Atari 8-Bit as a Legitimate Business Machine

[JamesD]

FWIW, 80 columns wasn't a standard Apple II product until the IIe was released in 1983, and it required the 128K upgrade or 80 column upgrade card.
80 column cards were 3rd party before that and I remember there were some compatibility issues.
The card in my II+ (Viewmax 80?) is from... 1981(?). So Atari had a couple years to deal with this.

[JamesD]

 

The IBM PS/2 Model 80 came out in '87. 16mhz 386, 1.44MB floppy, 200mb hard disk, VGA on-board, and a Model M keyboard. Yeah, I think the Atari was out-gunned.

I'm pretty sure 12-14MHz 286's were available for a couple years before that.

I think I sold one to a guy to run his pharmacy in 1985.

[Gunstar]

In answer to my original question, I suppose that, in the time period during which the Atari 8-bit was as good a computer as any other, the ubiquity of the office desktop had not yet been established. If it had, however, how cool would it have been to work in an office that had an 800XL on every desk, tricked out with an ICD MIO, a pair of 1050's. Add a Star NX-1000 or a Panasonic KXP-1091i and you have computing nirvana.

Funny you should mention a Panasonic KXP-1091i (are you sure that's not KX-P1091i?)in all of that too. I used my Atari in college with a KX-P2023. I still have it, just found it and pulled it out of storage last week, and am in the process of restoring it. I also still have the Supra Microprint interface I used with it. My system will be 512K 1200XL, 2 Happy 1050's, CA-2001 drive with CP/M, SpartaDOS X with 8G CF on MyIDE 2 and KX-P2023 24-pin for basics. A dream machine for my home office.

 

In imagining a large office environment with tricked out Atari's like you said, I have to imagine it with 800's or 1200XL's though, sorry, I just hate the look of the 800XL with the console-like cartridge slot on top. It's too much like a toy, even worse if the office app being used is on cartridge sticking out the top!

 

Mine is severely yellowed after 5+ years in non-climate controlled storage, and I'm sure needs some mechanical work too. So it's getting the restoration and make-over, though I'm not retro-brighting, I'm going to paint it to match my XL system. The pic below I pulled off the net, the pic of the manual is mine.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gunstar

[+Stephen]

Funny you should mention a Panasonic KXP-1091i (are you sure that's not KX-P1091i?)in all of that too. I used my Atari in college with a KX-P2023. I still have it, just found it and pulled it out of storage last week, and am in the process of restoring it. I also still have the Supra Microprint interface I used with it. My system will be 512K 1200XL, 2 Happy 1050's, CA-2001 drive with CP/M, SpartaDOS X with 8G CF on MyIDE 2 and KX-P2023 24-pin for basics. A dream machine for my home office.

 

In imagining a large office environment with tricked out Atari's like you said, I have to imagine it with 800's or 1200XL's though, sorry, I just hate the look of the 800XL with the console-like cartridge slot on top. It's too much like a toy, even worse if the office app being used is on cartridge sticking out the top!

 

Mine is severely yellowed after 5+ years in non-climate controlled storage, and I'm sure needs some mechanical work too. So it's getting the restoration and make-over, though I'm not retro-brighting, I'm going to paint it to match my XL system. The pic below I pulled off the net, the pic of the manual is mine.

Awesome. Some years ago I bought a Panasonic KXP-2135 from ebay. Put in a new ribbon, but the print head is pretty worn on it. Shame really, as I'd printed hundreds of pages with it. I don't think it's something I'd want to attempt a repair on.

[Gunstar]

Awesome. Some years ago I bought a Panasonic KXP-2130 from ebay. Put in a new ribbon, but the print head is pretty worn on it. Shame really, as I'd printed hundreds of pages with it. I don't think it's something I'd want to attempt a repair on.

I'm hoping it mostly still works and just needs a good cleaning, oiling, ribbon rejuvenation (I have two, but I'm sure are dried out), and the rest hopefully will just be cosmetic. If it seems to have serious issues, I'll have to rethink it. I've also been thinking about finding an old model laser printer with a Centronics parallel port to hook-up instead too. But right now I like the idea of an old 24-pin with near letter quality on pin-wheel paper This one has a "quite" mode that isn't much louder than a cheap ink-jet printer.

[Gunstar]

I think one type of business that should use vintage computers for business are retro computer electronics shops. Stand by what you sell! Put your money where you mouth...err, business, is...Dot-matrix receipt print-outs (Doesn't O'Reilly Auto and other auto part shops still use dot-matirx receipts on pin-wheel paper? It sure seems like it), maybe an 820 40-column printer if you don't want to give out full page ones. But keep all the books and inventory on a vintage computer, etc. That's exactly what I'd do if I owned a vintage computer/electronics shop (mom & pop style). But then, I already use one for my contracting business, so...

