Can someone PLEASE finish these games!

[mikeyandsuzysittininatree]

Just wondering if anyone has plans to finish and release AVP or Daemonsgate or Eye of the Beholder. Also I am looking for proto copies of these if there is nothing in the works for finishing them. Lynx NEEDS a good role player. [/u]

[Willard]

get them from www.myatari.com

[lucienEn]

The problem with AvP is that the source code wasn't available (at least I didn't see it). To reverse engineer is more work. I also don't give much chance for the other game.

 

I've created a 3D engine which allows you to turn 360 fully instead of the disorienting 90 degree steps. I haven't worked on this for a while but will continue in a few weeks. Likely this will turn into a commercial game.

[+davidcalgary29]

The problem with AvP is that the source code wasn't available (at least I didn't see it). To reverse engineer is more work. I also don't give much chance for the other game.

 

I've created a 3D engine which allows you to turn 360 fully instead of the disorienting 90 degree steps. I haven't worked on this for a while but will continue in a few weeks. Likely this will turn into a commercial game.

 

I hope you're going to enter it into the "2003 Design a Lynx Game" contest; you've still got almost a month to enter!

[Harry_Dodgson]

Just wondering if anyone has plans to finish and release AVP or Daemonsgate or Eye of the Beholder.  Also I am looking for proto copies of these if there is nothing in the works for finishing them.  Lynx NEEDS a good role player. [/u]

 

There really needs to be an EotB FAQ that states:

1. It is 100% complete

2. Wizards of the Coast has been unresponsive about licensing it

3. Those of us that have it taunt those of you who don't

4. It won't run on an emulator due to the 8K of EEPROM required

 

Harry

[Atari Smeghead]

Y'know, it really bytes to know that there is an essentially completed Lynx game out there that we will probably never see, due to licensing issues!

 

It's just too bad... We deserve better.

 

Oh, and Harry, go ahead, taunt away. I...um...I have.... Yeah, I have a copy of Pit Fighter that you'll never.... ok, how about Batman Returns? Mine, all mine... Super Squeek? Bill and Ted? Aw man, this sucks!

 

Can I taunt you with my copy of Othello?

[Shawn Jefferson]

2. Wizards of the Coast has been unresponsive about licensing it

 

Whats the problem? Other people release unlicensed software/protos all the time: Sunmark, B&C, etc...

[mikeyandsuzysittininatree]

Willard, Thanks for the info. Looks like I will be doing business with them. If anybody (Harry) wants to sell a copy of eye of the beholder, please write.

[+davidcalgary29]

Just wondering if anyone has plans to finish and release AVP or Daemonsgate or Eye of the Beholder.  Also I am looking for proto copies of these if there is nothing in the works for finishing them.  Lynx NEEDS a good role player. [/u]

 

There really needs to be an EotB FAQ that states:

1. It is 100% complete

2. Wizards of the Coast has been unresponsive about licensing it

3. Those of us that have it taunt those of you who don't

4. It won't run on an emulator due to the 8K of EEPROM required

 

Harry

 

All Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro electronic material is manufactured by Atari. Unfortunately there is no way to budget production dollars for an unreleased game on a discontinued system.  While it is impossible to go into detail about everything that goes into those budgeting decisions being made, it is safe to say that the product will most like never be released. We are sure the Atari Lynx is a quality gaming system, however it has been discontinued along with all other projects related to it.  

 

   In the future all electronics licensing inquiries must go though Atari as they are the exclusive electronics D&D licensee.

 

   We thank you for taking the time to contact us with you inquiry, and we really do wish there was more do to help.

 

 

Well, at least they were responsive!

[Atari Smeghead]

While it is impossible to go into detail about everything that goes into those budgeting decisions being made, it is safe to say that the product will most like never be released.

 

Ok, fine, they're never gonna release it. I think we can all understand their point behind that logic. But do ya think they'd be interested (and reasonable) about selling the game, code and rights to someone who would?

