rough idea: high scores?

[liquid_sky]

i think a way oof having visitors submit high scores without all that torment twingalaxies requires would be a good addition to the site.. it could work on the honor system, since not all of us always have a camera (or the F12 key) handy to get proof.. just a thought..

[Alex]

Hmmm, interesting idea. I wouldn't mind trying that, just for the technical challenge. I'm not sure it would work in practice though. Most of us are mature enough that we could use the honor system, but I can guarantee that some kid would go in there and just enter a bunch of crap making it all pretty useless. Perhaps we could tie it in to the member status of the message board - you have to have 100+ posts or something to enter high scores. It would discriminate against new people, but I can't think of any other way without personally reviewing and updating scores, which I sure don't want to do. Most people that stick around for 100+ posts are serious fans and could be trusted. And anyone who seems to be grossly shilling posts we could ban, ban ban! Have to think about that one...

[khryssun]

My highscore at Galaxian Game 1 is 11240 anyone can do worse ?

[liquid_sky]

yeah, not saying names but i know one person who would probally abuse the system and ruin it for all of us.. you could have like a gradual system.. like around x number of posts you can get a high score posted when you send proof, that could build trust, then have your idea about the postings come into play.. it could be like a java applet on each page, like on the box scans. say i went to adven.....err....wait bad example no score... say i went to look at the galaxian scan.. the applet could read like "Current High Score Holder khryssun score 11240.. think you have what it takes? join the Atariage community and find out (cross-promo is always a plus). and if you have to do what you mentioned about having at last resort a pay system this could be part of the pay page. i think i have too many jumbled thoughs in one post so im out for now

[Tempest]

I won't abuse the system, I promise!

 

We had a Highscore thing on the DP page for awhile and then it fizzled. It was fun getting high scores without having to take a picture or videotape the whole god damn thing.

 

Tempest

[Wntermute]

My high score on Mines of Minos is around 2080. ^_^ (Hence my title)

[Albert]

I think it would be interesting to have a record of high scores for individual games, but I'm not really sure an honor system would work very well. I don't think taking a screenshot of a game either in an emulator or with a digital camera is really that difficult. If you know you're going to be trying for a high score, then you should make some effort to have some way to document it. Otherwise I don't think many people would put much faith in our high scores. And even screenshots can be faked extremely easily, especially for the relatively simple 2600 games.

 

And I don't think that going by posts alone would be good enough. That would discriminate against people who have genuine high scores but don't post very often to the message boards (I'm sure there are many lurkers out there!) If there was some type of feedback system like eBay that would be a bit better, but I'm not sure how you'd really set something like that up for a high-score system.

 

I do like the concept, though, so we'll have to give it some thought and see what kind of workable system we can come up with. Please keep the ideas flowing!

 

..Al

[liquid_sky]

well, i have seen the ebay feedback system abused alot, so im not sure how good that would work.. and how to implement it is another blehhness factor.. i have probs takin screenshots with z26 it makes them look messed up, might just be me, and i dont own any cameras, that is one reason im against having to have such proof. and hearing tempest's story about that great score and twingalaxies and all that bs.. we are (mostly) mature users who wouldnt abuse a system, but you have a really good point, we need faith in scores.. and there are some people who do lurk but deserve to show thier scores, and there is a fall back plan needed.. looks like ill be brainstorming some more, while trying to beat that insane mines of minos score, thanks for the feedback of feedback

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Liquid_sky.

 

z26 does hose up the screenshots...no doubt...but there is a way to do it.

 

Pause the game in z26..and then hit the "Printscreen" key. Then minimize to windows and pull up MS Paint and then paste to a new image. You should get a clean screenshot of your game in z26.

 

That is what I have to do for some of my reviews and the screenshots to go with them.

 

Hope that helps.

[liquid_sky]

ahh much clearer, thanks for the help!

[khryssun]

I agree with Albert about the honor system.

I don't want to be pessimistic but cheating is a part of the human nature.

We trust in all the long time Atari Age members but what about new-comers ?

 

So, Taking screenshots with an emulator will be a good way to validate a score.

 

But not just a common screenshot, because as Albert said :

 

quote

And even screenshots can be faked extremely easily

 

What we need is an Encoded Screenshot.

What is it.... ?

In fact, it's a concept I will include in my next VCS Simulator game (I plan to make a Highscore contest for this incoming game).

 

This system will allow to secure screenshots so it will be easy to detect a modified screenshot files.

 

Maybe it will be interresting to include this feature in Z26.

 

There's many way to program such a thing, but nobody has includes a such feature so far... It seems Nobody thought about that.... till now

[Eckhard Stolberg]

quote:

---

Originally posted by -^Cro§Bow^-:

z26 does hose up the screenshots...no doubt...but there is a way to do it.

