Atari 8-bit machines comparison table

[_The Doctor__]

Because it is listed as a Personality card/upgrade slot (1) and RAM/Upgrade Slot (1)

Where as the 800 Had 1 Personality card/upgrade slot and each of the other slots had differing uses but the last slot seemed to be used alot video board or I/O boards

Both the 400 and 800 did have a complete board or single chip to purchase when the GTIA update etc came out.

Didn't even check to see if the developer side boards and video side boards were listed.

Edited April 30 by _The Doctor__

[drpeter]

>>Early 400 / 800 models had a CTIA chip.<<

 

I would change this to 'Very early US ...'

 

I think CTIA machines are a real rarity, not least because Atari offered a free upgrade to anyone with a CTIA machine.

 

CTIA machines never shipped to the UK (and, I presume, Europe) - by that time all machines were already GTIA.

Edited April 30 by drpeter

[drpeter]

4 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Because it is listed as a Personality card/upgrade slot (1) and RAM/Upgrade Slot (1)

Where as the 800 Had 1 Personality card/upgrade slot and each of the other slots had differing uses but the last slot seemed to be used alot video board or I/O boards

For clarity, the 800 'Personality card' (front slot) had the 10K ROM OS & math chips. In the 400 these were on the motherboard (albeit socketed and therefore easily internally upgradeable).

 

Both 800 and 400 had a slot for a CPU board that was not externally accessible, bearing the 6502, ANTIC and CTIA/GTIA.

 

The 800 had 3 externally-accessible RAM slots, the rear one having additional lines that allowed some plug-in non-RAM expansions such as 80-column video.  The 400 had just 1 internally-accessible RAM slot.

 

Edited April 30 by drpeter

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, drpeter said:

>>Early 400 / 800 models had a CTIA chip.<<

 

I would change this to 'Very early US ...'

 

I think CTIA machines are a real rarity, not least because Atari offered a free upgrade to anyone with a CTIA machine.

I'll agree with that assessment. CTIA was really just a stop gap, until the GTIA was finished. GTIA was being worked on from the beginning: it's not some "video upgrade" that was intended to help "extend" the line, as some people from other platforms have mistakenly thought, and have attempted to assert on this forum. CTIA machines definitely are a rarity in the wild, and that's what's being addressed in the table.

 

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, drpeter said:

Both 800 and 400 had a slot for a CPU board that was not externally accessible, bearing the 6502, ANTIC and CTIA/GTIA.

Right... but was there ever any 800 expansion that utilized replacement of its CPU card?

 

[TomC]

Has anyone/any group generated/maintained a list of which Atari 400/800/65XE/130XE machines had all of the ICs socketed?

 

I assume that all XE machines are not socketed.

 

I've opened a couple 800XLs that are both socketed, but I've noticed that others here have 800XL machines that are soldered.  [These were both manufactured in Taiwan.]  

 

I've modified a couple 800XLs with OS upgrades and a keyboard interface.  It would be nice to know if the machine is socketed by some indication on the outside of the case as these are most time consuming to disassemble to discover if they are socketed.

 

Thank you in advance for your helpful advice,

TomC

[+MrFish]

My general assessment of socketing is laid out in the chart.

 

XE's = vast majority not socketed, but some small number (few) are socketed, or at least partially socketed.

800XL = vast majority socketed, but not all; some machines partially socketed.

600XL = less socketed machines than the 800XL, maybe 60% or thereabouts(?); some machines partially socketed.

400, 800, 1200XL = all are socketed.

 

Speak up if there's anything incorrect here.

 

 

Edited April 30 by MrFish
Added more details for clarity.

[TomC]

20 minutes ago, MrFish said:

My general assessment of socketing is laid out in the chart.

 

XE's = vast majority not socketed, but some small number (few) are socketed.

XL's = vast majority socketed, but not all.

400, 800, 1200XL = all are socketed.

 

Speak up if there's anything incorrect here.

 

Thank you very much Mr.Fish!  I just found your chart a couple screens back - great work!!!

 

TomC

[Kr0tki]

On 4/30/2024 at 9:32 AM, drpeter said:

I think CTIA machines are a real rarity, not least because Atari offered a free upgrade to anyone with a CTIA machine.

It was free only for the customers with a still-valid warranty. Others had to pay.

[drpeter]

1 hour ago, Kr0tki said:

It was free only for the customers with a still-valid warranty. Others had to pay.

