spencerhm Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hello all. I searched for this in Hardware and didn't see anything when searching on Windows 98Se. Hope I'm not repeating. I resurrected my Win98Se box and cannot figure out why I can't get my Cendyne CD-RW drive to write to CD-R or CD-RW discs. I tried Nero, ImgBurn, and Magic Creator 5+ and nothing works. It's a brand new Cendyne CD-RW I opened from my stock. On PC boot my bios shows => CD-ROM Identified after doing an "Auto" when setting it up in the bios. Currently it's hooked up to my mobo 2ndary IDE interface as master, and it's the only device on it. I did try the IDE interface on my Sound Blaster (PnP) card too. Neither interface will allow the software to see the drive when starting the software. I can boot a DOS CD fine, it can read CD-RW and CD-R discs fine, and it can read other program CDs fine. However, if I didn't load the DOS real mode drivers (sbide.sys and mscdex) in the config.sys and autoexec.bat files then Win98Se would never show a CD drive in File Explorer. I tried a few other CD drives but nothing will allow me to write to them. Any ideas? I looked all over the Internet for the Creative Labs MK4214 CD-RW Blaster 8432 but nowhere did it show up. Thinking if I find this drive and hook it up to the Sound Blaster card's interface it would work. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 WHY all the space after your post? Come on now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 There used to be a "Frog ASPI" driver that helped with CD burning on 95 machines. But, the honest answer is you need the exact CD that came with the drive for your best chance of success. Actually, breaking down and buying a SCSI card and SCSI CD burner might be the way to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't know the vintage of the Cendyne CD hardware, but if you're trying to run a newish device that didn't exist when Win98 was a thing, there probably aren't hardware drivers for all of its functions. Agreed that the original installation media or the generic ASPI software are a step in the right direction ...but sounds like you'd be better off with a difference device and putting this one into a newer machine. Now that I think of it, the only optical media I've handled on my computer lately has been imagery from MRI scans and XRays. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 WHY all the space after your post? Come on now. "Come on now" hmm I apologize; however I do not have a clue why all the "space after your post." I previewed the post prior to posting and didn't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 There used to be a "Frog ASPI" driver that helped with CD burning on 95 machines. But, the honest answer is you need the exact CD that came with the drive for your best chance of success. Actually, breaking down and buying a SCSI card and SCSI CD burner might be the way to go. Yeah I've been looking at scsi cards and drives on ebay. Wow they're pricey, but I did find a few not too bad. I don't mind shelling out say $100 but more than that - neh. I'll just enjoy the box with my old Dragon's Lair game. Thanks for the reply! I'll search for the Frog ASPI driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I don't know the vintage of the Cendyne CD hardware, but if you're trying to run a newish device that didn't exist when Win98 was a thing, there probably aren't hardware drivers for all of its functions. Agreed that the original installation media or the generic ASPI software are a step in the right direction ...but sounds like you'd be better off with a difference device and putting this one into a newer machine. Now that I think of it, the only optical media I've handled on my computer lately has been imagery from MRI scans and XRays. Sigh. Yeah I think I'll give the ASPI a try. I don't have anything to lose. I've got a clone of the drive, so just in case I get a virus or crash it with some bad DLL I can always go back and use my clone. Since experimenting with this I thought it would be a good idea to make a bootable Win98 diskette in case I have to go back to an old DLL file. Thanks for your response. And sorry for all the space. I honestly do not know what happen! I did preview before the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Yeah I've been looking at scsi cards and drives on ebay. Wow they're pricey, but I did find a few not too bad. I don't mind shelling out say $100 but more than that - neh. I'll just enjoy the box with my old Dragon's Lair game. Thanks for the reply! I'll search for the Frog ASPI driver. You are probably just shooting yourself in the foot. If you really want a CR-RW with Windows 9X you'll need to find