larrylaffer Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 (edited) Hello. I came across a jaguar cart with no labels and it appears to be "Tiny Toons". I did a bit of a search on the internet, but the real experts are here. Any pointers to what this game is? It didn't feel fully baked for sure: no sound and when I pressed Option on my controller my character stopped animating but I could get them through walls. Possibly a dump download from atarimania and burnt into these eproms? Thanks! Edited March 7, 2021 by larrylaffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 38 minutes ago, larrylaffer said: Hello. I came across a jaguar cart with no labels and it appears to be "Tiny Toons". I did a bit of a search on the internet, but the real experts are here. Any pointers to what this game is? It didn't feel fully baked for sure: no sound and when I pressed Option on my controller my character stopped animating but I could get them through walls. Possibly a dump download from atarimania and burnt into these eproms? Thanks! Ah, one of the games that were on the box, but never released, along with Battlewheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 2 hours ago, larrylaffer said: Hello. I came across a jaguar cart with no labels and it appears to be "Tiny Toons". I did a bit of a search on the internet, but the real experts are here. Any pointers to what this game is? It didn't feel fully baked for sure: no sound and when I pressed Option on my controller my character stopped animating but I could get them through walls. Possibly a dump download from atarimania and burnt into these eproms? Thanks! Yeah, it looks like a bootleg copy of the prototype game. I don't think any real prototypes had electrical tape covering the EPROMs. Mitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Thank you both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Looks like a fun game. Does anyone know where to find the ROM for this prototype, I want to try it out? It must be available somewhere, if some person was able to burn it on EPROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) You can find it on atarimania. Edited March 18, 2021 by larrylaffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 3 hours ago, phoboz said: Looks like a fun game. Does anyone know where to find the ROM for this prototype, I want to try it out? It must be available somewhere, if some person was able to burn it on EPROM. It is not fun unfortunatley, more like an interesting curiosity since it has been on the back of the Jaguar Box and having a very troubled development and two completley different tiny toon protos out there. I like the "your logo goes here" though :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 19 hours ago, larrylaffer said: You can find it on atarimania. The one I find on atarimaia is the other Tiny Toons prototype, where you only can walk forward, trough everything. This one looks like you can jump, and do a lot more stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share Posted March 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, phoboz said: The one I find on atarimaia is the other Tiny Toons prototype, where you only can walk forward, trough everything. This one looks like you can jump, and do a lot more stuff. Yes, mine works fine as a game (at least for the 10mins I played it). There were bugs too. However what you describe happens only when I press "Option" button. Then my character walks through walls and the game will crash at some point. Are you running the ROM on a real jaguar or on an emulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, larrylaffer said: Yes, mine works fine as a game (at least for the 10mins I played it). There were bugs too. However what you describe happens only when I press "Option" button. Then my character walks through walls and the game will crash at some point. Are you running the ROM on a real jaguar or on an emulator? No what I mean is that the only one I find on atarimania is Tiny Toon Adventures - Plucky Duck in Hollywood Hijinks [Prototype] This one does not even look like the one on the pictures here. This is a completely different game, where you can only walk forward, and backward, nothing more. - Does anyone know where to find the ROM for the Tiny toons prototype in the pictures above? (not the one in the picture below) Edited March 19, 2021 by phoboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share Posted March 19, 2021 I see... interesting... I found the atarimania page above, saw the title and the logo (the colorful target with the two bunnies and tough this the ROM I have in this cart... but apparently that is not the case... Unfortunately the ROMs on my cartridge are soldered, otherwise I would offer to make a dump... is there any device that can read the jaguar cart and dump it directly? Now am again curious about this cart... if anybody recognizes the game from my pictures please let us know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, larrylaffer said: I see... interesting... I found the atarimania page above, saw the title and the logo (the colorful target with the two bunnies and tough this the ROM I have in this cart... but apparently that is not the case... Unfortunately the ROMs on my cartridge are soldered, otherwise I would offer to make a dump... is there any device that can read the jaguar cart and dump it directly? Now am again curious about this cart... if anybody recognizes the game from my pictures please let us know... This seems to be an unique prototype that you have got your hands on, congratulations. I don't know about non destructive cartridge dumping devices. I have managed to de-solder intact Jaguar ROMs using a professional desoldering station (which uses a vacuum pump to suck up excess solder). However, there is no guarantee with such operation... Anyway, I am glad that you able to enjoy something unique... Please let us know if you find a way to dump the ROM in the future? Edited March 19, 2021 by phoboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 I do have a desoldering tool but it is not the best, and I really want to protect this cart and chips from damaging them since the count of pins is pretty high... I won't crack the champagne just yet. As @Mitch mentioned above this tape doesn't give much confidence this is a prototype, but who knows... maybe someone will get on this thread and shed