 

For me, running the majority of my small business on my Atari from a home office isn't always the most convenient or easiest by today's PC standards, but there's also, just as often a joy in the simplicity of design and getting away from Windows and all it's ongoing and potential headaches too. And the security and virus issues are non-existent. And it makes doing the paper work so much more fun because I get to use my Atari.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gunstar

[Bill Loguidice]

I think one type of business that should use vintage computers for business are retro computer electronics shops. Stand by what you sell! Put your money where you mouth...err, business, is...Dot-matrix receipt print-outs (Doesn't O'Reilly Auto and other auto part shops still use dot-matirx receipts on pin-wheel paper? It sure seems like it), maybe an 820 40-column printer if you don't want to give out full page ones. But keep all the books and inventory on a vintage computer, etc. That's exactly what I'd do if I owned a vintage computer/electronics shop (mom & pop style). But then, I already use one for my contracting business, so...

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion with some on here, but I'd never go back to vintage computers and software for any of my productivity or business needs these days. There's too much power, comfort, and safety in modern technology and related services. Vintage computing is great fun on a hobby/experimental basis for me, but that's it. I used it for that other stuff back when that's all that there was and, while I treasure those experiences in many ways, I have zero interest in reliving it (and in particular, the negatives).

[fujidude]

I agree with others about Atari's image as a company who is about "fun and games," rather than "serious business," likely hurt them plenty. Perhaps if Atari early on, had created a spin off company, or at least a trademark brand specifically for a business oriented line, then maybe they could have gotten some earlier momentum. Something like having Atari Gaming and then ACBD (Atari Computing & Business Division).

[Gunstar]

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion with some on here, but I'd never go back to vintage computers and software for any of my productivity or business needs these days. There's too much power, comfort, and safety in modern technology and related services. Vintage computing is great fun on a hobby/experimental basis for me, but that's it. I used it for that other stuff back when that's all that there was and, while I treasure those experiences in many ways, I have zero interest in reliving it (and in particular, the negatives).

I edited my post above while you replied. I give my reasons why in the new paragraph above. I disagree about "more safety" strongly though; I can back stuff up too, and the other reasons are revealed in my post above.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

I agree with others about Atari's image as a company who is about "fun and games," rather than "serious business," likely hurt them plenty. Perhaps if Atari early on, had created a spin off company, or at least a trademark brand specifically for a business oriented line, then maybe they could have gotten some earlier momentum. Something like having Atari Gaming and then ACBD (Atari Computing & Business Division).

With the 400/800 line, Atari at first advertised them as "Personal Computers," not business and not home. later on and definitely by the time of the 1200XL, they switched to calling them home computers, which makes a difference if you want to sell them to business too. Then by the time Jack came around, Atari referred to them as "personal computers" again, like Jack said "We don't make business computers, we don't make home computers, we make personal computers, people can use them for whatever they like/want" (maybe not exact quote, that's from memory) Atari should have stuck with "personal computers all along" and the same attitude toward them at Jack did, they did at first.

 

I just think it's better, with a prior history as an entertainment company, that marketing a personal computers consistently would have helped them to overcome the "fun and games" image more. constant marketing that includes everything it can do. (again, early ads did this somewhat)They also probably should have separated into distinct divisions of the company as you say..

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gunstar

[Bill Loguidice]

I agree with others about Atari's image as a company who is about "fun and games," rather than "serious business," likely hurt them plenty. Perhaps if Atari early on, had created a spin off company, or at least a trademark brand specifically for a business oriented line, then maybe they could have gotten some earlier momentum. Something like having Atari Gaming and then ACBD (Atari Computing & Business Division).

 

I'm just not sure if Atari or any company really could have done much of anything other than buy time. The move is almost always to standardization (obvious benefits), so it's difficult to see how anything could have stemmed the tide of PC compatibles. Probably a more realistic move (and alternate history) would have been for the Atari 8-bit series to somehow dominate in the home the way that the C-64 eventually came to.

[+Stephen]

Well, at least there's one fun thing I can do on my Atari with that Panasonic (edited my post - it's actually the colour KX-P2135). I can print a 12 foot long (or 250 if I want) page banner using fanfold paper and Print Shop. Why is there no modern alternative?

[Gunstar]

Well, at least there's one fun thing I can do on my Atari with that Panasonic (edited my post - it's actually the colour KX-P2135). I can print a 12 foot long (or 250 if I want) page banner using fanfold paper and Print Shop. Why is there no modern alternative?

because we don't use streaming pin-wheel paper anymore?

[Bill Loguidice]

Well, at least there's one fun thing I can do on my Atari with that Panasonic (edited my post - it's actually the colour KX-P2135). I can print a 12 foot long (or 250 if I want) page banner using fanfold paper and Print Shop. Why is there no modern alternative?

 

I think the modern alternative is to go down to Staples, Fed Ex, or an equivalent officer store/shipper and just get something like that printed on demand. I can't think of a DIY option like back in the day, though.

[Gunstar]

Yes, of course I don't do everything for my business with my Atari. Fliers and promotionals, and business cards and stuff like that I either order through Vistaprint on-line on my PC or go to Kinkos, or someplace like Bill mentioned. But physical paperwork for the customer is configured to print out on standard ready-made forms (I have a nice stamper to stamp the company name on them) I by at Kinkos or Office Depot or where ever. I've been using APE and my PC's deskjet for this for years, but intend to start doing it with my Panasonic printer.(except for business letters, they will still be printed on the inkjet through APE) For some other things I am forced to still use my PC for the business, but my book keeping and record keeping and business letters (paper with company letterhead) are done on the Atari. Maybe I'll take pictures of how I do it some day...

