I've been working on my 600XL Winter Restoration Project

[bfollowell]

I bought a couple of problem children off of ebay. Both were really nasty looking XL line 8-bits. The first was a working but completely filthy 800XL. I was lucky enough to find that it has a completely 100% socketed motherboard. It will be instrumental in helping my troubleshoot my dead original 800XL from my college years.

 

The one I'm posting about now is the other winter project; an equally filthy, non-working 600XL.

 

I knew when I purchased it that it was missing the ANTIC chip, but the keyboard was dead as well. Through a lot of trial and error I found that I actually had two apparently unrelated keyboard issues. When using the original keyboard, nothing works except for the console keys. I swapped out and tried the keyboard from my original 800XL and it partially worked. Looking at the keys that didn't work, I was able to trace the issue back to a bad 4051 chip in position U23. I had a couple of spares, so that took care of the keyboard issue on the motherboard side. The original keyboard is still mostly dead, but I will tackle that last.

 

In the meantime, I bought some upgrade and repair supplies from Marlin at The Brewing Academy. I can't praise him enough. Marlin is definitely a class act and runs a great business. So, he sent me an ANTIC chip, one of Lotharek's 64K SRAM upgrades, a monitor port, and a UAV upgrade. I installed the ANTIC chip and the 64K upgrade without a hitch. I removed the channel selector switch and installed the monitor port easily enough, then soldered a socket on top of the 4050 chip, rather than removing it and installed the UAV. I soldered a few more wires and now I have beautiful, crystal clear composite from the monitor port and, since I didn't remove the 4050, I still have RF out to channel 3, though I have no idea why I'd really ever want to use it.

 

So, now I have a working 64K upgraded 600XL with UAV and RF out. Now I just need to tackle the mostly non-working original keyboard, clean the case and modify the channel selector hole for the new monitor port, and decide if I want to try to retrobright the yellowed case and keys.

 

Below are some pictures of how it looked on ebay. I'll post some more pictures as I work on restoring the case.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by bfollowell

[archeocomp]

600XL is always a joy, so small. It looks like you have membrane type keyboard. With a new membrane and a good clean it will be back to top state.

[bfollowell]

Just now, archeocomp said:

600XL is always a joy, so small. It looks like you have membrane type keyboard. With a new membrane and a good clean it will be back to top state.

 

Yes, definitely a membrane type. I was hoping to get by with cleaning the existing membrane to maybe revive it, but I'm figuring I'll probably need to replace it.

 

I'd thought about re-homing this one once I'm done, but I have $160 into now, probably closer to $190 if I have to replace the keyboard mylar. I'm not looking to make money on it, but I'm not running a charity either, and $190 + shipping is probably a little rich for a 600XL, so I may wind up keeping this one. It will be fully restored though, and has been upgraded to 64K and had a UAV and monitor port installed. I guess someone without the skills to do that themselves, may be interested. I'll just have to wait and see.

 

In the meantime, I'll start shopping for keyboard membranes.

 

[Gunstar]

If a retro-brite doesn't work for you, I can recommend a paint for the XL "white" that comes so close to the original "brand new" XL "white" that one is hard pressed to see a difference at all. I first got it because after I installed a PBI port in my 1200XL, I had to hide the body work. I've since used it in the restoration of an 800XL and another 1200XL and to match some poor physical condition third-party peripherals and Atari/third-party controllers to my XL system and as well as my own custom cases, and finally, an entire desk installation I did in a room matching the dark brown/white/silver styling of the XL line. In fact, I can also show the paint I use to match the XL brown, though it's not something I've had to use on original XL brown plastic, only on other non-Atari XL-painted stuff.

 

Rust-Oleum Painter's touch: Dark Walnut and Heirloom White in Satin, then I use a matte clear coat (same brand and type) and the same sheen of the original plastic and texturing is retained.

