+Nathan Strum Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 This... On 9/20/2019 at 4:15 PM, Albert said: Subscribers will not see ads on the forum, This... On 9/20/2019 at 4:15 PM, Albert said: There will be no obnoxious pop-up ads, no ads that cover a good portion of your screen, no video ads, and no ads that autoplay audio. And this... On 9/20/2019 at 4:15 PM, Albert said: I also want to upgrade the store to completely new software, and as part of that upgrade, allow digital purchases of homebrew games for authors that want to offer that as an option. I'd be able to hire developers to make improvements to the forum software beyond what's already done. This could also help finance projects such as getting new cartridge shells made for the 2600 and other systems. And this may allow me to setup an AtariAge booth at more shows across the country, versus just one or two shows a year as I've been doing for a while now. Are all positives for the community. I don't look forward to seeing ads here, but if they help keep AtariAge running (and improving) and can alleviate some of the financial stress this puts Albert under, then I support the decision. It's been a pretty amazing run to have been ad-free this long. Hopefully, the ads can be relevant to this community, and not just the usual internet drivel. But I realize that may not be possible, unless there's a nerd-focused advertising company out there. One question - will ads be in individual blogs? The main index would be okay. But I'm not keen on having ads populate my blog entries. (Especially since the blogs are so catastrophically bad right now anyway.) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: I fully understand the need to gain money. But ads are very critical IMO. They are usually coming from a network, where the website owner has little control over the content. That means, a website using ads has to be assumed unsafe, because criminals can (and do!) spread zero day exploits via advertising networks ("malvertizing"). That's the main reason why I am almost permanently using an ad blocker and (have to) ignore websites which counter ad blockers. The ad network has a conservative filter on ads, and there should be no cases where malicious ads get through. I will be browsing the site without an ad blocker so I can watch for such things and raise the red flag if I see anything suspicious. I generally browse sites I want to support without an ad blocker enabled, and I've never had any issues in years of browsing the web. 4 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: There has to be a better way. I'm certainly open to suggestions, but right now I'm moving forward with this. ..Al 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 12:48 AM, Keatah said: There is a site where the owner said outright he watched the users' behavior over a period of like a year and slowly increased the amount of advertising till he pissed them off by making the site too difficult and slow. With an attitude like that I put it on my DoNotSubscribeTo list. That doesn't appear to be the case here however. This reminds me of one of my favorite Calvin and Hobbes strips, where Calvin's dad answers how the weight limit is determined on bridges. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said: Hopefully, the ads can be relevant to this community, and not just the usual internet drivel. But I realize that may not be possible, unless there's a nerd-focused advertising company out there. Ads will be relevant to your browsing history. 8 minutes ago, Nathan Strum said: One question - will ads be in individual blogs? The main index would be okay. But I'm not keen on having ads populate my blog entries. (Especially since the blogs are so catastrophically bad right now anyway.) Good question, ads will appear under the site header (including in the forum--and I'm not sure exactly what this will look like yet), and will appear in some content (such as forum topics). I'm not sure about Blog entries. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 12:42 AM, Albert said: I'd be fine with that. One of the listed benefits when I added forum subscriptions years ago was that ads would not be displayed to subscribers. ..Al I think you should emphasize that more, I almost missed it in your opener. I don't like web ads and I block them everywhere I can, but I have no problem paying for content I like, especially if it helps the site. I'm sure AA gets more from my $25/yr (same as Ars Technica or Daily Beast), than they ever would from ad clicks I would never make. I know most people don't see things the same way as me, and would prefer to get stuff for free in exchange for looking at ads, but I think it's good to appeal to folks' better nature. Here's how Ars pitches the value to the subscriber. I would do something similar here. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledown Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 IF I SEE ONE AD ON THIS SITE...THEN SO HELP ME...I'm still going to visit. It is what it is, Al if you gotta do it then by all means. Stuff costs money, and while I'm sure Al appreciates any cost savings suggestions to de-tune the website's hardware/software, I believe he feels its set up how it needs to be, and he's simply explaining how much it all costs. I've had plenty of people inform me over the years how they could do the same things I've done with "cheaper" equipment/components/parts, and while I appreciate the input/suggests, they are unsolicited. Bring on the NSFW ads! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) I feel so bad, I often had a subscription in my basket, took it out, put it back in, purchased Dungeon II instead, or something else, put a subscription back in...and out again..... But ads are good I guess, will it be gaming/computer/console ads? Playboy girls playing video games? Edited September 23, 2019 by high voltage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TailChao Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Albert said: That is interesting, I'd like to see some examples of that. But likely not, ads will be managed by a third-party company. There's nothing built into the forum to really do anything like that. I did see a modification that allows users to spend money to get their posts pinned for 'x' days (the length of time dependent on how much you want to spend). That's also interesting, but not something I'd want to do here. Something Awful's forums have a much broader coverage than AtariAge, so the advertisements cover a wide range of material. I've seen hosting offers (with coupon codes), legal firms, art commissions, and lots of gags. But in all cases it's just a small banner. Let's see what's running right now... Parahexavoctal is promoting an editing service : One indie developer really wants you to try their thing : Meanwhile, someone else thought it was worthwhile to lure users into the BYOB subforum through Winamp : So I imagine if AtariAge offered something similar - it'd commonly feature new games, accessories, and tacos. It's not very intrusive and since the banners are (mostly) user submitted they're at least pertinent. For example, there could be a banner advertisement for the Jaguar SD which is visible everywhere rather than just in the Jaguar subforum. It helps users find things they might be interested in, but not catch if they're only looking at certain subforums. Paying for pinned topics isn't nearly as useful, and I agree it wouldn't fit. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 41 minutes ago, Albert said: The ad network has a conservative filter on ads, and there should be no cases where malicious ads get through. I will be browsing the site without an ad blocker so I can watch for such things and raise the red flag if I see anything suspicious. I generally browse sites I want to support without an ad blocker enabled, and I've never had any issues in years of browsing the web. Consider yourself lucky. I got several alerts from my anti virus and my uncle's computer got encrypted lately. And we did not click on the adverts. 41 minutes ago, Albert said: I'm certainly open to suggestions, but right now I'm moving forward with this. Digital downloads maybe? Donate buttons? Regular fundraising like ZPH did for Stella? Paid content? ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 THAT'S IT, I'M OUT OF HERE IN THE MOST DRAMATIC WAY POSSIBLE! Joking aside, ads are necessary evil I think- I try to make sure I stay up on my sub because even if it's only 5 bucks a month, at least it's 5 bucks more I can contribute to 'to keeping the lights on'. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, Albert said: Ads will be relevant to your browsing history. How will that be realized? Local user tracking? Or cross site global tracking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, TailChao said: So I imagine if AtariAge offered something similar - it'd commonly feature new games, accessories, and tacos. It's not very intrusive and since the banners are (mostly) user submitted they're at least pertinent. That's really interesting, a fresh approach that doesn't rely on third parties selling stuff. It almost reminds me of the tribute pages in kids' yearbooks or programs for school plays. I would be happy to participate in something like that, especially if done with a humorous intent. Another idea could be sponsored topics, like how you see with highways in the US and perhaps elsewhere. I wouldn't mind putting a little $omething extra in for a favorite topic, such as the taco thread or the Atari Flashback Portable help thread. You'd probably want to have some kind of review panel for appropriateness, though -- lest we see stuff like Atari VCS and Intellivision Amico wallpapering over the entire site. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Consider yourself lucky. I got several alerts from my anti virus and my uncle's computer got encrypted lately. And we did not click on the adverts. I'm sure many sketchier websites use lower-quality ad networks that might be subject to garbage like that. You're not going to see ads like that on AtariAge. 2 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Digital downloads maybe? Donate buttons? Regular fundraising like ZPH did for Stella? Paid content? ...? Digital downloads I will certainly do in the future, but that's part of the store and I doubt they will make a significant impact. I know people want to buy binaries for homebrew games so they can support the homebrew community when using a flash cart or emulation, so I'd like to allow people to do this. Donate buttons would generally be ignored. I don't really want to do fundraising campaigns like ZPH, this is more of an ongoing thing and fundraising campaigns are time consuming and intrusive. Paid content would be interesting, but that's definitely not something I can even consider doing short-term as that would be yet another AtariAge-related time sink. ..Al 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: How will that be realized? Local user tracking? Or cross site global tracking? Cross-site tracking using cookies. .Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Albert said: Donate buttons would generally be ignored. Have you tried? When you start with ads, please test a donate for AA ad. The donations have to be made as simple for the user as possible. Click, select amount (from a list), select payment (from a list) and start payment. Edited September 23, 2019 by Thomas Jentzsch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, TailChao said: Something Awful's forums have a much broader coverage than AtariAge, so the advertisements cover a wide range of material. I've seen hosting offers (with coupon codes), legal firms, art commissions, and lots of gags. But in all cases it's just a small banner. Let's see what's running right now... Parahexavoctal is promoting an editing service : One indie developer really wants you to try their thing : Meanwhile, someone else thought it was worthwhile to lure users into the BYOB subforum through Winamp : So I imagine if AtariAge offered something similar - it'd commonly feature new games, accessories, and tacos. It's not very intrusive and since the banners are (mostly) user submitted they're at least pertinent. For example, there could be a banner advertisement for the Jaguar SD which is visible everywhere rather than just in the Jaguar subforum. It helps users find things they might be interested in, but not catch if they're only looking at certain subforums. Paying for pinned topics isn't nearly as useful, and I agree it wouldn't fit. That's all pretty interesting, thanks for sharing. I took a look at Something Awful and see they do have regular ads on the site. I'm amused at the random images they display next to ads in the forum. I didn't see the above type of banners, but I didn't look around very long. How much do they charge for these ads? I doubt it's a very significant form of revenue for them. I do like the idea of allowing users to buy ads at a reasonable cost and mixing them in with the other ads, but not sure how feasible that is. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Have you tried? When you start with ads, please test a donate for AA ad. The donations have to be made as simple for the user as possible. Click, select amount (from a list), select payment (from a list) and start payment. I figure the Subscriptions will work well for people who want to contribute and/or want an option to not see ads without enabling an ad blocker, and I feel they are reasonably-priced. A donation is a one-time thing, and yet another "nag" on the site, and I feel that subscriptions combined with the ads will be sufficient. I don't want to beg for money. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SmittyB Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 12:15 AM, Albert said: There will be no obnoxious pop-up ads, no ads that cover a good portion of your screen, no video ads, and no ads that autoplay audio. This removes 90% of what makes ads annoying for me, and it's obvious that you wouldn't let ads overrun the site. If it helps in any small way I'm all for it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, high voltage said: I feel so bad, I often had a subscription in my basket, took it out, put it back in, purchased Dungeon II instead, or something else, put a subscription back in...and out again..... But ads are good I guess, will it be gaming/computer/console ads? Playboy girls playing video games? They will be related to your browsing history, similar to ads displayed on most sites these days. So what you see will depend on what you're looking at when you browse the web. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 Just now, SmittyB said: This removes 90% of what makes ads annoying for me, and it's obvious that you wouldn't let ads overrun the site. If it helps in any small way I'm all for it. Yeah, I hate websites that have obnoxious ads that try to get in the way of your browsing experience. Definitely no pop-ups, huge ads that cover the screen, or ads that auto-playing audio/video. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Albert said: Ads will be relevant to your browsing history. That's going to be weird... seeing ads for AtariAge all over AtariAge. But whatever works. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 If anyone has an issue with implementing the means to pay for the continuing increase of running costs of this amazing place, please don't let the door hit you on the way out. Subs are cheap and the ads will help keep the lights on. Don't like it? Piss off. I say that with love of course. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Austin Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I don't know if anybody had mentioned this before or not, but when are we going to start seeing ads on AtariAge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Isaiah Austin said: I don't know if anybody had mentioned this before or not, but when are we going to start seeing ads on AtariAge? I don't know yet, I'm stupidly busy catching up on orders and juggling a million PRGE-related tasks, so it's not a high priority. But it is moving along, so it won't be too long before they appear. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+chue Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Throwing other ideas out there for increasing revenue: - charge a flat fee for listings in the buy / sell subforum - charge a percentage of the listing in the buy / sell subforum - free items are of course free to list - for a fee, allow a listing in the buy / sell subforum to be shown as a site advertisement I don't know what would be amenable to everyone, but these are just ideas... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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