the right driver as it appears you have it configured as CD-ROM not a CD-R nor CR-RW. It is almost impossible to know which device driver is needed or if it even exists unless you have driver working on the same hardware. If you can get working on a modern OS that may give you a clue, but again certainly no guarantee the same brand existed with Windows 9X or would even work. CR-RW was pretty new at the time and there were no "standards" yet, just like very early USB devices that needed a special usb device driver .. long before the USB Mass Storage driver became the standard for all USB storage. I still have an ancient USB drive from about '95 and it to this day requires a special device driver as it does not use USB mass storage. I'm actually quite shocked MS has a modern driver built in Windows 7 for it. Note that driver does not work in Windows 10 and Windows 10 does not have a driver for it like Windows 7. Anyway you could get very lucky and a default Windows 9X might work , but I surely would bet against it. Seriously Windows 9X is an extremely poor choice for many reasons these days. Old games from that time run better on plain DOS than Windows 9X. Yes there's a short period of time where Windows 9X may be needed on bare metal for certain games. Regardless you can run Windows 9X in a VM and your CR-RW will very likely work fine. I know my CR-RW from my decade old laptop worked fine with Linux host OS and accessing in a Windows 95 VM. Edited January 17, 2019 by thetick1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) "Come on now" hmm I apologize; however I do not have a clue why all the "space after your post." I previewed the post prior to posting and didn't see it. Well all those spaces are still there. What OS and browser did you use to post ? Just do an edit from a common updated modern PC browser (Chrome, Firefox or Safari) and you will likely see it and be able to delete all he spaces. Edited January 17, 2019 by thetick1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 WHY all the space after your post? Come on now.Fixed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Well all those spaces are still there. What OS and browser did you use to post ? Just do an edit from a common updated modern PC browser (Chrome, Firefox or Safari) and you will likely see it and be able to delete all he spaces. Hmm on my Win7 box after seeing your reply I do not see the spaces, but on my Win10 box I see them. I'm on Win7 right now, but I'll get on my Win10 box real soon and do an edit for the spaces and see what happens. Ah ha I sort of was thinking Win10! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I use DVD-RW drives in my 98SE builds with no problems. One is in a Super Socket 7 box, and the other is in a 440BX box. They are the only period incorrect components because I need them for Norton Ghost 2003. I use Ghost to burn images of the HDD to DVD-R. I can have different images for different video/sound card combos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 You are probably just shooting yourself in the foot. If you really want a CR-RW with Windows 9X you'll need to find the right driver as it appears you have it configured as CD-ROM not a CD-R nor CR-RW. It is almost impossible to know which device driver is needed or if it even exists unless you have driver working on the same hardware. If you can get working on a modern OS that may give you a clue, but again certainly no guarantee the same brand existed with Windows 9X or would even work. CR-RW was pretty new at the time and there were no "standards" yet, just like very early USB devices that needed a special usb device driver .. long before the USB Mass Storage driver became the standard for all USB storage. I still have an ancient USB drive from about '95 and it to this day requires a special device driver as it does not use USB mass storage. I'm actually quite shocked MS has a modern driver built in Windows 7 for it. Note that driver does not work in Windows 10 and Windows 10 does not have a driver for it like Windows 7. Anyway you could get very lucky and a default Windows 9X might work , but I surely would bet against it. Seriously Windows 9X is an extremely poor choice for many reasons these days. Old games from that time run better on plain DOS than Windows 9X. Yes there's a short period of time where Windows 9X may be needed on bare metal for certain games. Regardless you can run Windows 9X in a VM and your CR-RW will very likely work fine. I know my CR-RW from my decade old laptop worked fine with Linux host OS and accessing in a Windows 95 VM. Yeah I was thinking Win9x could be the culprit. I remember when I built this system back in the late 90s I never could get