 

 

 

 

[bfollowell]

I really don't think I want to try painting, but I want yellowed plastic even less. I'll definitely keep it in mind if cleaning and retrobrighting don't give me the results I'm hoping for. Thank you for the suggestion and for showing me exactly which ones you used. It's a pretty rare week that I'm not at Home Depot or Lowe's for something, so picking these up wouldn't be a problem.

 

On a positive note, I took the mylar out of the keyboard and checked it over really well. It didn't look too bad, so I connected just the mylar and tried pressing some contacts together, but I got no response. I sprayed it down lightly with IA and wiped it down as lightly as I could, just trying to clean it off and remove any oxidation that had built up. I connected just the mylar and tried again and I was able to get some characters on the screen, so it may be OK.

 

I'm going to try to look up a keyboard restoration video I watched recently and figure out how to completely disassemble the keyboard, plungers and everything, so that I can give it all a thorough cleaning, then I'll reassemble it and give it a complete test.

 

Wish me luck!

 

EDIT:

 

OK, I mentioned wanting to disassemble the keyboard completely for cleaning and looking for an old video. Well, the videos I saw were all related to the mechanical versions, which this obviously isn't. I'm not sure that this keyboard disassembles any further than this and I figured it would be easier to ask rather than take a chance on breaking something.

 

I already have all of the springs out and in a safe place. Do the white plungers come out? I don't want to pull too hard and break something. This isn't a mechanical keyboard, so there's no real switches or anything in this one. I'm thinking of running it through the dishwasher with the rest of the case and the keys, but I want to disassemble it further if I can, to insure a thorough cleaning. Will this keyboard break down any further? Are any of you aware of any decent videos showing the complete breakdown of a Type-4 mylar style keyboard?

 

 

 

 

Finally, the two 800XLs that I have each have screws on the inside of the top cover that, when removed, allow me to separate the brown section from the cream section. This 600XL has no screws like this. As a matter of fact, if you zoom in and look at the bottom of this picture, it looks like tabs for the brown section were heated and mashed flat so that they can't come out. Unless I'm completely missing something, it looks like I'm not going to be able to separate these two portions of the top shell. Is this typical of a 600XL?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by bfollowell
adding info

[manterola]

Chelco built 600XLs are like that. I bet that it has a black label. 

Still you can do retro brighting with the dark part attached. 

 

[bfollowell]

5 hours ago, manterola said:

Chelco built 600XLs are like that. I bet that it has a black label. 

Still you can do retro brighting with the dark part attached. 

 

 

Yes, it is a Chelco machine, and it has a black label on the bottom. I've heard of Chelcos, and I know there's a story there, but I don't recall the details. It seems like I ran across a Chelco related thread or two here on AA. I'll have to look them up since it looks like I'll probably wind up keeping this machine. I have too much invested in it now, and I don't think I'd be able to get my money back out of it.

 

After almost 30 years in the automotive manufacturing industry, it really strikes me as odd, the way Atari ran their manufacturing. It just seems very strange to have so many different variations and ways of doing things; so many different vendors and suppliers for the same items. I guess it definitely keeps things interesting for us now though!

 

So, anyone have any ideas on the keyboard. Will it break down any further than what I have it now, or am I good to give it a good washing the way it is, now that the keys and springs have been removed?

 

Thanks!

 

[Gunstar]

IIRC, it was a year or two ago and the Chelco family was in litigation and needed proof that they made computers for Atari. So many people making things is what happens when you are in price wars with competitors and are constantly looking for the lowest cost of manufacturing. They saved a few pennies on every computer when they started melting tabs instead of using screws, in both the case production (less plastic, simpler mold design) and not needing to use the screws too.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Gunstar

[+kheller2]

With regards to the keyboard, yes you can take the white plungers out but I would not recommend it. Each has two clips on the bottom side that catch to keep the plunger in. They can break since they are old.  Also, the hole they go into can crack at the corners which can lead to some keys not properly moving and getting stuck as they rub.   
 

I would say wash it with a toothbrush and let it dry.  Shake the keyboard to make sure all the crevices are dry. 

