rensoup Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) On 7/27/2022 at 4:26 PM, rdefabri said: Not sure if this was mentioned (or if this is the right thread to post in), but would something like Labyrinth be of interest to port to the A8? Seems there's already a game by that name from Broderbund (which, I've come to realize, released really great quality software on the A8... and I'm not saying that solely because of PoP!) Edited July 28, 2022 by rensoup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdefabri Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Seems there's already a game by that name from Broderbund (which, I've come to realize, released really great quality software on the A8... and I'm not saying that solely because of PoP!) Oh yes, I know that game Labyrinth - I meant the Lucasfilm game Labyrinth. But - yes, there are some really great games, especially the new stuff!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 9 hours ago, rdefabri said: Lucasfilm game Labyrinth This can be seen as a bit of a stepping stone from the scaled & animated cell sprites found in the Eidolon and Maniac Mansion and so I'd still feel that the port of the ScummVm (that harnessed the A8 graphic capabilities due to the 128 limitation of the charset) would be a noble aim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 9 hours ago, Wrathchild said: This can be seen as a bit of a stepping stone from the scaled & animated cell sprites found in the Eidolon and Maniac Mansion and so I'd still feel that the port of the ScummVm (that harnessed the A8 graphic capabilities due to the 128 limitation of the charset) would be a noble aim They'd have to re write the whole engine to suite the Atari's hardware better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, emkay said: the whole engine don't talk nonsense, the script interpretation and variable manipulation is independent of the audio and graphics, i.e. it could run things, e.g. the intro, without showing anything Edited July 29, 2022 by Wrathchild scripting -> script interpretation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Wrathchild said: don't talk nonsense, the script interpretation and variable manipulation is independent of the audio and graphics, i.e. it could run things, e.g. the intro, without showing anything OK. So have fun playing a game that is based on the special graphics and sound system without graphics and sound ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 30, 2022 Author Share Posted July 30, 2022 On 7/29/2022 at 2:22 AM, rdefabri said: Oh yes, I know that game Labyrinth - I meant the Lucasfilm game Labyrinth. But - yes, there are some really great games, especially the new stuff!! Had never heard of it... looks a little peculiar and perfectly doable on the A8 (though I've got something else in mind) On 7/29/2022 at 12:24 PM, Wrathchild said: This can be seen as a bit of a stepping stone from the scaled & animated cell sprites found in the Eidolon and Maniac Mansion and so I'd still feel that the port of the ScummVm (that harnessed the A8 graphic capabilities due to the 128 limitation of the charset) would be a noble aim It's been mentioned a while back, but I believe anything beyond Maniac mansion would look terrible because of the 5 colours limit (sure you could use limited palette switches, it would still look crap) ( I found out recently that SCUMM was available on linux, the number of games it supports is staggering!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 finally someone took up SCUMM on Atari. Thanks !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, rensoup said: Had never heard of it... looks a little peculiar and perfectly doable on the A8 (though I've got something else in mind) It's been mentioned a while back, but I believe anything beyond Maniac mansion would look terrible because of the 5 colours limit (sure you could use limited palette switches, it would still look crap) ( I found out recently that SCUMM was available on linux, the number of games it supports is staggering!) Every time it comes to this type of arguing , I just have to post that Image. Particular "Labyrinth" is a game changer, as the Sprites are huge and have their special look and move very smooth. You won't get that with just Character mode fiddling... Using the "overlay mode" as the Atari offers it best, the big moving objects have to be build on Charset mode, while most of the background has to be set with PMg multiplexing. The details of the "background may vary by the use of free CPU and/or regions where the moving objects don't move. Or accept that some details may get lost, when the moving object crosses dedicated ranges. For some imagination how big the "Sprites are, here is a pixel exact "picture in picture" of a C64 game screen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, rensoup said: I found out recently that SCUMM was available on linux, the number of games it supports is staggering I thought it would be hard to create a shock like a PoP release, but SCUMM is going to be a knockout. A great choice, even if it will only be tailored to one game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 19 hours ago, rensoup said: ( I found out recently that SCUMM was available on linux, the number of games it supports is staggering!) Pretty sure ScummVM started on Linux. Could be wrong about that though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, leech said: Pretty sure ScummVM started on Linux. Could be wrong about that though. That sounds about right. There's a recollection of it having been Slashdotted at one point rattling around in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdefabri Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Not sure this was posted, but Sonic the Hedgehog was introduced for the C64 - looks excellent... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Both Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 On 8/12/2022 at 9:31 PM, rdefabri said: Not sure this was posted, but Sonic the Hedgehog was introduced for the C64 - looks excellent... It IS excellent. However, it needs those damn hard to get REU (RamExpansionUnit) to run. These RamUnits have/give DMA Excess. RamExpansions were not as common on Commodore Computers, as it was on Atari (Community) Stefan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 14, 2022 Author Share Posted August 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Stefan Both said: It IS excellent. However, it needs those damn hard to get REU (RamExpansionUnit) to run. These RamUnits have/give DMA Excess. RamExpansions were not as common on Commodore Computers, as it was on Atari (Community) Stefan Agreed, must have been quite an effort to port all the z80 code too... Never was that much into Sonic myself... And those REU make the C64 a different beast altogether. I'd say extra RAM is fair but only if the original requires a lot of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Agreed, must have been quite an effort to port all the z80 code too... Never was that much into Sonic myself... And those REU make the C64 a different beast altogether. I'd say extra RAM is fair but only if the original requires a lot of it. On the bright side there are many ways to get the REU these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 REU has the advantage of DMA based transfers which we don't have (and probably can't without internal modification first) But the C64 REU doesn't allow any type of banked access to the extra RAM like our 130XE style schemes, and no seperate/special access for VIC either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 10 hours ago, Rybags said: REU has the advantage of DMA based transfers which we don't have (and probably can't without internal modification first) Excuse my ignorance but isn't bank switching faster than DMA based transfer (if less flexible)? Does the DMA transfer take place while the CPU is working on something else or is the system halted for DMA transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 DMA transfer requires free cycles. The 6502 definition of a free cycle is generally when the video chip isn't accessing memory. 6502 will attempt to use every other cycle, so for DMA it will get halted. Banking is instant but all you are doing is changing among 16K snapshots. But DMA allows selective memory copies almost like a blitter, so is more flexible and can be used for things like scrolling. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Both Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 On 8/15/2022 at 1:42 AM, leech said: On the bright side there are many ways to get the REU these days. Well... there is ONE way, that I am aware of. One way without those special REU custom chip at least. https://github.com/jburrell7/REUPlusC2 I build it myself and it seems to work. However, is it the strange situation on the chip market, or just an european problem... To get all the parts collected, to build this wonderful hardware... is a pain in the ass. I would be happy, if you could point me to a "easier" solution in terms of availability or pricing of parts. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 On 8/16/2022 at 3:28 AM, Rybags said: Banking is instant but all you are doing is changing among 16K snapshots. But DMA allows selective memory copies almost like a blitter, so is more flexible and can be used for things like scrolling. Indeed! On 8/15/2022 at 6:09 PM, slx said: Excuse my ignorance but isn't bank switching faster than DMA based transfer (if less flexible)? Does the DMA transfer take place while the CPU is working on something else or is the system halted for DMA transfer? Bank switching is fast and a lot less flexible (on the A8) If you want to update a character screen for instance, chances are your graphics chip won't be able to use those extended banks directly. So it needs to be copied back into the main 64KB. On the A8, that would be with a slow CPU copy. On the C64 with a REU it would be a lot faster thanks to its DMA. Usually DMA is non blocking (essentially free in theory) so you can do other things in the meantime. On the NES, it looks like the video chip can see the extended banks which is more flexible and allows for massive graphics cheats by just switching banks! Awesome NES char anims compilation: https://rabidrodent.neocities.org/nes-chr/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 17, 2022 Author Share Posted August 17, 2022 Quote Hello all!I'm a noob on Atari, bought an 800XL some time ago and an AtariMax MyIDE ][ cart. It works great and can load a lot of games and enjoy the great 8 bits world.As an old apple II user, I love Prince of Persia, and learned about the remake for Atari. It looks amazing, and want to try that. After reading a lot, found that adding memory to my 800XL would allow me to run the game. After buying a memory expansion (320k RAM memory upgrade that plugs into the Parallel Bus port). Tested with Simcheck and shows the extra memory. Loaded the "AtariMax" version CAR into my Card, and ran it. I get an error, "File exceeds maximum allowed size". So it looks like myIde is an Atarimax product ? I'm going to guess it only supports its own banking scheme (128KB/ 1MB) and not the megacart one(256KB)... which means it won't be able to keep inside its 512KB RAM (even though PoP only needs 256KB, it has to use the 1MB format for Atarimax) It's so weird that Atarimax only put 512KB of RAM in myIde and doesn't have a 512KB banking scheme. So like others said, try using the disc (ATR) version? I'm going to guess it will load at regular disc speed. The only difference between the CAR and ATR version is the beautiful ending picture featuring your friendly mouse. I drew it myself and it was unani-mously- approved by the AA crowds. Hopefully you'll find the A8 version enjoyable! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javmaster Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, rensoup said: So it looks like myIde is an Atarimax product ? I'm going to guess it only supports its own banking scheme (128KB/ 1MB) and not the megacart one(256KB)... which means it won't be able to keep inside its 512KB RAM (even though PoP only needs 256KB, it has to use the 1MB format for Atarimax) It's so weird that Atarimax only put 512KB of RAM in myIde and doesn't have a 512KB banking scheme. So like others said, try using the disc (ATR) version? I'm going to guess it will load at regular disc speed. The only difference between the CAR and ATR version is the beautiful ending picture featuring your friendly mouse. I drew it myself and it was unani-mously- approved by the AA crowds. Hopefully you'll find the A8 version enjoyable! Thank you for your quick response. Tried the DD version, and I did a quick video to show the result: Edited August 17, 2022 by Javmaster Added Simcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javmaster Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 More files tested: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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