Question: The economics of emulation

[The Eidolon]

This is another open-ended question where all opinions are welcome:

 

Are emulators generally a good or bad thing for the video game

industry, from an economic perspective?

 

My guess is that emulators are probably a boon to the video game

makers, at least as far as classic games go. Since the original

games are often hard to come by or require hardware most casual

users won't have available, emulators will expose people to games

they have never seen or haven't had the opportunity to play in years.

 

I think in this case supply will create demand--as one plays more classic

games on emulators, one is more likely to want to buy either a classic

system so as to experience the games as they were intended or buy

modern re-releases so as to support that niche. Certainly all of the

arcade "classic" re-releases on Playstation seem to have come out

around the same time that emulation became widespread.

 

Unfortunately, the lawyers are so concerned about safegaurding their

intellectual property that they can at best turn a blind eye to the

emulation (and reproductions, for that matter) scene. Thus many

quality games are commercially unavailable for love or money unless

one has great patience (and $$$) to track down a used copy of the original.

 

I guess one way to test my theory would be: Has the price of classic

game carts gone up or down as emulation of the systems that play

those carts becomes widespread? Have people become more likely

or less likely to buy the real thing?

 

This long-winded post brought to you by:

--The Eidolon

[chrisbid]

i think the fact that its available, makes companies trying to make a buck off of old games include a lot of extras and bonus materials that cant be found in a packet of ROMs.

[Raijin Z]

Emulation is bad for the industry. If emulators and roms weren't so omnipresent, people would actually pay money for rereleases of games, and you might actually see third party e-cards. You can care or not, just don't try to justify it. It's no better than downloading MP3s, or OGGs, or whichever codec you prefer.

[Ze_ro]

In most cases, I use emulators more as a substitute for rentals than as a substitute for buying games. I'll play a game on the GBA emulator, and if it's good, I'll buy it... if it sucks, I'll delete the rom. For the most part, emulators aren't good enough to be a replacement in my opinion.

 

I realize however, that I'm in the minority in this position.

 

--Zero

[NovaXpress]

I treat game emulators the same way I treat downloaded music.

 

It's a great way to test out the product, but if you want top quality then you should purchase the real thing. MP3s are a poor emulation of recorded music, so if I like an album I try on Kazaa then I want the real one. Emulators by definition are not the real thing and will never play or look quite as well as the store-offered version.

[Raijin Z]

MP3s are a poor emulation of recorded music, so if I like an album I try on Kazaa then I want the real one.

Depends on the bit depth. Regardless, LPs are the best. CDs don't do high frequency.

[MegaManFan]

Nova hit the nail on the head - if I play a game in emulation and like it enough, I'm more than happy to go out and find a copy of the cart locally, on eBay, or in trade. Sometimes I'm even forced to shell out good money to do so, but ah well - nothing beats actually playing it on a console. Even the best emulators only go so far.

[Ze_ro]

MP3s are a poor emulation of recorded music, so if I like an album I try on Kazaa then I want the real one.

Depends on the bit depth. Regardless, LPs are the best. CDs don't do high frequency.

 

44kHz isn't good enough for you?

 

--Zero

[Raijin Z]

48's better.

[NovaXpress]

Digital recodings cannot be as rich as analog. If you play a CD next to an LP on a good turntable you can see how the vinyl is superior.

 

Digital is good enough for me though. Years of heavy metal/punk concerts have destroyed my hearing nayway.

[Hydian]

I don't feel that emulation hurts anything. If the emulator is for an out of production system, then the manufacturer isn't making any money on it to lose. Let's be serious, Atari isn't losing anything if you play 2600 games on an emulator. In some cases, emulation is the only way you'll ever see the game.

 

Compilations? Emulators aren't likely to affect that at all and could even boost those sales. The emulation scene is much smaller and less mainstream than the mp3 scene.

