eightbit Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I know its possible as people are posting around that they have done that (along with other things like 32X, stereo audio, etc). But why is this information so elusive? All I would like to do is restore SMS play ability to the Genesis 3. I am not concerned about any of the other mods. Does anyone know which wire (or wires?) I have to run for just SMS support? Here are some links that provide info on how to enable it ALL, but they do not break down what each connection is actually enabling: https://forums.terraonion.com/viewtopic.php?t=1387 https://www.retrorgb.com/genesis3.html I suspect only one wire will enable SMS support. But the question is, which one? Any help is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Pendleton Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 3 hours ago, eightbit said: But why is this information so elusive? Because everyone incorrectly thinks that the Genesis 3 is a piece of trash even though it isn't. Anyway, I have no idea how to do it, but since I have been thinking about getting a Genesis 3 with a triple bypass, I am somewhat interested in this in case I decide that I want to play those games on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I'd say it's elusive because it's simply less time consuming to get a model Genesis that's already compatible. ?♂️ But yeah, it's neat that you can mod a Model 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 I like the model 3 a lot. It is a sturdy device...not much to break. And even if I tried I don't think I could I just wanted a really tiny Sega Master System with composite and RGB (yes, Genesis 3 supports RGB) and this will be awesome if I could re-enable SMS support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) Interesting, how many references can be found saying "I did it" without citing the actual source where they learned what to do. Must be totally, intuitively obvious... This page referenced below has one clue that might yield useful search terms, or might just be the answer. I don't know enough about the Genesis 3 (other than having one somewhere that hasn't seen daylight for at least 5 years) to understand exactly what the context is and what's being said. I think this page is actually saying that these pins are missing from one model's ASIC chip making it impossible for that model. It may be bad information, but it's information. http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?10687-genesis-3-incompatible-fix Quote the genesis 3 va1 model here is the missing asic pins to the cart pins and there ops ___________________________________________________________________ | B1 |Audio circuit | 32X audio left |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B3 | Audio circuit | 32X audio right |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B12 | ASIC pin 24 | YS (32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B13 | ASIC pin 25 | Vertical sync (32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B14 | ASIC pin 26 | Horizontal sync (32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B15 | ASIC pin 152 | EDCLK (32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B19 | ASIC pin 151 | CLK (Game Genie/Virtua Racing/32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B21 | ASIC pin 158 | CAS (32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B26 | Connected | !CE_H (Virtua Racing/32X) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B30 | ASIC pin 43 | !S_RES (MD/G<->SMS mode) |------|--------------------|---------------|-------------------------------- | B32 | ASIC pin 42 | !CART_IN (Sega CD connector) Edited September 18, 2020 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 Yup, I found it as well previously. I was planning on updating here. The patch is easy, but unfortunately I had a VA2 motherboard...ARGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) So you would need a VA1? I somehow thought the ambiguously worded text was excluding a VA1 from the mod. I'm pretty sure I know where mine is. Maybe it's a VA1. Edit: Mine's model MK-1461, which is apparently a VA2. Back into the closet it goes. Edited September 19, 2020 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, BigO said: So you would need a VA1? I somehow thought the ambiguously worded text was excluding a VA1 from the mod. I'm pretty sure I know where mine is. Maybe it's a VA1. Edit: Mine's model MK-1461, which is apparently a VA2. Back into the closet it goes. Yeah, VA1 only. And there's no easy way to tell other than to open the console. Someone said open the cart flaps and you can tell. That is BS. The shielding covers any visible sign of any trace. You just have to get one and be lucky. I gave up and just scored a model 2....where everything works and no mods are needed at all. And, it is not all that much larger. The situation I had was space. I wanted a Genesis and an SMS to fit in a small spot. The Genesis 3 would have been perfect but it turns out the model 2 fits in the same spot I was planning on placing it. Still, one day (whenever I actually find a VA1) I am going to try this. I am not going to actively hunt down a VA1 unit, but if I find one in the wild I will certainly revisit