a cd-rw to right. I remember also it took me awhile to pay for the cd-rw on credit too!!!! Remember how expensive they were?!?! I'll still play around with it to see if I can get lucky with some good programmers that may have created a driver. One user suggested Frog ASPI; I downloaded it, unzip the rar file, now I'll try it for grins. Otherwise like I mentioned I'll just play my Win9x games on the box. Honestly I never tried an 9x VM; guess I'm too old (59) to teach an old dog new habits. Thank you for your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I use DVD-RW drives in my 98SE builds with no problems. One is in a Super Socket 7 box, and the other is in a 440BX box. They are the only period incorrect components because I need them for Norton Ghost 2003. I use Ghost to burn images of the HDD to DVD-R. I can have different images for different video/sound card combos. Hmm!!! I never thought beyond "no way will a DVD work" of trying one. Hmm that's interesting you got a DVD to work in 98SE. Are the drives atapi IDE or scsi? I've got an older version of Ghost. What version do you use? Thanks! P.S. I'm retired now and sick of Informix, databases on web servers, user support issues, and the work world. Just wanted to get back to my old roots (DOS and Windows games). Actually it all started for me with CP/M, but have no desire for that; there's no graphics, games of real value nor fun(to me). Just a tid bit - sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Hmm!!! I never thought beyond "no way will a DVD work" of trying one. Hmm that's interesting you got a DVD to work in 98SE. Are the drives atapi IDE or scsi? I've got an older version of Ghost. What version do you use? Thanks! P.S. I'm retired now and sick of Informix, databases on web servers, user support issues, and the work world. Just wanted to get back to my old roots (DOS and Windows games). Actually it all started for me with CP/M, but have no desire for that; there's no graphics, games of real value nor fun(to me). Just a tid bit - sorry. I should say that I only burn using Ghost. I have no need to use Nero with my retro box, so I can't offer any help on that front. But Ghost will use the Windows front end and then launch into its own DOS-based imaging program. The SS7 and 440BX boxes are pretty fast -- ~500MHz K6-3+ and Pentium 3 CPUs. Not sure if burning a DVD-R needs something that fast, but it might. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 What version do you use? I use Ghost 2003, but check this out: https://archive.org/details/norton_systemworks_2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I should say that I only burn using Ghost. I have no need to use Nero with my retro box, so I can't offer any help on that front. But Ghost will use the Windows front end and then launch into its own DOS-based imaging program. The SS7 and 440BX boxes are pretty fast -- ~500MHz K6-3+ and Pentium 3 CPUs. Not sure if burning a DVD-R needs something that fast, but it might. My box is an old Pentium Pro; I believe it was the first Pentium that use internal cache to its CPU. It's 200Mhz, and when I got it setup I was blown away back in the mid-to-late 90s. Eh right now I'm trying to unwind from the work world, so building a new box may be out about 6 mos or so. I will look into the mobo boards though. I'll bet they're not cheap. Nothing vintage is cheap anymore. Thanks a million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetick1 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) Yeah I was thinking Win9x could be the culprit. I remember when I built this system back in the late 90s I never could get a cd-rw to right. I remember also it took me awhile to pay for the cd-rw on credit too!!!! Remember how expensive they were?!?! I'll still play around with it to see if I can get lucky with some good programmers that may have created a driver. One user suggested Frog ASPI; I downloaded it, unzip the rar file, now I'll try it for grins. Otherwise like I mentioned I'll just play my Win9x games on the box. Honestly I never tried an 9x VM; guess I'm too old (59) to teach an old dog new habits. Thank you for your time! Sure no problem. I'm not that much younger than you .. only a decade. Anyway I really enjoy VMs. I can run all my old Intel OSes in a window for fun... Microsoft OS/2 1.0 , IBM OS/2 2.1, IBM OS/2 Warp 4.52 with Lemmings!, QNX (1.44M image with GUI and browser!), AIX 1.3 (for PS/2 Intel), Windows 1.0, BeOS 5, Red Hat Desktop Beta 0.9, Knoppix 0.1 ... ah well Windows 1.0 I have to just laugh at. Edited January 17, 2019 by thetick1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I use DVD-RW drives in my 98SE builds with no problems. One is in a Super Socket 