Atari 8-bit machines comparison table

[+MrFish]

12V is for the SCART mode switch (composite/RGB), but I have audio on pin3 in my SECAM wiring diagram.

 

Alright, that's pretty interesting. So, a device signals the television what mode it needs, in this case (9.5 - 12v) for composite, or alternately (0 - 2v) for R/F, on pin 8 of the SCART cable per this diagram.

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[+kheller2]

I like the suggestion for replacing the PBI Expansion with: PBI, CART+ECI, CARD SLOT (or whatever the 400/800 calls it) with the quantity next to it .

 

When you get to the other side of the pond, things get really interesting since an 800XE is really a 65XE, but not the NTSC 65XE which is really a 900XLF.

 

I didn't think 800XLFs were that rare in Europe, but I don't know. They don't exist in NA (except those that have been converted).

 

SECAM/PAL is another thing to take into consideration, that was mentioned I believe.

 

I would finish out the NTSC market of systems and use that as a template to expand East.

 

Prototypes are a mess simply because of the variety: are you including the 65XEP, the non-existent 65XEM, which 1450 (the 1450XL or TONG)? From a basic spec POV you could say: 300 Baud Modem, Speech, Floppy, but that is all that was the same-- the Floppy specs even varied (so did the speech). The only prototype that could reasonably be included is the 1450XL board that had 150 or so run (including those that people here built).

[+MrFish]

I like the suggestion for replacing the PBI Expansion with: PBI, CART+ECI, CARD SLOT (or whatever the 400/800 calls it) with the quantity next to it .

 

Yeah, I already did that.

 

 

When you get to the other side of the pond, things get really interesting since an 800XE is really a 65XE, but not the NTSC 65XE which is really a 900XLF.

 

We've already gone over this; although maybe I wasn't clear when I said the 800XE/65XE are one machine. I did mean in Europe.

 

 

I didn't think 800XLFs were that rare in Europe, but I don't know. They don't exist in NA (except those that have been converted).

 

Yes, I know they weren't U.S. machines. Maybe they're just rare to my vision then, since I don't see them talked about much online. Do we have any estimates on production numbers, or at least a fair amount of individuals claiming to own one?

 

 

SECAM/PAL is another thing to take into consideration, that was mentioned I believe.

 

That's what we're talking about with this +12v (and +5v, if it exists) on the video connector, which is apparently related to signals used on a SCART cable.

 

 

I would finish out the NTSC market of systems and use that as a template to expand East.

 

This is exactly what I'm doing. At this point, I think I'll do a separate PAL/SECAM table, then see about combining them. In that case, I may also give the Arabic 65XE a spot.

 

 

Prototypes are a mess simply because of the variety: are you including the 65XEP, the non-existent 65XEM, which 1450 (the 1450XL or TONG)? From a basic spec POV you could say: 300 Baud Modem, Speech, Floppy, but that is all that was the same-- the Floppy specs even varied (so did the speech). The only prototype that could reasonably be included is the 1450XL board that had 150 or so run (including those that people here built).

 

The 65XEP was never fully prototyped. All they ever had was a monitor and keyboard with a shell. You can't buy one (that does anything). I don't know what exists of the 65XEM; all I've ever seen is a case. So I have no plans to add either of these to the production lists. I suppose it might be interesting to make a prototype only list, with all the planned specs; at least for reference purpose.

 

At least we have examples of the 14xx machines that exist. A person could actually buy one; and of course quite a few folks bought and populated 1400XL boards a while back (installing them into 1200XL cases).

 

All this talk makes an Atari (and possibly a 3rd party) floppy drives comparison table sound pretty interesting as well...

 

[Edit] I meant floppy drives, not hard drives.

Edited April 3, 2019 by MrFish

[+MrFish]

Here's a 2nd revision. Still things to change/add, on future revisions...

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons (Rev. 2).xls

 

[ClausB]

Can I argue that the 400 keyboard does have slight tactile feedback? Raised key edges help the finger locate. Speaker click is felt in the fingertip.

[+MrFish]

2 minutes ago, ClausB said:

Can I argue that the 400 keyboard does have slight tactile feedback? Raised key edges help the finger locate. Speaker click is felt in the fingertip.

I was thinking about that a little when I was going over things before posting. Most people who know me know that I love the 400 and that I think the membrane keyboard is very good for limited usage (and more, if a person is so inclined, or compelled by necessity).