[bfollowell]

25 minutes ago, kheller2 said:

With regards to the keyboard, yes you can take the white plungers out but I would not recommend it. Each has two clips on the bottom side that catch to keep the plunger in. They can break since they are old.  Also, the hole they go into can crack at the corners which can lead to some keys not properly moving and getting stuck as they rub.   
 

I would say wash it with a toothbrush and let it dry.  Shake the keyboard to make sure all the crevices are dry. 

 

Perfect. That's exactly what I wanted to know. I'll leave it assembled and wash it down really well and let it dry for a few days. I'm sure it'll be as good as new and will look great. I'm hoping for the best after giving the mylar a good cleaning.

 

[ivop]

17 hours ago, bfollowell said:

I'm thinking of running it through the dishwasher with the rest of the case and the keys

I have put a case of an 800XL and a 1050 in the dishwasher with acceptable results, but with the lettering removed and glued back later. Never done any keys. Hopefully the lettering will survive the detergent. Perhaps try a single (spare?) key first to see how it goes.

[bfollowell]

2 minutes ago, ivop said:

I have put a case of an 800XL and a 1050 in the dishwasher with acceptable results, but with the lettering removed and glued back later. Never done any keys. Hopefully the lettering will survive the detergent. Perhaps try a single (spare?) key first to see how it goes.

 

I've washed keys in the dishwasher before and not had any trouble whatsoever. If the character are labels, they have some darned good glue on them!

 

I remove the case badges and cover the bottom label to protect it. All the keys and PBI cover and anything else small goes into a laundry bag and everything goes into the dishwasher, top shelf only, heat-dry turned off. Everything comes out about as clean as it's probably going to get short of heated pressure washing, and that's not happening. I've just never actually put a keyboard assembly into the dishwasher before; keys only. I'll give it a try when I put this machine's case in for a deep cleaning.

 

Thanks.

 

[ivop]

2 hours ago, bfollowell said:

I've washed keys in the dishwasher before and not had any trouble whatsoever. If the character are labels, they have some darned good glue on them!

I didn't think they were labels, but I thought they were painted. Or was it a different process to get the lettering on the keycaps? But it's good to hear they survived!

 

Once I cleaned my microwave front panel with a "soap" that removed the digits and icons within a single wipe

Edited January 3, 2021 by ivop

[bfollowell]

OK, now for the funny part where I tell about doing something silly. So, between my original 800XL from college that's dead at the moment, the nasty 800XL I bought as a winter restoration project and to help me troubleshoot my original 800XL, and the nasty 600XL I also bought as a winter restoration project, I have too many machines and parts lying around. So, when I said I'd cleaned the mylar last night and got the keyboard going again, I'd actually disassembled the working keyboard from the nasty 800XL and cleaned it. While I'm certain it needed a good cleaning as well, it didn't help me at all with the bad 600XL keyboard. So, after work and dinner tonight, I separated everything and got everything organized by the correct machine. I put the 600XL case, as well as both nasty XL disassembled keyboards and keys in the dishwasher and cleaned them up. While the dishwasher was running, I went over the 600XL keyboard mylar, the correct one this time, and cleaned it really well with some IA. After everything was cleaned and dried, I reassembled the 600XL keyboard and I'm happy to say that it now works as well. Yay!

 

Now they're both clean, if heavily discolored, so I can't call them the nasty XL twins any longer.

 

The 600XL is upgraded to 64K and has a UAV and a monitor port. It's working perfectly and now I just need to wait for a free sunny day to try to retrobrighting the case and the keys. It's cold enough now here in southern Indiana that I may wind up waiting for spring, but we'll see. Oh, I need to drill out a proper monitor port hole on the back of the 600XL case too.

 

If it looks like the weather won't cooperate in the next week or two, I'll probably organize everything really well and store it away and use the new 800XL to help me start troubleshooting my old one while I wait for better weather.