 

Especially if it is complete. They'd get money on something rotting in a vault somewhere.

 

Maybe there's still hope?

[SwedenLynxer]

One must never give up hope. Ok if the inquiries must go through Atari then all Lynxers around the world should start sending mail to Atari and ask them to show some good will to the Atari Lynx fan-base. Must be all of us. Not just one mail from davidcalgary29 or Songbird. A flood of mail like the Sobig F virus. Then something might hapend...

[+davidcalgary29]

One must never give up hope. Ok if the inquiries must go through Atari then all Lynxers around the world should start sending mail to Atari and ask them to show some good will to the Atari Lynx fan-base. Must be all of us. Not just one mail from davidcalgary29 or Songbird. A flood of mail like the Sobig F virus. Then something might hapend...

 

I've forwarded my comments on this topic to Jon Leach at Atari, who seems to be very reasonable about the topic of Lynx licensing. In his last response to me, he indicated that Atari was certainly not averse to licensing historic games (even 'complete' ones, like EOTB), for the Lynx, but simply could agree to "pro bono" projects where there was no prospect of any economic return. I'm waiting for his reply.

[seamoon]

Great job guys! Keep on bugging them. A release of EotB would be the greatest release next to Lemmings IMHO. Wish I knew what to do to aid you.

[+davidcalgary29]

Great job guys! Keep on bugging them. A release of EotB would be the greatest release next to Lemmings IMHO. Wish I knew what to do to aid you.

 

Write to Jon Leach, I suppose:

 

 

Eye of the Beholder has been released by our company on GBA format.  We don't plan to license it for the Lynx format as there is not significant enough of a market to make it financially viable to strike a licensing arrangement.

 

 

Perhaps Mr. Leach needs to be convinced that the Lynx market IS big enough to strike a licensing agreement with Songbird?

[Atari Smeghead]

Personally, I would be happy to email Mr. Leach, if you think it's appropriate. If you don't think it'd cause any friction, please post his email addy here.

 

But I'm thinking that he might not appreciate having his addy publicized. If you feel that way as well, I'd be happy to compose an email and have you forward it. Or perhaps, once we're done with this thread, maybe you could capture it and send it on.

 

Whatever you feel is appropriate.

 

Because without a doubt, I'd pay a fair price for a new Lynx game. Like to me, Songbird's pricing is fair for a new, complete Lynx game. (Cheaper is nice, sure, but...) I just wonder what the best way to convince them would be... I mean, I'd buy EotB if it came out, just like I bought every other new Songbird game, from Ponx and Lexis to CM2:BT.

[+davidcalgary29]

I'll e-mail Jon Leach and ask him if he'd mind it if I posted his address on this site. You have to wonder, though, that even if efforts to release EOTB rights are successful, whether or not any efforts expended in this process might have been better placed promoting / buying current (e.g. Songbird) titles.

[Shawn Jefferson]

You guys and your pesky morality. You could just make a limited release of the game without obtaining permission first. Companies such as Sunmark and B&C do so, I assume, under the assumption that suing them would be a waste of time over a game released to a dead market.

[Agent X]

 

Eye of the Beholder has been released by our company on GBA format.  We don't plan to license it for the Lynx format as there is not significant enough of a market to make it financially viable to strike a licensing arrangement.

 

 

Perhaps Mr. Leach needs to be convinced that the Lynx market IS big enough to strike a licensing agreement with Songbird?

 

I haven't studied law, so I don't know if what I'm about to suggest is legally sound, but...

 

According to Wizards of the Coast, Atari (the current company, the one formerly known as Infogrames) own the electronic (read: video game and computer game) rights to all Dungeons & Dragons games. (See message by davidcalgary29 above.)

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), Atari (again the current company, the one formerly known as Infogrames) also owns the rights to the Atari console versions of games made by the "old" Atari. My interpretation is that the rights to those games were "grandfathered" over to them by virtue of them buying the Atari properties from Hasbro, who had purchased those properties from JTS, who themselves acquired them when they merged with the "old" Tramiel-operated Atari Corp.