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gunstar

[pixelmischief]

Something like having Atari Gaming and then ACBD (Atari Computing & Business Division).

 

Yeah. They could have even played up a mock rivalry between the two. Something like the thing Apple did with, "Hi, I'm a Mac" and "Hi, I'm a PC" stuff.

[+Larry]

Some interesting stories in this topic. My little story, briefly...

 

In 1983, it essentially required divine intervention for anyone at our plant to get an IBM PC -- it was an expensive "Capital Item". Yet we had need for a computer in our tooling section to track pattern wear and dimensional conformance of our castings. We were able to purchase an Atari 800XL, Indus GT, numeric keypad and a few other odds and ends which were relatively inexpensive, and did not rise to the level of being a capital investment. I wrote the custom software (a perfect application for Basic) to track dimensions, print reports, and do statistical analysis of our dimensional conformance. We used that systems for a maybe 8 years, until we got all new equipment which was completely "computerized" from the manufacturer.

[pixelmischief]

I wrote the custom software [in] Basic [and] we used that systems for...8 years.

 

When I read posts like this, and I read them often, I am reminded of how powerful BASIC actually is, and still can be. I think many people, myself included, are tempted to disregard BASIC as being something too slow to be useful. Lots of talk around here reinforces this as would-be game programmers are told to ignore BASIC and jump straight to assembler. I say, however, start with BASIC and use it until your projects outgrow it. There's a lot to love in there.

[ClausB]

Print more than 40 characters per line using graphics? Why would anyone want to do that?

 

Here's why:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/223411-1981-sio-modem

 

And don't even get me started with the 400, with only 1 cart slot and a horrible keyboard.

 

The 400 had the best possible flat keyboard with raised edges and tactile and audio feedback. It made the 400 an affordable entry into the wonderful world of Atari.

[Gunstar]

 

When I read posts like this, and I read them often, I am reminded of how powerful BASIC actually is, and still can be. I think many people, myself included, are tempted to disregard BASIC as being something too slow to be useful. Lots of talk around here reinforces this as would-be game programmers are told to ignore BASIC and jump straight to assembler. I say, however, start with BASIC and use it until your projects outgrow it. There's a lot to love in there.

I'm just dipping my toes in so far, but I would imagine that something like compiled Turbo Basic would be pretty damn fast. Maybe still not fast enough to do all the chase-the-beam/clock/cycle graphics with all the modern techniques we see in new games and demos, but for utilitarian purposes, perfectly effective. For example, once I get to the point I am able, I plan on making a graphic art program that finally incorporates the option to choose any hardware, mixed mode, or software graphic mode the Atari can do and many tools and options far beyond Micro Illustrator or even art programs like Rambrandt that already blew-away Micro Illustrator. It may require some machine language subroutines to do some of the graphic modes, but overall I think I can do it with Turbo Basic and compile it into a runtime package for better speed. Or maybe Action!

Edited December 21, 2018 by Gunstar

[pixelmischief]

...best possible flat keyboard...

 

Is that like "best possible rash" or "best possible ass-kicking". No, no, no, no, NO! There is no such thing as a "best possible" membrane keyboard!

[pixelmischief]

There is no such thing as a "best possible" membrane keyboard!

I take that back. The best possible keyboard is the one that...

 

made the 400 an affordable entry into the wonderful world of Atari.

I had missed your point.

[Gunstar]

 

Yeah. They could have even played up a mock rivalry between the two. Something like the thing Apple did with, "Hi, I'm a Mac" and "Hi, I'm a PC" stuff.

I can imagine a commercial now, a mock rivalry in a commercial with a teenager on one side with an 800 declaring it's the best computer for gaming, and a button-up-business type guy on the other declaring it's an incredible business machine, and they do a back and forth showing it's abilities with both. It might be expanded to have a teacher type step in and say it's the best educational computer and show what it can do there, finally someone steps in, the Atari "representative" and say, "no, it's a Personal Computer, it's the best one for whatever you want to do with it" and maybe some more over-all examples.

[JamesD]

Here's why:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/223411-1981-sio-modem

 

...

It was sarcasm, but thanks for the link.

[peteym5]

I think the Atari 800 and 800XL could had made good business machines because of the faster CPU than apple. Could handle spread sheets, data base, and word processing. Has some graphics options can help enhance the display, Antic 3 (Descender Mode), Display List manipulation different text modes of blank line between each row of text. Player/Missile graphics can be used for cursors or different background for text on screen. Plus have smooth horizontal and vertical scrolling. Isn't there a word processor that scrolls horizontally over a 80 column page?

 

As mentioned the Atari ran Visicalc and SpeedCalc just fine. It would had been low cost compared to getting a PC or other computer system in the early 1980s. The big question is how would a business use the machine. Every business has different functions they would require from a computer. Someone may use the graphics ability of the machine to set up a display to draw people into a store.