 

 

[manterola]

Those are great news. I was about to say that cleaning might solve all your problems.. but not only the mylar, also cleaning the keyboard edge connector and the mylar edge itself (or even cut with scissors half or a quarter inch of the mylar edge). 

Regarding the monitor port hole I got a set of spade bits and I ended up using the 5/8" one if I remember correctly (it was a bit tight). Then I practiced in randon pieces of plastic to know how fast or slow I wanted to go to get better results. At the end it was pretty easy to do, just went fast and I got I pretty decently aligned monitor port hole. The main issue regarding precision is that the center of the hole falls into the rectangular hole of the TV-CH switch so you don't have a solid point of reference for the center of the circle. However, that is not such a big problem.

Good luck.

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by manterola

[bfollowell]

1 hour ago, manterola said:

Those are great news. I was about to say that cleaning might solve all your problems.. but not only the mylar, also cleaning the keyboard edge connector and the mylar edge itself (or even cut with scissors half or a quarter inch of the mylar edge). 

Regarding the monitor port hole I got a set of spade bits and I ended up using the 5/8" one if I remember correctly (it was a bit tight). Then I practiced in randon pieces of plastic to know how fast or slow I wanted to go to get better results. At the end it was pretty easy to do, just went fast and I got I pretty decently aligned monitor port hole. The main issue regarding precision is that the center of the hole falls into the rectangular hole of the TV-CH switch so you don't have a solid point of reference for the center of the circle. However, that is not such a big problem.

Good luck.

 

 

17.5mm looks perfect. I'm going to take the top case in to work and put it on the drill press, get it perfectly aligned, and slowly drill through.

 

[hueyjones70]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:30 PM, bfollowell said:

I really don't think I want to try painting, but I want yellowed plastic even less. I'll definitely keep it in mind if cleaning and retrobrighting don't give me the results I'm hoping for. Thank you for the suggestion and for showing me exactly which ones you used. It's a pretty rare week that I'm not at Home Depot or Lowe's for something, so picking these up wouldn't be a problem.

 

On a positive note, I took the mylar out of the keyboard and checked it over really well. It didn't look too bad, so I connected just the mylar and tried pressing some contacts together, but I got no response. I sprayed it down lightly with IA and wiped it down as lightly as I could, just trying to clean it off and remove any oxidation that had built up. I connected just the mylar and tried again and I was able to get some characters on the screen, so it may be OK.

 

I'm going to try to look up a keyboard restoration video I watched recently and figure out how to completely disassemble the keyboard, plungers and everything, so that I can give it all a thorough cleaning, then I'll reassemble it and give it a complete test.

 

Wish me luck!

 

EDIT:

 

OK, I mentioned wanting to disassemble the keyboard completely for cleaning and looking for an old video. Well, the videos I saw were all related to the mechanical versions, which this obviously isn't. I'm not sure that this keyboard disassembles any further than this and I figured it would be easier to ask rather than take a chance on breaking something.

 

I already have all of the springs out and in a safe place. Do the white plungers come out? I don't want to pull too hard and break something. This isn't a mechanical keyboard, so there's no real switches or anything in this one. I'm thinking of running it through the dishwasher with the rest of the case and the keys, but I want to disassemble it further if I can, to insure a thorough cleaning. Will this keyboard break down any further? Are any of you aware of any decent videos showing the complete breakdown of a Type-4 mylar style keyboard?

 

 

 

 

Finally, the two 800XLs that I have each have screws on the inside of the top cover that, when removed, allow me to separate the brown section from the cream section. This 600XL has no screws like this. As a matter of fact, if you zoom in and look at the bottom of this picture, it looks like tabs for the brown section were heated and mashed flat so that they can't come out. Unless I'm completely missing something, it looks like I'm not going to be able to separate these two portions of the top shell. Is this typical of a 600XL?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

it is fairly easy to cut the mashed part off and remove the brown part. Afterwards you can get some scrap plastic and use a soldering iron to secure the brown casing.