Smooth 3D Movement like "Wayout"?

[Heaven/TQA]

Just for the records… Paul’s VIC20 version does all in real-time like the A8 and not “faking” anything. It’s not much “precalculated”. Or do we now call a sin table “faking”  .

 

i have the source, too.

 

what ivop just wanted to say is that it’s a “fake raycaster” as it does not shoot rays anymore as it’s all baked into tables. The PC tool did the “raycasting”.

[ivop]

4 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Or do we now call a sin table “faking”

This. Every table that eliminates a costly calculation is good

[Heaven/TQA]

9 minutes ago, ivop said:

This. Every table that eliminates a costly calculation is good

sure. I was just wondering that in general 64kb is not enough to precalc a wolfenstein like raycaster data.... with all the rotation and subgrid movement.

[emkay]

35 minutes ago, ivop said:

 

 

You have a link to that?

 

 

You see the windows moving interleaved. It suggests an fps of 8 but in real it is 4 fps. On the Atari BOTH windows get updated at 8 fps

 

[emkay]

40 minutes ago, Heaven/TQA said:

Just for the records… Paul’s VIC20 version does all in real-time like the A8 and not “faking” anything. It’s not much “precalculated”. Or do we now call a sin table “faking”  .

 

i have the source, too.

 

what ivop just wanted to say is that it’s a “fake raycaster” as it does not shoot rays anymore as it’s all baked into tables. The PC tool did the “raycasting”.

The point is:

They do the same, but the Atari is double as fast. 

[Heaven/TQA]

found the VIC20 disassembly in MADS format... should be working to build... but not sure if I messed with it... (like disabling font to see characters on screen).

capturetheflag_vic20.zip

[sanny]

56 minutes ago, emkay said:

They do the same, but the Atari is double as fast. 

 

Not true. I think VIC20 is rather similar. The C64 is half as fast.

[emkay]

28 minutes ago, sanny said:

 

Not true. I think VIC20 is rather similar. The C64 is half as fast.

 

Did you read my post?

 

The VIC20 Version updates the windows interleaved

 

Window 1

Window 2

Window 1

Window 2

....

 

there are 8 changes together in one second

 

On the Atari 

BOTH windows get updated  at 8 fps. 

 

 

 

[emkay]

 

[popmilo]

6 hours ago, ilmenit said:

any idea what it does exactly? 2D rotation of the wall corners over the center? Does it determine somehow cone of view to determine the points to be rotated? I assume there are too many of them on the whole map, especially for 2 players simultaneously, plus looking at the map uncovering there has a distance limit.

@ilmenitIt's in that quote of his about list of line spans.
 

- You only need to sort once all walls in grid based on distance from "zero" grid cell. Finer position of player inside grid cell isn't important.

 

- Once you have that you parse all walls from closest to farthest and calculate it's two edges screen projection.

- Let's say first wall is projected from 40-70 x coordinate.

- You calculate next wall projection and it's 20-60 x coordinates. Now you know it's behind first wall (because list of walls is sorted on distance).
- So your resulting list of visible wall spans is now something like: (20-39),(40-70)
- For each edge of segment you have to take care of correct perspective height of course. Only complexity there is finding new screenY coord where two wall spans overlap, but it's again simple proportion formula.

- Once you parse all walls in your precalculated list of walls you have sorted left to right all wall spans to draw with their x,y screen coords.

- You can clip them also based on current camera angle (taking only x coords in -45,+45 degree angle cone).

- That precalculated list of walls can be limited to contain walls up to certain distance, so it can be tweaked easily to make it run fast and still look good.

 

Sorry if this sounds too complex, it's rather elegant once you draw it on paper

 

ps. I've just found old drawing I did when experimenting with gfx like this, shows walls of grid in different color and thickness based on distance from camera

Main trick here is that no matter where camera moves inside that central grid cell, order of walls doesn't change.

Edited May 24, 2021 by popmilo
Image was too large.

[Heaven/TQA]

1 hour ago, sanny said:

 

Not true. I think VIC20 is rather similar. The C64 is half as fast.

The clock speed is similar to C64. The C16/116/plus4 is more on A8 speed cpu wise.

[Alfred]

Many years ago I did something similar for a bbs door game in Rip Script. Not raycasting of course, just predrawn frames for each wall type, with predrawn lamps, doors etc. I believe we went with 5x5 so as to make it easier, two corridors on each side. Maybe something similar would work well here, like that other guys char-based mover. Players will forgive some graphics oddities if they are having a good time.

[+David_P]

4 hours ago, Alfred said:

Many years ago I did something similar for a bbs door game in Rip Script. Not raycasting of course, just predrawn frames for each wall type, with predrawn lamps, doors etc. I believe we went with 5x5 so as to make it easier, two corridors on each side. Maybe something similar would work well here, like that other guys char-based mover. Players will forgive some graphics oddities if they are having a good time.

So: Using narrow playfield and 16 character lines in ANTIC , you need 256 bytes per display.  In 16K you can store 64 different displays, and flip between them by changing a single byte in the LMS.  (Plus you'll need 1K for the custom character set).

[emkay]

I'm still missing, how the ENGINE is really done. 

There seem to be 8 (7) steps of free movement on the path. 

This needs 8(7) different offsets in the viewing angle and depth.

It also seems like that a rotation shows 32 different degrees of a circle.   

The walls also block the gameplay at this resolution. It's not just visuals.

 

 

[Heaven/TQA]

core engine is described by Paul & Popmilo.

 

and all details and magic are in the VIC20 source code and the A8 source I uploaded.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Heaven/TQA

[emkay]

I wonder, no one els posted it already.

 

 

[Preppie]

And his new one is done with character mode:

 

 

[emkay]

4 minutes ago, Preppie said:

And his new one is done with character mode:

 

 

Oh, he did it already. 

I hope, he will do a borderless version too. 

[+Stephen]

Awesome work - pretty amazing PoKey music too (he says sarcastically)