alfredtdk Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Considering it is still v0.02, some real consoles run differently, in my Vader rev.17 the shields just don't appear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) I hadn't tested on real hardware yet, but I have the same effect. The problem is, that Harmony doesn't support the bankswitching (4KSC). I have created an F8SC version (V0.3, see first post). This should work with Harmony. Edited June 15, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: I hadn't tested on real hardware yet, but I have the same effect. The problem is, that Harmony doesn't support the bankswitching (4KSC). I have created an F8SC version (V0.3, see first post). This should work with Harmony. V0.3 confirmed as working on UnoCart, Harmony and Harmony Encore. Yeah Baby, Yeah! Noticed the following while testing on my Toshiba and SONY CRTs: - The top couple of lines are cut off (see pics and attached video). - Also noticed a bit of screen roll (please see video). The game is looking great. Thanks for the latest ROM Thomas.? SIA Screen Roll.MOV 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I hate to tell you this, but the 2600 cannot display 11 items in a scanline. I claim Photoshop! Fake news! Sorry if in poor taste - but as an Atari user since 1977 (even though I was 2 - LOL) this stuff is so beyond amazing to me. All kidding aside, family did get our 1st 2600 in 77 (USA Heavy Sixer) and I got my 400 in 1982. I am more impressed by the new stuff our beloved 8-bits are doing in 2020 than I am by the new hardware available now. Fantastic work to all involved! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Looks great. I encountered the shield collision thing mentioned earlier, but looks promising so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredtdk Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 V0.1 with shields,V0.2 not shields, V0.3 with shields! Tested with UnoCart on my Sony CRT and Atari Vader rev.17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 4 hours ago, alfredtdk said: V0.1 with shields,V0.2 not shields, V0.3 with shields! Tested with UnoCart on my Sony CRT and Atari Vader rev.17 Same reason as for Harmony. V0.1 had static shields loaded from ROM, V0.2/0.3 load from extended RAM and no flash cart supports the scheme (4KSC) yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, sramirez2008 said: Noticed the following while testing on my Toshiba and SONY CRTs: - The top couple of lines are cut off (see pics and attached video). Thanks for testing. Looks like your Toshiba TV has a lot of overscan, displaying only very few lines. Has the Sony the same problem? I can move the top of the screen a few rows down, but maybe the bottom line will not show anymore on your TV then. Edited June 16, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: 6 hours ago, sramirez2008 said: Thanks for testing. Looks like your Toshiba TV has a lot of overscan, displaying only very few lines. Has the Sony the same problem? Yes. Same issue on each TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 15 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Looks like your Toshiba TV has a lot of overscan, Point taken. I brought out my 1702 and the game looks absolutely gorgeous on it.? Can't wait to see the next update. 1702 Video.MOV 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Andrew Davie Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 7:22 AM, sramirez2008 said: Point taken. I brought out my 1702 and the game looks absolutely gorgeous on it.? Can't wait to see the next update. As a developer, I really appreciate when people like you take the time to run the game on actual hardware, and especially when you report bugs. The screenshots are not only useful, but I personally get a kick seeing "my baby" running on an actual Atari -- somewhere else in the world. I just wanted to say that this sort of involvement from the community helps us developers big time - not only for finding issues and bugs, but also it's really motivating to see that people are following our work. So... thanks to you all. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Andrew Davie said: As a developer, I really appreciate when people like you take the time to run the game on actual hardware, and especially when you report bugs. The screenshots are not only useful, but I personally get a kick seeing "my baby" running on an actual Atari -- somewhere else in the world. I just wanted to say that this sort of involvement from the community helps us developers big time - not only for finding issues and bugs, but also it's really motivating to see that people are following our work. So... thanks to you all. /signed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: /signed All of the thanks goes to you (dev's) guys. I'm just happy to be able to help in any small way that I can. I have several consoles and CRTs and normally test with two 2600's and a 7800 for comparison. I also have an original Harmony, Harmony Encore and UnoCart, so that helps too. Looks like I'll need to utilize my 1702 monitor more, as that provides the best picture. Thanks again. I'm grateful that you all have a passion to continue to make games for our beloved consoles.? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said: I have several consoles and CRTs and normally test with two 2600's and a 7800 for comparison. I also have an original Harmony, Harmony Encore and UnoCart, so that helps too. Any test of our software is more than welcome (and this includes Stella too*). * Maybe you (and anyone who is interested) can have a look at this issue and provide some test results? It is pretty odd an we are still trying to analyze. The more tests we can get, the more likely we can identify the root cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Any test of our software is more than welcome (and this includes Stella too*). * Maybe you (and anyone who is interested) can have a look at this issue and provide some test results? It is pretty odd an we are still trying to analyze. The more tests we can get, the more likely we can identify the root cause. Interesting. I should have some time this weekend to test.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+McCallister Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Any test of our software is more than welcome (and this includes Stella too*). * Maybe you (and anyone who is interested) can have a look at this issue and provide some test results? It is pretty odd an we are still trying to analyze. The more tests we can get, the more likely we can identify the root cause. I'm someone who' interested. Can you tell me what I am looking for, or what I am supposed to take a picture of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, McCallister said: Can you tell me what I am looking for, or what I am supposed to take a picture of? Pixel 79 (the one left of the middle of the screen) sticks out. It has a different color. If you can see it (partially, complete, on/off...), please take a picture or video (and maybe add a brief description) of the game screen where the color artifact should be most obvious. Also please tell us your hardware setup. Thanks! BTW: If your system has no color artifact, we don't need a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Well, none of my systems exhibited the color artifact. I tested via Harmony, Harmony Encore and UnoCart with a Toshiba CRT and again using my 1702 monitor. Here's a list consoles I tested with. 2600 A - 4 Switch Woody - Modified (Composite, S-Video) 2600 CR - 4 Switch Vader 2600 Sears Light Sixer - Modified (Composite) 2600 Atari Light Sixer 2600 Atari Heavy Sixer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+McCallister Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 None of my tests showed that artifact, either. I tested with just two systems: Heavy Sixer on an old tube tv (knobs, dials, no rf jack) 4 switch vader modded, on a modern crt with svideo. As for Space Invaders, looks great, plays well. I would suggest moving the screen one line down, the top was slightly cutoff on mine, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Interesting. Might be rarer than I thought. Thanks! I will make sure the SIA screen is centered well. Edited June 19, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredtdk Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Scores are not cut on monitors or emulators, but on CRT televisions the problem should certainly occur, below for comparison the photo of the Stella emulator and my Sony CRT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dionoid Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 Thanks for explaining the kernel code, Thomas! The RESP trick is on my 'have to look into'-list for a few months, and this helps understanding this cool little TIA quirk. I think it first appeared in Galaxian, right? Running and modifying the kernel code in RAM is also really clever; for C64 programmers this is normal practice, but when you only have 128 bytes, this makes it much more challenging ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd-w Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 39 minutes ago, Dionoid said: Thanks for explaining the kernel code, Thomas! The RESP trick is on my 'have to look into'-list for a few months, and this helps understanding this cool little TIA quirk. I think it first appeared in Galaxian, right? Yes - I believe Galaxian was the first game to use the RESPx trick. There is a great explanation in this thread. The TIA notes by Andrew Towers also provide a lot of detail, but can be a little hard to follow. Chris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 1:20 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said: If you can see it (partially, complete, on/off...), please take a picture or video (and maybe add a brief description) of the game screen where the color artifact should be most obvious. Also please tell us your hardware setup. Thanks! This artifact? If so I encountered it back in 2012 while developing Space Rocks, has something to do with SCORE mode. It's present in this build and occurs on my light sixer, but not my 7800. It's not present in the final version - the overhang after the score was significantly larger than the overhang before lives remaining, since the digits could not be moved towards the middle so I shortened the lines for aesthetic reasons. May 28, 2012 build Final build 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SpiceWare said: This artifact? Exactly. It seems like in score mode the PF color timings are faster. Edited June 20, 2020 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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