---

 

The screenshot feature in z26 was created before the support for the tall video modes was added and hasn't been updated since. Therefore the screenshot feature will only work properly in the smaller video modes like modes 0-3, I think. Since the tall video modes are used by default, you have to switch to one of the smaller modes with ALT-0 for example, if you would like to do screnshots. You might also have to center the screen again with the PAGE UP and PAGE DOWN keys.

 

As for doing encoded screenshots in z26, I don't think it would work. The source code is openly available, so everyone could disable the security checks and still use every possible cheat to play the game.

 

 

Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

[khryssun]

quote

The source code is openly available,  

 

Damn, I forgot that !

[liquid_sky]

yeah, that sucks... while we are on the topic of z26 is it just me or does it also make strange sounds like when you use a digital phone on pulse dialing mode? im thinking of a different way to authenticate now that digital watermarking in z26 is screwed.. this is one case open source kinda sucks

[khryssun]

Maybe it will be possible to keep the project open source except for the encoding functions.

 

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: khryssun ]

 

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: khryssun ]

[Eckhard Stolberg]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

while we are on the topic of z26 is it just me or does it also make strange sounds like when you use a digital phone on pulse dialing mode?

---

 

Normally it shouldn't do that. It sounds more like a problem with the soundcard configuration or the Soundblaster DOS mode driver. I think John occasionally gets complains from people who use soundcards that are not Soundblaster compatible through hardware but through an SB emulator, like the SB live. How do other DOS based programs work for you? PCAE for DOS also mentions problems with the SB live card in it's documentation for example.

 

 

Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

[liquid_sky]

well, stellaX works just fine with sounds, but its pallete is all messed up so i dont use it, pcae has good sound, maybe it is my dos soundcard config.. i have a soundblaster live, most DOS programs sound normal, this may sound odd, but i think it has to do with the channels on my card, because if i have a cd going while i am using z26 i dont hear those sounds

 

[ 07-02-2001: Message edited by: liquid_sky ]

[hurt]

Alex:

 

i think that your idea about limiting it to memebers with a certian number of posts is a great idea, that and the fact that if someone did just enter a bunch of crap then you would know who they where or atleast there user on the message board.

[Jeffy Arensmeyer]

Sounds like you guys are going to have to trust people if you want them to post high scores.

 

Even with an "encoded capture system" someone could still use DOSCOPY and rig up a high scroe shot with no trouble. It's a fact; Some people would rather spend 30 hours trying to find a better way to cheat rather than spend 5 hours "getting good" at a particular game.

 

As far as limiting it to members with a certain number of posts; that would be unfair. I have very few posts, but I vist every day. Someone could just find the oldest topic and spam the crap out of it until they have 100 posts or 200 posts or 460+ posts. It's no big deal.

 

You don't want to sound like "AtariAge.com is for everyone, except for the people we don't know".

 

It sounds good and sounds like fun. I've participated in an on-line NES tournament before and it was great. NESticle uses a type of replay capture that will record the entire game that you play. You just reopen NESticle, open the ROM of the game and then load the file. It's usually only about 50K and it's a replay of your whole game, kind of like a player piano.

 

You might give that some thought. It would be better than creating a "Certain People Only" sign that you're talking about.

 

ò¿ó

[mos6507]

The way to implement high scores is to build it into an emulator so that the emulator posts the high scores directly.

 

Brad Mott was brainstorming ways to have an emulator "know" when a game finishes and where and how the score was stored in order to capture the high scores using a new version of Stella.

 

Basically a separate task watchdogs the emulator like a debugging process.

 

The emulator can check against its database to insure that the game isn't hacked also.

 

It's doable, it's just a lot of work and I know Brad doesn't have the time for it.

[Wntermute]

IMHO, Brad should get in touch with Ron Corcoran from TG to see what solutions might be viable.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I like Glenns idea, of the built in highscore support for the emulator.

 

It's not necessary that the score is directly send somewhere, it would be enough, that the emulators writes an encrpyted file including screenshot and some game parameters (CRC of the binary, framerate, game was paused, emulator version etc.), which then could be send somewhere by eMail. It shouldn't be very difficult to add this to z26, Stella or PCAE.

 

The source code for this part of the emu had to be (?) non public and some verification over the rest of the code had to be included, so only original version would work. I'm not sure, but maybe even open source which includes some advanced crypting technologies might be possible.

 

And at least most of those idiots, that would try to spoil the database wouldn't have a chance to hack this.

[Adam Huemer]

I'm taking hiscores on honor, any platform, any game, any way you play the game.

http://pirates.emucamp.com

 

I very much doubt that someone is low enough that he has to cheat a hiscore to be named in some video computer web page, or am I too optimistic?

 

 

for 2600 currently Phoenix, Skateboardin, Millipede, Congo Bongo and Star Raiders scores are wanted!!!