this. And by the way, they are all MK-1461. You have to open it to find out if it is a VA1 or VA2 unit. There are tell tale signs, but most evidently it will say VA1 or VA2 in the upper right hand corner of the PCB Edited September 20, 2020 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, eightbit said: Yeah, VA1 only. And there's no easy way to tell other than to open the console. Someone said open the cart flaps and you can tell. That is BS. The shielding covers any visible sign of any trace. You just have to get one and be lucky. I gave up and just scored a model 2....where everything works and no mods are needed at all. And, it is not all that much larger. The situation I had was space. I wanted a Genesis and an SMS to fit in a small spot. The Genesis 3 would have been perfect but it turns out the model 2 fits in the same spot I was planning on placing it. Still, one day (whenever I actually find a VA1) I am going to try this. I am not going to actively hunt down a VA1 unit, but if I find one in the wild I will certainly revisit this. And by the way, they are all MK-1461. You have to open it to find out if it is a VA1 or VA2 unit. There are tell tale signs, but most evidently it will say VA1 or VA2 in the upper right hand corner of the PCB Nope, no such marking on mine. I took it apart and looked for a number like that before I made my previous post. There's an A32 up near the right corner, indicating the pin number of the cartridge slot. The upper left says A1. Near-ish to the A1 was what might be a date code: 98.22. What are the other tell tale signs? Lack of any upper right hand corner VAx marking makes this the exceedingly rare and extraordinarily valuable version, no doubt. Early retirement, here I come! The only other marking that seemed possibly relevant was 171-7545C near the lower left corner (B1) of the cart slot. There was a marking that said CSPD CAD-TEAM. The ASIC(assumed) is square to the board as opposed to the 45 degree rotated one shown in this linked picture, which also has VA2 printed on it. So, maybe it is a VA1. Linked from online source. This is not my board. Edited September 21, 2020 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Just for the sake of curiosity, I took it apart again and snapped a couple of pictures this time. Date Code? Lighting 1 Lighting B Edited September 21, 2020 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 That is a VA1 you have. You can immediately tell by the orientation of the ASIC. The VA2 is placed in a diamond position as shown in the pictures before yours...and it says VA2 on the right of the cart port. I guess the VA1 does not print "VA1" anywhere....but make no mistake yours is indeed a VA1 and ready to be modified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I assume that using SMS functionality would require a Genesis flash cart, which I don't have. I sold my SMS a couple of years ago. I can't really tell how active the mod scene is but maybe it's time to consider letting this unit go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BigO said: I assume that using SMS functionality would require a Genesis flash cart, which I don't have. I sold my SMS a couple of years ago. I can't really tell how active the mod scene is but maybe it's time to consider letting this unit go. A flash cart (to play roms), or a power base mini (to play real carts). As for mod scene, I doubt there are many people trying to mod a model 3 for master system support Maybe me and two other guys on the net...lol. Edited September 21, 2020 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 23 hours ago, eightbit said: I gave up and just scored a model 2....where everything works and no mods are needed at all. Well, that's not entirely true...I'm not sure how the model 2 compares to the 3, but compared to the model 1, most revisions have inferior audio and video Also, IIRC, model 2s are way more difficult to overclock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Asaki said: Well, that's not entirely true...I'm not sure how the model 2 compares to the 3, but compared to the model 1, most revisions have inferior audio and video Also, IIRC, model 2s are way more difficult to overclock. I have never had the need to overclock a Genesis. Got to play it as it was meant to be I have a VA4 model Genesis 2 (actually the Majesco release) which has the best composite audio and video of any Genesis model I have used. The audio is awesome as well. And, the Genesis 2 does support stereo sound unlike the model 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Overclocking is awesome in the games that support it, you get a much smoother framerate. I have trouble going back to stock for the Road Rash games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, eightbit said: A flash cart (to play roms), or a power base mini (to play real carts). As for mod scene, I doubt there are many people trying to mod a model 3 for master system support Maybe me and two other guys on the net...lol. That's about 1.9 more people than are interested in my house. ? Looks like it could be worth somewhere in the vicinity of lunch +/- tip. I don't need 3 or 4 different Genesis consoles since I don't play any of them. Edited September 21, 2020 