SIDE 3 preorder

[drac030]

Okay, I have this:

 

Basic_XE_v4.2_(1986-02-09)(OSS)(US)L.zip

 

They are indeed different: the first and the last 4k in both files are the same, and the remaining ones appear to be reversed.

[flashjazzcat]

Interesting. That one does indeed work when mounted as type 034M, and I get this after pressing some random keys when the extension splash screen fails to disappear:

GR.0 gets rid of it just the same, though.

[ebiguy]

@drac030 and @flashjazzcat My 2 cents: be sure about the execution environment Peter is using.

I mean that he mentioned my work a few times in the previous posts.

At the end of the day, with all these posts, I am lost and I am not sure if he is using my modified Basic XE for Side 2 along with the modified Basic XE extension renamed BASICXA.OSS or a stock Basic XE cartridge along with the stock BASICXE.OSS.

BTW, I have no time right now to get deeper in this topic (just a side note for Peter).

 

[flashjazzcat]

Version 0.22 of the SIDE3 loader is available for download here:

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3/

 

Note this is a development version with some experimental departures (user interface, etc), but does contain several fixes over prior versions.

• Sixteen line filename/menu display
• Improved navigation and screen update speed
• Improved scroll bar rendering
• Fix for OSS 043M cartridge emulation
• Fix for MaxFlash 128K (1Mbit) emulation
• Displays 'BIN' file types
• Ability to set on-board real time clock (will be required for FAT writes)
• Underpinnings of WIP FAT-writes put in place (note: write capability is not yet active)
• ‘Hard emulation’ setting added (completely disables SIDE3 registers until menu button is pressed)

I have three development branches running in parallel at the moment in order to evaluate what works out best (and much indecision and changes of mind result from this), so expect to see quite a lot of rapid-fire changes over the coming weeks. FAT writes are a high priority, since they will allow dynamic creation of INI files (containing auto-run scripts, etc), the creation of blank ATRs without resorting to the PC, saving files from XEXs launched directly from the loader, etc.

 

SW-XEGS emulation fixes still depend on deployment of the FPGA (JED) update referred to previously, and there are a couple of other changes too (the HDD LED will no longer stay lit when the RTC is displayed in the Options menu, for example), but we will not be rushed to deploy the FPGA update until we know the likelihood of accidental bricking is low.

 

As usual, please do not proceed with the loader update if the flasher does not show sensible information for the current loader version and revision date (this will mean you have some cartridge or SDX ROM in the way). I will write more copious release notes tomorrow, since I have finally run out of time and energy for tonight.

 

5 minutes ago, ebiguy said:

At the end of the day, with all these posts, I am lost

Yes: that is the other thing. Ever shifting sands, so to speak. Thanks.

 

[drac030]

Attached lightly patched BXE 4.2 (to not insist on listing "D1:*.*" when given DIR without arguments). May work, use at own risk etc.

 

Also, the extension disk I have appears to be slightly different: it says (c) 1994 OSS (whence I guess it is really FTe), and the *.OSS binary file is 11283 bytes. The other one I have says (c) 1985 OSS and its length is 11288 bytes.

 

When playing with the extensions it is is good to do SET CAR first (i.e. delete the variable), because I am not sure if all the relevant memory is dumped to CAR.SAV.

bxe42p.zip BASIC_XE_Extension_disk.atr

[KPeter]

Drac030,

 

I downloaded again, what Jon put it above. Unfortunately, same result, of course, with that SDX 4.49e version what I received

from trub, he wrote to try it for my own risk. Of course, I would like to test things if it is possible. I am testing with intention

to report, if I find something. If you accept my "complaints" it will help you if it is really a bug in the SW. My intention is not

to criticize your work, your efforts!

 

So, I attached a ZIP file with photos and videos to explain my findings:

 

1) Video: Cold Start of SIDE3-SDX449e.mp4

    You can see, it is not booting correctly. Does not matter, it is the SDX449e from April, or trub's (alpha) version.

