etc, and well lets face it more games! and the dreaded homework... school papers etc.

 

These basic tasks weren't possible at an affordable prices until the 400's rolled out at the lower prices.

Edited September 24, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[adam242]

Not silly

 

Not silly, but the whole point of the thread. I know this is an exaggeration, but it's like arguing all cars are the same because they have four tires, run on gas and have a steering wheel. A Kia is not a Nissan Maxima. In 1981, the VIC-20 was a KIA and a 400 by comparison was the Maxima. The Apple II and 800 were BMWs. If someone was using a VIC-20 or TI-99 for real applications, good on them, but I think they were few and far between. My whole point was that an affordable "real" computer needed to the have the prerequisites of performance, features, and price. The VIC and the TI only had one of those. The 400, save the membrane keyboard, could perform amazingly for a home computer, had awesome technology (dedicated video and sound chips, plug 'n play SIO) at a price half that of its contemporaries.

 

The 400 and 800 were both BMWs, just one was a 3-series and the other a 7-series. Same DNA in both, just one with a bit more features and luxurious trim.

Edited September 25, 2018 by adam242

[ClausB]

My local salesman knew what a deal the 400 was and let me in on it, even though it was earlier (12/80) and more expensive ($600) and had less RAM (8K). It was the Educator package, though they agreed to swap out the educational software for a Star Raiders cart. Were those extra few months worth $200? Yep.

[Kyle22]

Yes, a 99/4 (a) is still a slow, ugly so called 16 bit toy of an ugly machine. The only thing it had that was good was the speech chip. That wasn't too bad. If we had the SC-01 clocked by PoKey, the 14xx series could SING.

 

TMS9900 really sucks. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TMS9900

[Casey]

Yes, a 99/4 (a) is still a slow, ugly so called 16 bit toy of an ugly machine. The only thing it had that was good was the speech chip. That wasn't too bad. If we had the SC-01 clocked by PoKey, the 14xx series could SING.

 

TMS9900 really sucks. Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TMS9900

How does reading this identify ways that the TMS9900 “really sucks” ?