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, BigO said: That's about 1.9 more people than are interested in my house. ? Looks like it could be worth approximately enough to buy lunch. If you want to simply get rid of it for not too much coin (I am thinking $20...that is what I spent on the last one I purchased) I will take it off of your hands. And simply because I want to try the mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 $20 +shipping is what I was thinking. I need to put it back together and test it. It's going to be a busy one but I'll try to PM you this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 1:17 AM, BigO said: $20 +shipping is what I was thinking. I need to put it back together and test it. It's going to be a busy one but I'll try to PM you this week. Thanks. It arrived today. Success! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, eightbit said: Thanks. It arrived today. Success! Impressive, that's great. You'd think they would have enabled the SMS capability from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, OldSchoolRetroGamer said: Impressive, that's great. You'd think they would have enabled the SMS capability from the start. I can see why they didn't. At the time the only adapter we had was the power base converter....which I do not think would even fit on this. I don't have one to try but I suspect it will not. And, if it did, it would look WEIRD. You wouldn't even see the Genesis 3 at all...the PBC would be covering the whole thing! Not to mention the fact that the SMS and its games were long off of store shelves when this was available. So, why bother adding it as (at the time) it would not work anyway. They used an ASIC with the support in there, but that is only because it was the same ASIC (I believe) as the Genesis 2...so they just sourced chips with that support in there anyway. They never expected people many years later would use everdrives in order to get SMS game code into these things I am sure I just did this to have a tiny Sega Master System with real SMS hardware. I could now stick this in any tight spot and play Wonderboy Big thanks to BigO for hooking me up! Edited October 1, 2020 by eightbit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, eightbit said: I can see why they didn't. At the time the only adapter we had was the power base converter....which I do not think would even fit on this. I don't have one to try but I suspect it will not. And, if it did, it would look WEIRD. You wouldn't even see the Genesis 3 at all...the PBC would be covering the whole thing! Not to mention the fact that the SMS and its games were long off of store shelves when this was available. So, why bother adding it as (at the time) it would not work anyway. They used an ASIC with the support in there, but that is only because it was the same ASIC (I believe) as the Genesis 2...so they just sourced chips with that support in there anyway. They never expected people many years later would use everdrives in order to get SMS game code into these things I am sure Ah OK fair enough I suppose. Honestly I was sort of unclear whether it was something purposely disabled rather than simply not being enabled, I thought it might have been something where due to the Genesis compatible hardware that it was more cost effective to disable the SMS compatibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Just now, OldSchoolRetroGamer said: Ah OK fair enough I suppose. Honestly I was sort of unclear whether it was something purposely disabled rather than simply not being enabled, I thought it might have been something where due to the Genesis compatible hardware that it was more cost effective to disable the SMS compatibility. I can bet when they were developing the PCB they weren't even thinking about the SMS compatibility aspect at all. I don't think they said "we aren't adding that" at all. I think they were just focused on getting Genesis games working. I could be wrong as I was not there with them of course, but I can see SMS being completely overlooked. That reminds me that I didn't try SG-1000 games. I will have to give that a try at another time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) And when the VA2 board was released they used an ASIC by Sega with the SMS support completely removed as far as I am aware. So I am guessing the engineers that designed that chip to be more cost effective probably saw it in there and said "what the heck is this doing here? Remove it"....hah There are probably tons of the VA1 board models out there but the thing that sucks is that there is no way of knowing until you open it. Not many ebay sellers would be willing to do that for you. So you just have to keep buying them and taking chances. What RetroRGB says here is not entirely true: https://www.retrorgb.com/genesis3.html You cannot see the board traces by the cart slots by opening the cart doors and matching board traces because there is an RF shield that covers all of it on these. Unless someone removed that previously those traces cannot be seen. And apparently the PCB does fit....but man does it look odd: Edited October 1, 2020 by eightbit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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