 

I suppose I can come up with something other than "None" to put there. I also need to change the designation for the 600XL and 800XL, as there is some variability in the keyboard quality with them.

 

[cbelcher]

Under footnote 6 - the XEGS keyboard connector has 15 pins, not 9.

Good table!

[+MrFish]

18 minutes ago, cbelcher said:

Under footnote 6 - the XEGS keyboard connector has 15 pins, not 9.

Yeah, that's right. I knew that -- since I've owned those cables and keyboards. I guess so used to talking about Atari 9-port joystick connectors... I'll fix that. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[+MrFish]

Here's Rev. 2a, with the changes discussed.

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons (Rev. 2a).xls

[+kheller2]

Don’t the 800XLFreddie PAL boards have chroma and lum?

[_The Doctor__]

and some of the freddie based machines have a capacitor that is not connected to it correctly making noise for video and other such susceptible things. I don't know wihich rev and board but I am sure someone will search it out and post it.

[flashjazzcat]

4 hours ago, kheller2 said:

Don’t the 800XLFreddie PAL boards have chroma and lum?

Correct.

 

Might also be worth mentioning that no PAL 1200XLs were produced. There's also the matter of SECAM A8s.

[flashjazzcat]

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

and some of the freddie based machines have a capacitor that is not connected to it correctly making noise for video and other such susceptible things. I don't know wihich rev and board but I am sure someone will search it out and post it.

Googled 'tf_hh 800xlf' (remembering that Jurgen wrote about it):

 

Edited February 26 by flashjazzcat

[+kheller2]

2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

Googled 'tf_hh 800xlf' (remembering that Jurgen wrote about it):

 

Yup all produced/populated 800XL(F) boards have that problem.  Prototypes, and ones designed after that specifc board revision are not defined. 

[flashjazzcat]

The fault completely screwed VBXE output in this machine (which is when I learned of Jurgen's fix):

 

[+MrFish]

8 hours ago, kheller2 said:

Don’t the 800XLFreddie PAL boards have chroma and lum?

It's in the notes already.

 

4 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

Might also be worth mentioning that no PAL 1200XLs were produced.

Yeah, I might add that in the notes.

 

4 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

There's also the matter of SECAM A8s.

I haven't included any SECAM info yet. I think it can all just go into the notes.

 

[Mr Robot]

On 2/25/2024 at 9:26 PM, MrFish said:

Here's Rev. 2a, with the changes discussed.

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons (Rev. 2a).xls 33.5 kB · 12 downloads

You should mention Multijoy in (5) and that most if not all of the 4 player games now have Multijoy versions for XL/XE

[+MrFish]

9 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

You should mention Multijoy in (5) and that most if not all of the 4 player games now have Multijoy versions for XL/XE

Good point. I'll add it.

 

[+MrFish]

Updated (Rev. 2c), with information about Multijoy added.

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons (Rev. 2c).xls

 

Edited March 31 by MrFish
Posted the wrong image on the first time. Fixed.

[+MrFish]

Updated (Rev. 2d), with information about 65XE ECI added.

Atari 8-Bit - Comparisons (Rev. 2d).xls

 

[Edit]

Corrected mistake about PAL 65XE's without ECI.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

I would classify the 1200XL keyboard tactile feedback as excellent.

[rkindig]

The 800XE seems to be missing from this table.

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, rkindig said:

The 800XE seems to be missing from this table.

The 800XE is nothing more than a rebadged European 65XE (PAL B). There's nothing about it that warrants any more than a footnote here. It's mentioned in item #10 in the notes about expansion ports.

 

[ClausB]

For the sale of consistency, since under 800 it says 4 card slots, should it say 1 card slot under 400?

[+MrFish]

2 hours ago, ClausB said:

For the sale of consistency, since under 800 it says 4 card slots, should it say 1 card slot under 400?

I thought about that before, when I was first working on the table, but I decided against it because it's not accessible from the outside of the machine like all the others. However, if we want to be technical, it does have slots that can be used to expand the machine, and there are really two of them, one for the CPU board and one for memory. I don't think there were any CPU board replacements from back in the day (or were there?); but we definitely have some now.

 

So, yeah, I should probably add that -- mainly because I don't want people to get the impression that the machine can't be fairly easily upgraded, and they should know that it does have card slots for doing so; it's just that it's quite a different beast when it comes to making use of them. I'll need to make things clear about it in the notes.