7 box, and the other is in a 440BX box. They are the only period incorrect components because I need them for Norton Ghost 2003. I use Ghost to burn images of the HDD to DVD-R. I can have different images for different video/sound card combos. I've got plenty DVD drives around; I'll try it for grins and get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I should say that I only burn using Ghost. I have no need to use Nero with my retro box, so I can't offer any help on that front. But Ghost will use the Windows front end and then launch into its own DOS-based imaging program. The SS7 and 440BX boxes are pretty fast -- ~500MHz K6-3+ and Pentium 3 CPUs. Not sure if burning a DVD-R needs something that fast, but it might. That's interesting about Ghost dropping into its own DOS environment. I use Acronis and have for probably 20 years; it drops into its own Linux shell even in my Win98 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Sure no problem. I'm not that much younger than you .. only a decade. Anyway I really enjoy VMs. I can run all my old Intel OSes in a window for fun... Microsoft OS/2 1.0 , IBM OS/2 2.1, IBM OS/2 Warp 4.52 with Lemmings!, QNX (1.44M image with GUI and browser!), AIX 1.3 (for PS/2 Intel), Windows 1.0, BeOS 5, Red Hat Desktop Beta 0.9, Knoppix 0.1 ... ah well Windows 1.0 I have to just laugh at. That's interesting. I've got an orig IBM (I think Mod 57 48x guy) with the original OS/2 2.1 installed. Still have the orig box. About a year or so ago I played with getting an external 5 1/4" diskette drive installed but never got it to work. That's another I'll have to get to. I'll leave that for another thread. I toyed with putting Warp on it but want to keep it original. I have NO idea how to clone or image it. My 98 box I may buy a scsi controller and drive on ebay. I found a few not too bad. But yeah I don't want to keep shooting myself in the foot. All us computer nuts sometimes can't resist buying more stuff to try and GET IT TO WORK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxpressed Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Kind of a longshot, but have you tried an 80-pin IDE cable (the kind with the thinner wires)? There's no reason why a CD-RW drive won't work with a PPro unless there's a defect somewhere along the line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 How does it list in windows device manager? I think the dos driver should be removed and it needs to be properly configured in device manager. Does the burner software recognise the drive, any error messages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencerhm Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 How does it list in windows device manager? I think the dos driver should be removed and it needs to be properly configured in device manager. Does the burner software recognise the drive, any error messages? That's the thing - I don't see it listed in device manager and I was wondering about the real mode drivers I am loading. My drives (CD-RWs and DVDs) are not PnP. In Device Mgr. all I see is Creative's CD interface (from a PnP Creative Sound Blaster) but it's got the yellow exclamation mark. My assumption is because I do not have a drive plugged into this cards IDE interface. I tried pugging the drives into this interface but doesn't work. All the software doesn't work. I tried installing several different interfaces within 98 using the 98Se add new hardware and can't seem to get it to work within 98. Without the real mode drivers I don't even see it in File Explorer. I've ordered a scsi PnP card and a scsi drive AND a Creative CD-RW. That's all the money I intend to spend! I'll toy with it until I see insanity then I'll STOP. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Plugnplay doesn't apply to ide drives. Cable select is sort of pnp I guess, but typically you use master/slave jumpers. I'm assuming you have an ide hard drive that's in device manager. Are you sure the SBlaster interface is ide? The yellow exclamation mark is because it doesn't have a proper driver. See if it has jumpers to disable it or set its address in case it's interfering. Pull the sblaster completely to test the other ide interfaces. Remove the dos cdrom drivers. Try it again. Try it as a slave to the hard drive. Check the bios that it's recognised there. Check device manager for yellow exclamation marks. It might have been cheaper to get a different ide cdrw drive that's compatible than go scsi. Edit: In device manager you should see primary and secondary ide controllers under hard disk controllers. Edited January 19, 2019 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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