 

Emulation for current systems is a bit more tricky. In the end, however, if it has a legitimate use you shouldn't stop it (this was precident until the DMCA was drafted and ignored all laws and precidents.) The people who make something are not responsible for how people misuse it.

 

As far as MP3's, they aren't even CD quality which isn't even vinyl quality so I don't see the issue on that count. I used to buy lots of CD's based mostly on music I found on MP3 (long before Napster...never liked the music swapping networks...they all stink.) Now I don't buy any CD's unless they are indies or local bands, purely because of the actions of the RIAA.

 

I have broadband and I could download movies too, but I don't. I'd rather buy the DVD's (and I own over 200 of them.) There is a lot of added value with DVD's. Maybe the music industry could learn something from that (they wont.)

[+DamonicFury]

I really love emulation because it allows you to play games that wouldn't like ever see any kind of re-release. Despite the availability of emulation, I do support re-released classic gaming material (see my review of the Namco Arcade TV games in this thread)

 

My dream would be that the copyright owners of classic games would start to recognize the interest in their older products and offer top quality products based on them. And (now I'm REALLY dreaming) along with the product, you would recieve the legal right to use the original ROM's (preferably included with the product when practical) for use in whichever emulator you see fit. It's not utterly impossible... heck, the re-released version of Combat came with the Stella emulator and the original Combat and Combat 2 roms! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about... why not get a copy of MAME and the associated roms when buying the latest Namco, Atari, or Midway collection as well?

 

The thing companies (music, games, etc.) repeatedly fail to realize is that they make money because people truly love their products and WANT to buy them. Sure there will always be pirates, but they aren't the mainstream. Offer a reasonably priced alternative to piracy, and the customers will be there. By instead treating their customers like thieves and denying the urge for a quality alternative, they are just turning away business.

[Happy_Dude]

CDs don't do high frequency.

I imidiatly heard the pac-man dying sound in my head when I read that

Vinyl doesn't do high frquencies. CD's don't do BASS. it's a trade off.

 

Put it this way, How many record players have Bass boost compared to CD players ?

 

 

As for emulation, I like to try before I buy. I own a lot of games I simply

wouldn't have thought to buy, because I already knew I liked them

[Raijin Z]

Put it this way, How many record players have Bass boost compared to CD players ?

 

[Avid Fan]

But how does vinyl (and I'm a vinyl fan) compare to a DVD-A. I would bet the DVD-A blows it away.

And why do so many people look down on MP3s? You know all of you used to buy blank tapes to record movies off of HBO, or to copy your friends albums? If they wanted to bitch about piracy, I think during the tape age there was a lot more piracy going on

[The Eidolon]

Just a note: I was not trying to condone or condemn emulation and or

piracy at the start of the therad. I merely ask whether from the

commercial side of the business emulation should be viewed as a bad

thing. Could software makers increase their profits if they could

somehow stop emulation of a given system. (For modern systems,

my personal opinion is that emulation is a nightmare for commercial

makers, which is probably why they are most touchy about emulation

of current systems.)

 

Regarding the comment on MP3's vs. audio tapes above: Yes, both

media allow copying to share music with friends. However, it is so much

easier to make many copies of an MP3 and distribute them all around

the world than to copy audio tapes one at a time and physically

distribute them that the potential risk to music companies is much larger.

 

Of course, record companies would get more of my money if they would

promote something besides teem pop and boy bands once in a while...

 

--The Eidolon

[Hydian]

From a software maker's point of view, emulation could be very good.

 

For example, if I have a PS2 emulator for my PC, it would allow me to buy and play the games without all of the hardware. This could open up the software market to people who can't justify sinking $150-$200 in hardware. An emulator doesn't have to allow you to play with roms or images in this day of CD/DVD media.

 

Bleem! is a great example of what I'm talking about, both for the Mac/PC and Dreamcast. It didn't promote piracy (it didn't allow pirated games to be played IIRC.) It was a potential sales boost for the games. Of course, it got shut down in court because it does potentially hurt the hardware manufacturer. This comes back to my observations about the way that the video game market is locked up, which is a bad thing IMHO.