Interesting, according to the 1st article referenced by Wikipedia, Atari shipped 100,000 units with CTIA, which if true would not explain why they are so rare today unless nearly all had been replaced.  However, the rest of the article is so riddled with obvious errors that it's hard to give this figure much credence.  Interesting also that at the time Atari denied that they had been shipping GTIAs overseas before they entered the US market. That plainly wasn't true- the UK had exclusively GTIA machines from Spring 1981, when the very first shipments arrived (I know, I had one of the very first!) (In fact, I have it still!)

Edited May 1 by drpeter

[Kr0tki]

Maybe that representative was Technicallly Telling the Truth: it is a known fact that indeed, Atari was not shipping the chip in question (i.e. NTSC GTIA) to overseas markets.

[Beeblebrox]

21 hours ago, MrFish said:

My general assessment of socketing is laid out in the chart.

 

XE's = vast majority not socketed, but some small number (few) are socketed, or at least partially socketed.

800XL = vast majority socketed, but not all; some machines partially socketed.

600XL = less socketed machines than the 800XL, maybe 60% or thereabouts(?); some machines partially socketed.

400, 800, 1200XL = all are socketed.

 

Speak up if there's anything incorrect here.

 

 

Hi. Just thought I'd add some points of clarification based on lots of experience with the PAL machines.

 

• All PAL 600XL's are socketed - so those PAL ones which are Hong Kong made. Some of the Chelco USA and Hong Kong NTSC ones I've had are also fully socketed, so I assuming that the chelco NTSC ones are also all socketed as standard. I've never come across a PAL 600XL that hasn't been fully factory socketed, and I've never come across anything other than Hong Kong made or USA made 600XLs. You don't seem to ever see a Taiwanese made 600XL.
• All 800XL PAL Hong Kong made machines are fully socketed. I've never come across a Hong Kong made 800XL that wasn't factory socketed.
• All 800XL Taiwanese made ones are genererally not socketed, or you'll occasionally find some with one or all of the 40pin IC's socketed on some Tawianese ones (factor socketed, not post factory used added). So I'll always be on the lookout for a Hong Kong made Pal 800xl over a Taiwanese made one. I've had lots of Rev D boards and many others.
• AFAIK I've never come across a PAL 800XLF that has been fully socketed at factory. Again some XLFs will have some socketed 40pin chips, but it's rare in my experience.
• 65XE/130XE/800XE/XEGS PAL machines never come socketed from factory. I assume this is also the case with NTSC XEs and XEGS(?). PCB quality is pretty bad when compared with all the other lines. 
• 1200XL (al NTSC as we know) are socketed.
• 400 and 800 are fully socketed - and have excellent PCB build quality, (thought I'd add that).

 

Edited May 1 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

Interesting topic here about a very rare unsocketed 600XL spotted in the wild:

The general consensus seems to be that almost all 600XLs of every variety were fully socketed out of the factory.

Edited May 1 by flashjazzcat

[Beeblebrox]

28 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Interesting topic here about a very rare unsocketed 600XL spotted in the wild:

The general consensus seems to be that almost all 600XLs of every variety were fully socketed out of the factory.

heh heh - perhaps what was a socketed 600XL that TF_hh de-socketed and soldered chips back onto the board to then sell as a rare 600XL!! 😄 (Joking of course) 😉

Seriously interesting - never seen a non socketed 600XL before. I am glad 600XLs are socketed though - lovely machines to work with. 

Edited May 1 by Beeblebrox

[+MrFish]

Alright, I was hoping some people would start speaking up on this subject. Personally, I've owned about (10) 800XL, (8) 130XE, (2) 800, (2) 1200XL, (2) XEGS, (1) 400, and (1) 65XE; all NTSC machines, except for one PAL 130XE. I probably initially filled in the slot about 600XL's before I had any real information about their socketing, intending to research it later. Then, when I revived working on the table, had forgotten I'd done that. Anyway, thanks for the correction, and other information.

 

[+MrFish]

6 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

perhaps what was a socketed 600XL that TF_hh de-socketed and soldered chips back onto the board to then sell as a rare 600XL!!

EVERTYTHING is  ! ! !      R A R E      ! ! !  on Ebay. No need for any de-socketing; it's all about creative writing.

 

[+kheller2]

So, the later in the year 1984 stamp on the serial number will indicate if you have all sockets or not. Put another way, before summer 84, all were socketed?  And basic C is also an aid for socketless boards. 

[_The Doctor__]

On 5/1/2024 at 3:39 PM, MrFish said:

EVERTYTHING is  ! ! !      R A R E      ! ! !  on Ebay. No need for any de-socketing; it's all about creative writing.

 

Yes, everything on ebay is rarey expensive. l@@k OMG super super super rare only 208,000 on sale now at ebay alone... like that's almost like hen's teeth! LMFAO