some more light in the puzzle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) For a developer to use EPROMs for a prototype is a very cost efficient solution. (I have done it for all my games before release) To make a mask ROM (that the original Atari cartridges have) is accosiated with a very high one time cost. But once you make 1000s of them, you benefit. So I would see it as a very likely scenario that the developers made a prototype cartridge using EPROMs, rather than spending a lot of money on making just a few mask ROMs. I doubt that a fab. would even take on such a task? Edited March 20, 2021 by phoboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Sure, but why solder it? Because they have the means to write it on the cartridge? Wouldn't be much easier to just use sockets and just remove, erase, write, sit, test (in a loop) the eprom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 This is what it normally looks like. Jag protos on EPROMs are fairly uncommon. They usually tested on a flash cart or dev board. If you want the ROM dumped, I can do that for you. Let me know if you are interested. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Possible options here on cartridge reading that would not need desoldering found here... Read all that, and found the cartridge dumping utility is here: http://www.jagware.org/index.php?/topic/792-cartridge-dumping-tool/ "Here's a cartridge dumping tool I wrote. It can be used to backup your Jaguar games for various uses : playing in emulators, preserving betas versions and prototypes, etc. It's pretty slow, but very reliable, as there are multiple checks done to be sure that the data isn't corrupted. As well as standard cartridges, Atari Flash carts are supported too. Requirements : - a PC running Windows (95, 98, 2000, XP or Vista : it doesn't matter. Windows 7 not tested, but it probably works too.) - a BJL cable connected to a standard (not USB or PCI/PC Card/ExpressCard) parallel port - a way to upload a Jaguar program with a game cartridge inserted (currently, the only option is a BJL-modded Jaguar)" Big trick here is finding someone near you with a BJL modified Jaguar. With this program you could read the cartridge on a BJL modded Jaguar to a Windows PC and save the rom image that way. Hope it works, I know we'd all like to try this version of Tiny Toons out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, larrylaffer said: Sure, but why solder it? Because they have the means to write it on the cartridge? Wouldn't be much easier to just use sockets and just remove, erase, write, sit, test (in a loop) the eprom? Because if you socket the EPROM you won't be able to close the cartridge shell. The EPROM with sockets are usually to high, at least that is my experience with cartridges for several consoles. (but I haven't tried it for the Jaguar, as the DIP-42 socket is quite hard to find these days, DIP-48 is much more common, but it's to big) Yes, of course you had the Alpine (SRAM) development board for testing, and today there is the Skunk board (Flash ROM). However, if you want to make a prototype to bring to another place for demonstration (for example to a fair), it is more handy to bring it as a loose cartridge than to bring the complete development rig. Edited March 20, 2021 by phoboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 On 3/19/2021 at 7:11 PM, larrylaffer said: Sure, but why solder it? Because they have the means to write it on the cartridge? Wouldn't be much easier to just use sockets and just remove, erase, write, sit, test (in a loop) the eprom? Hey Larrylaffer, where on the West Coast do you live? We could ask around and see if anyone has a BJL modded Jaguar in your area to help you port the rom image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cubanismo Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 1 hour ago, doctorclu said: We could ask around and see if anyone has a BJL modded Jaguar in your area to help you port the rom image. FYI, I live in San Diego and have all the equipment. Happy to help if needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoboz Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) I learned that the ROM for a game (prototype) like this seems to be available. Please check this video out: Edited March 21, 2021 by phoboz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Here you also have some very interesting behind the scenes infos on the development gone wrong on this title... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 Sorry people, had a busy weekend... Thanks for all the posts, extremely interesting!!! The gameplay on the video that @phoboz shared looks very similar to mine but I would like to check my cart out again and verify that it is the same. Interestingly I think at some point I pressed "Option" and started going through the walls, and at some point I ended up at the end of level 1. And then the rocket took off bit this time for level 2, in contrary to the video above where the game ends at the end of level 1... Or maybe that "entrance to level 2" was hidden and I discovered it while the youtuber didn't? Unfortunately I am away from my Jaguar this week so I cannot confirm or not all the above. I will when I get back though. I think comparing the content of my ROMs and the one that the video uses will be interesting exercise because this will be the definitive way to say if it is the same or now. @phoboz do you have a link to that ROM shown on the video? I live near Portland, OR. If there is someone local I will be more than happy to meet them and make a dump. Unfortunately San Diego is a bit too far ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I hope it is different and one that is more advanced that the rom image found on the development Atari TT030s. I'll look/ask around and see if we have any BJL Jag users out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrylaffer Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, doctorclu said: I hope it is different and one that is more advanced that the rom image found on the development Atari TT030s. I'll look/ask around and see if we have any BJL Jag users out there. I hope so too, but what does the Atari TT030 have to do with anything? I saw some references in @PeterG's post above but didn't make much sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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