    The differences between older and (alpha) are in using TD ON/OFF together with SIDE3CLK.SYS - in previous version missing.

    a) In previous e version I could not use TD ON/OFF

    b) latest e version it works, but the initialization of TIME and DATE after entering data ends with frozen system, ATARI should be restarted by its Power switch.

        The entered Date and Time is correctly defined, despite of crash of their definition!

    c) Going to U1MB setup and leaving it with B pushed, the system is not starting with SDX449e, the rolling BOOT ERROR is on the monitor.

        Pushing SIDE3 Reset and in sequence the ATARI Reset leads to normal initialization of SpartaDOS.

2) Video: BASIC XE 4_2 with TD ON (finally with that, what Jon gave here today also) behave equivalently.

    a) The Config.sys file: CONFIGSYS.JPG with SIDE3CLK.SYS and in AUTOEXEC.BAT "TD ON".

    b) The picture is synchronously blinking with mosaics on screen.

    c) Any BASIC command leads crash (ATARI Freezes). Reset ATARI: wrong re-boot of SDX.

3) Picture: SIDE3-TD OFF.JPG no SIDE3CLK set in Config.sys and TD OFF in AUTOEXEC.BAT

    a) The BASIC XE Starts correctly, no blinking monitor, but still the whole system freezes, same like in 2)

    b) With SDX 4.49e from April 2020 BASIC XE 4.2 works perfectly with its Extension file from ATR image.

        For test I also ran that CTESTNTSC.BAS program with success, what I sent to Eric Botcher to find errors

        in BASIC XE 4.1 Extension file.

4) Picture: Starting BASIC XE (from Jon).JPG just showing the folder with files, what Jon sent me around a month ago.

    No changes, modification on files, used "as is". Above explained, it crashes with (alfa) version of SDX 4.49e received from trub,

    but correctly working with previous SDX 4.49e.

5) Picture: SIDE2+SDX449+BASIC XE 4.1 - showing nicely functional BASIC XE 4.1 with Extension File of BASICXA.OSS.

    I do not see differencess between functionality of BASIC XE 4.2 with Extension under SDX 449e from April and BASIC XE 4.1 with

    SIDE2's SDX449 OSS cartridge.

 

I hope it explains what I am talking about and why asking for new updates on SIDE3 and from DLT group.

 

Thank you, for understanding,

Peter

Drac030.zip

[drac030]

Ok, both extension versions I have (years 1985 and 1994) are for BXE 4.1 and this is why they do not load under 4.2. The BASICXE.OSS file contains direct calls to the cartridge addresses which in 4.2 contain something different. Like jsr $b57d which for 4.2 should be jsr $b58f.

 

So this question is settled. I am just surprised that OSS demonstrated such amateurishness (one could expect that the extension binary would at least check the cartridge version number before making direct call, but no...). Maybe it was some different OSS, then.

 

@KPeter I will take a look at the material you provide, but I must say first (which probably is not clear for the public) that I am not involved in SIDE3 development. If there is a general issue in SDX which applies to all builds, I can fix that, but as you saw, other builds boot properly, work with TD properly and run BXE properly. So it seems that the problems you are observing are confined to the SIDE3 hardware management code, which is @trub's department and I am a bystander only

Edited November 30, 2020 by drac030

[KPeter]

Just forgot to add the following.

 

The only thing is different between BASIC XE 4.1 with SIDE2 and SDX449 and BASIC XE 4.2 with SDX 4.49e from April 2020,

the SIDE2 version of BASIC XE 4.1 is re-startable in any situation, from re-boot (Turning ON ATARI, or leaving U1MB setup).

The cartridge, defined before stays there.

 

With original SDX 4.49e if I leave BASIC XE 4.2 with DOS command and start it again with CAR command, it works perfectly.

If I go to U1MB and leave it pushing B or I just push RESET on ATARI, tha CAR command leads to crash of new start of BASIC XE.