[Avid Fan]

Ya, true what you said about mp3s. But without MP3s, people will just use cd burners and burn entire albums instead of single songs

[Happy_Dude]

But how does vinyl (and I'm a vinyl fan) compare to a DVD-A. I would bet the DVD-A blows it away.

I'd bet that too

But for me the tactility of the media and the warmth of analog sound is just

so much better than anything thats been digitized/steralized.

[Vectrex-Atari]

But how does vinyl (and I'm a vinyl fan) compare to a DVD-A. I would bet the DVD-A blows it away.

I'd bet that too

But for me the tactility of the media and the warmth of analog sound is just

so much better than anything thats been digitized/steralized.

 

I agree. Listining to Led Zeppelin on Vinyl is so much better than CD. The sound is richer and fuller.

 

I run my MCS 6500 Turntable through a MCS 300 watt amplifier, MCS equilizer, and MCS 3 way speakers (ceramic tweeter, soft dome midrange, 15" woofer) with built in crossovers. You aint heard the power of this bi**h

[Room 34]

Emulation is bad for the industry. If emulators and roms weren't so omnipresent, people would actually pay money for rereleases of games, and you might actually see third party e-cards. You can care or not, just don't try to justify it. It's no better than downloading MP3s, or OGGs, or whichever codec you prefer.

 

I would say that using emulators is NOT the same as downloading MP3s. If you're using the emulator to play games that are not commercially available, it's quite a bit different from downloading MP3s of the latest new release CD that you could go down to Best Buy and purchase.

 

I am opposed to the idea of downloading and running modern games that are still commercially available in an emulator... just like I'm against downloading music that is commercially available.

 

But I don't have a problem with downloading arcade ROMs or Atari 2600 ROMs of games that have not been commercially available for 20 years and were produced by companies that have been out of business for almost as long.

[Artlover]

Resolution quick list.

 

LP = 5Hz to 35KHz. This is assuming you're using a high-end cartridge like a MC AT33 or Shure V15 or something, most low-priced (anything less then a $100) cartridges/needles are typically 20Hz-20Khz.

 

CD = 0Hz to 20 or 22KHz. Most digital media tends to fall in this limit, including popular file formats like mp3.

 

DVD-A = 0Hz to 96KHz. This is therotical if using 2 channel @ max bit/rate, but in most typical configurations the high-end resolution is going to be between 20 & 48KHz)

 

So yeah, DVD-Audio seems like a big step forward for digital audio. Given that it has a decent frequency responce now. I bet zeppelin would sound just as sweet as vinal on this. I'd love to hear it.

[Room 34]

It looks to me like you're mixing up the audible frequency range and the sample rate.

 

It makes no sense to talk about a sample rate with analog recordings... the sample rate is infinite and continuous.

 

Most humans can hear frequencies in a range (roughly) of 20 Hz to 20 kHz. The standard sample rate for CDs is 44.1 kHz, which means there are 44,100 sample "slices" per second. The standard sample rate for DVDs is 96 kHz, meaning 96,000 samples per second. But those sample frequencies have nothing to do with the audible pitch frequencies they can play.

[Raijin Z]

Exactamundo.

[Paralistalon]

Nintendo doesn't make any money off their NES, SNES, or N64 games anymore. The only people making money off that stuff are GameStops and the like.

 

I don't see how emulating "dead" systems hurts the video game industry. I agree with chrisbid when he said:

i think the fact that its available, makes companies trying to make a buck off of old games include a lot of extras and bonus materials that cant be found in a packet of ROMs.

 

Emulating and downloading ROMs for current systems could definitely hurt the video game industry. Burned games are also bad.

 

You can get plenty of information from a gaming magazine, and most video game shops have a 10-day return policy if you don't like the game.