 

Peter

[drac030]

@KPeter when entering BXE after a cold reboot, if you loaded extensions before, make sure you first delete the CAR variable from the environment. That is, type SET CAR at the DOS prompt then press Return. And then enter the BXE.

[KPeter]

OK DRAC030, I will experiment with files what you posted here. I know very well, the work on SIDE3 is not your job, really, I do not have clear picture about people related

to different parts of this project. It is more complicated, than the projects before, so understandable it needs more time and effort to clean it up from "bugs". I am following

the things and after long quiet period I just dared to ask about the progress, evidently irritated people ... so sad, unfortunately I reacted also irritated.

My intention was different and peaceful, did not expected aggressive answers/reaction and what's more, impertinently saying some people into this communication, who was

not addressed in. We are not in the jungle, I guess.

 

Thank you for your patience,

Peter

[drac030]

To end the BXE Extension thread - the BXE 4.2 Extension disk:

 

BXE42EXT.ARC

 

It says version 4.20, (c) 1986 OSS. And works, I was able to run that SHOWPIC.BXE demo program.

[KPeter]

Thank you, I will tex it also, currently I ran files, what you put there previously with BXE42p. The D1: was defined from SD card in SIDE3. I try to upload pictures, also tried SHOWPIC.BXE . The loading of extension file starts and freezes on monitor, but pushing Reset on ATARI the Basic starts with "Ready". Looks like functional, but the program stops at line 1270.

 

Using Dir command second time, the print of files was disturbed with colored squares and picture was jumping.

 

Peter

[KPeter]

>> Version 0.22 of the SIDE3 loader is available for download here:

 

Thank you Jon, I downloaded it.

 

Peter

[Kamil]

Side3 loader v. 0.19

Pbi 3.11RC

Mounted . atr is read-only (btw. His Dark Majesty, ...)

In Side2 that was OK: read-write.

Kamil

[Kamil]

I see that it is version 0.22. I'll try.

[flashjazzcat]

8 minutes ago, Kamil said:

Pbi 3.11RC

Sounds like you have the wrong PBI BIOS (should be v.0.03, v.0.04) and are quoting the main BIOS version number.

 

Make sure you update both the main BIOS and PBI BIOS, then enable the PBI HDD:

 

[KPeter]

Hello Trub or Drac030,

 

I would like to replace the SDX 4.49e (alpha) (what trub gave me in last day) with previous SDX 4.49e in SIDE3

Where can I find it?

 

Thank you,

Peter

[drac030]

@KPeter As I said above, I am not involved in SIDE3 development, so everything I can do here is to ping @trub Or maybe FJC will have a copy.

 

But I have also to say that I have talked to trub today and, if I understood correctly, he was saying that your problems with DATE/TIME are not reproducible on his machine. Yesterday we also seem to have determined that BXE problems disappear if a correct combination of BXE ROM and BXE Extension is used (BXE 4.2 + Extensions 4.20).

 

The only problem remaining is to determine if BXE can be warm restarted without reloading the extensions. I have not yet investigated that.

 

Also, crashes and general instabilities which are not reproducible in other machines/setups may indicate that there is a hardware problem with your setup.

 

This not necessarily means that something is broken. The thing that I learned over the years to be notoriously overlooked by users of expanded machines is the power supply. An Atari with memory upgrade, HDD and possibly other hardware installed requires more power than vanilla 800XL with 64k RAM and cassette recorder. So please first of all check, if yours is not 5V/1A. If so, please replace with something more capable (5V/2A should be enough).

[Mr Robot]

On 11/29/2020 at 3:10 PM, KPeter said:

Jon, do not humble yourself to the bottom. Hmmm!

 

Peter

Is your last name Meyer?

[KPeter]

1 minute ago, drac030 said:

@KPeter As I said above, I am not involved in SIDE3 development, so everything I can do here is to ping @trub Or maybe FJC will have a copy.

 

But I have also to say that I have talked to trub today and, if I understood correctly, he was saying that your problems with DATE/TIME are not reproducible on his machine. Yesterday we also seem to have determined that BXE problems disappear if a correct combination of BXE ROM and BXE Extension is used (BXE 4.2 + Extensions 4.20).

 

The only problem remaining is to determine if BXE can be warm restarted without reloading the extensions. I have not yet investigated that.

 

Also, crashes and general instabilities which are not reproducible in other machines/setups may indicate that there is a hardware problem with your setup.

 

This not necessarily means that something is broken. The thing that I learned over the years to be notoriously overlooked by users of expanded machines is the power supply. An Atari with memory upgrade, HDD and possibly other hardware installed requires more power than vanilla 800XL with 64k RAM and cassette recorder. So please first of all check, if yours is not 5V/1A. If so, please replace with something more capable (5V/2A should be enough).

Hi Drac030,

 

Did you try it on the stock ATARI or with Altirra Emulator?

I never use Emulator, because it is not really compatible with stock ATARI and the "good" result is misleading .

 

I made an experiment, using ULTIMATE Cart. I put in SD card there BASIC XE 4.2 (CAR) next to the original BASIC XE 4.1 (CAR)

Unfortunately both BASIC versions are using equally named Extension files of BASICXE.OSS. But they are different in code.

 

Both BASIC XEs are working correctly with own BASICXE.OSS extension files running from ULTIMATE Cart Menu.

If the extension files exchanged between version 4.1 and 4.2 both BASIC XE identically crash at initialization of BASIC from ULTIMATE Cart.

 

If I use BASIC XE 4.1 with its BASICXE.OSS from SIDE3 Loader, it wrongly behaves, totally like version 4.2. No differents.

 

It looks like, a wrong address adjustment is present in Extension file for SIDE3 Loader, but it is related also to SDX 4.49e

issue (alpha) version, what I installed from file, given by @trub a few days ago.

 

So, the symptom is the same under that SDX 4.49e, when the Ready is appearing in BASIC.

Any Basic command can be written, but after pushing RETURN, the system freezes.

Pushing ATARI Reset button does not help, similarly the pushing Reste button on SIDE3, only the switch on back of ATARI.

 

With previous version (what I would like to put back - but I do not know, how, because I do not have that file) the BASIC XE

was seemingly fully functional, expect when the ATARI Reset was pushed. After that the calling BASIC XE with CAR command, the system crashed.

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

[KPeter]

1 hour ago, Mr Robot said:

Is your last name Meyer?

Is it important? I guess, the forums are not the places for languages from pubs.

And finally we are not friends to accept it like a joke especially by the age differences between us.

Finally, I did not gave reason for it with my simple question on the beginning of the

whole "conversation".

 

So, it is sad. 

[KPeter]

2 hours ago, drac030 said:

The only problem remaining is to determine if BXE can be warm restarted without reloading the extensions. I have not yet investigated that.

Correct. It is the issue with that SDX 4.49e version what I had originally installed with UFLASH.XEX from Jon.  (say, virgin installation )

The TD freezing issue after entering the first Basic command is came up after replacing SDX 4.49e with (alpha) version from @trub given me

a few days ago. He wrote me, I have to use it by my own risk ... of corse, if I am experimenting/testing things, the risks are there with

not finalized software.

 

I tried to go back to the original version of SDX 4.49e by reinstalling U1MB, flashing to ROMs for SIDE3, but the trub's version of SDX 4.49e remained there ;(

 

By-the way: In previous post I forgot to mention, how could be tested, the extension file is correctly loaded:

 

a) without extension disk loaded, if you put: ?1/0 or PRINT 1/0  (division by ZERO) and push RETURN, you can see error message:

    Error - 11

b) if the extension file is correctly loaded, the result from the same Basic command will be:

    Error - 11

    Overflow/Underflow

 

Peter

[KPeter]

3 hours ago, drac030 said:

@KPeter As I said above, I am not involved in SIDE3 development, so everything I can do here is to ping @trub Or maybe FJC will have a copy.

 

But I have also to say that I have talked to trub today and, if I understood correctly, he was saying that your problems with DATE/TIME are not reproducible on his machine. Yesterday we also seem to have determined that BXE problems disappear if a correct combination of BXE ROM and BXE Extension is used (BXE 4.2 + Extensions 4.20).

 

The only problem remaining is to determine if BXE can be warm restarted without reloading the extensions. I have not yet investigated that.

 

Also, crashes and general instabilities which are not reproducible in other machines/setups may indicate that there is a hardware problem with your setup.

 

This not necessarily means that something is broken. The thing that I learned over the years to be notoriously overlooked by users of expanded machines is the power supply. An Atari with memory upgrade, HDD and possibly other hardware installed requires more power than vanilla 800XL with 64k RAM and cassette recorder. So please first of all check, if yours is not 5V/1A. If so, please replace with something more capable (5V/2A should be enough).

Videos attached here, showing, how the BASIC XE 4.2 behaves without BASICXE.OSS extension file.

Additionally a video about Action!.

Evidently the extension file includes errors. The blinking is probably from wrong handling of interrupt by SDX (I guess)

Stiil the SDX 4.49e (alpha) from trub.

 

Peter

BASIC XE without Extension File.zip

[drac030]

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

Did you try it on the stock ATARI or with Altirra Emulator?

Let us set three things straight:

 

1) I know what I am doing.

2) Out of us two, it is you who experiences issues, and it is me, who can possibly solve (a part of) them.

3) So, it is me who is asking questions and it is you who answers these questions (or not - but then do not have your problems solved).

 

Also, to repeat for the THIRD TIME, typeface bold: I AM NOT (N O T!!!) INVOLVED IN THE SIDE3 DEVELOPMENT. So it is not me to whom you should report issues with Side3 loader etc. It has nothing to do with SpartaDOS. I am interested ONLY in solving issues in SpartaDOS; and SpartaDOS in general, not in Side3 build of SpartaDOS (because, for the fourth time, I am not involved in SIDE3 development).

 

1 hour ago, KPeter said:

The TD freezing issue

No TD freezing issue here:

 

 

So, please provide short, concise and easy to follow steps to reproduce, best in the form of numbered list: 1) configure SDX so, 2) do that, 3) do this, 4) kaboom, crash. Otherwise this is going nowhere to.

20 minutes ago, KPeter said:

Evidently the extension file includes errors. The blinking is probably from wrong handling of interrupt by SDX (I guess)

The video is supposed to demonstrate the BXE behaviour without Extensions, if I am not mistaken. So how have you deduced from that behaviour that the Extension file contains errors? (It does not, by the way, at least the one I posted here yesterday, rev. 4.20).

 

20 minutes ago, KPeter said:

Additionally a video about Action!.

No Action. Focus on ONE issue at a time. So, go back to BXE (without Extensions loaded), so that you provoke the blinking. Then type this:

 

?PEEK(88)+256*PEEK(89)

 

(or ?DPEEK(88) if BXE has dpeek()).

 

And also this:

 

?PEEK(106)

 

Then report back.

Edited December 1, 2020 by drac030

[KPeter]

Thank you DRAC030 to move the issue to "SIDE3 preorder". I understood, you are not dealing with

SIDE3.

 

What you are asked for it is here: (of course, it works only without Extension file)

? DPEEK(88) is 31808 with SIDE3 Cartridge (SIDE3 Loader - BASIC XE 4.2 from Jon)

? DPEEK(88) is 40000 with ULTIMATE Cart   (SIDE3 Loader - BASIC XE 4.2 from Jon)

 

Attached the prove it is working correctly from ULTIMATE Cart under SDX 4.49

 

Peter

 

BXE_4.2_from_ULTIMATE_Cart.zip