 

If both of the above are true, then Atari would have to license nothing. They already own the rights to produce this game.

 

Now, whether they're interested in manufacturing and distributing this game is another ballgame altogether. Since the Lynx is no longer an actively produced or marketed system, they probably could turn the publishing duties over to companies like (for example) Songbird Productions or AtariAge. It could be seen as a goodwill gesture towards the Atari community. Obviously, it wouldn't be a huge source of income for them, but perhaps the publisher (whoever that turns out to be) could agree to turn over a portion of the profits to Atari if that's what it takes to get the game out there.

 

Maybe someone will see this game on the Lynx, become interested in it, and also see that there's a GBA version now. That person could then buy the GBA version later on, or perhaps recommend the game to a friend who has the GBA but not the Lynx. Or maybe the guy will just be happy that Atari made it all possible for this long-lost game to be produced, and give other Atari-brand games a much closer look the next time he goes to the store to buy something for his PC or modern game console.

 

Does anyone else here catch what I'm saying? We just have to convince Atari that this is a good idea, that they don't have to invest any of their own time or money to make it happen (homebrew publishers will do it for them), and that it puts smiles on hardcore gamers' faces, resulting in their company's name and reputation being viewed in a very positive light. It would be a true win-win situation for everyone involved.

[+davidcalgary29]

 

Eye of the Beholder has been released by our company on GBA format.  We don't plan to license it for the Lynx format as there is not significant enough of a market to make it financially viable to strike a licensing arrangement.

 

 

Perhaps Mr. Leach needs to be convinced that the Lynx market IS big enough to strike a licensing agreement with Songbird?

 

I haven't studied law, so I don't know if what I'm about to suggest is legally sound, but...

 

According to Wizards of the Coast, Atari (the current company, the one formerly known as Infogrames) own the electronic (read: video game and computer game) rights to all Dungeons & Dragons games. (See message by davidcalgary29 above.)

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), Atari (again the current company, the one formerly known as Infogrames) also owns the rights to the Atari console versions of games made by the "old" Atari. My interpretation is that the rights to those games were "grandfathered" over to them by virtue of them buying the Atari properties from Hasbro, who had purchased those properties from JTS, who themselves acquired them when they merged with the "old" Tramiel-operated Atari Corp.

 

If both of the above are true, then Atari would have to license nothing. They already own the rights to produce this game.

 

Now, whether they're interested in manufacturing and distributing this game is another ballgame altogether. Since the Lynx is no longer an actively produced or marketed system, they probably could turn the publishing duties over to companies like (for example) Songbird Productions or AtariAge. It could be seen as a goodwill gesture towards the Atari community. Obviously, it wouldn't be a huge source of income for them, but perhaps the publisher (whoever that turns out to be) could agree to turn over a portion of the profits to Atari if that's what it takes to get the game out there.

 

Maybe someone will see this game on the Lynx, become interested in it, and also see that there's a GBA version now. That person could then buy the GBA version later on, or perhaps recommend the game to a friend who has the GBA but not the Lynx. Or maybe the guy will just be happy that Atari made it all possible for this long-lost game to be produced, and give other Atari-brand games a much closer look the next time he goes to the store to buy something for his PC or modern game console.

 

Does anyone else here catch what I'm saying? We just have to convince Atari that this is a good idea, that they don't have to invest any of their own time or money to make it happen (homebrew publishers will do it for them), and that it puts smiles on hardcore gamers' faces, resulting in their company's name and reputation being viewed in a very positive light. It would be a true win-win situation for everyone involved.

 

I don't doubt that Atari owns the full rights to EOTB. They are not, however, interested in releasing this title themselves. Let's just assume for a minute that they'd be willing to strike a licensing agreement -- for free -- with a 3rd party distibutor such as Songbird (there's no reason to assume that this couldn't happen). The problem here is that that 3rd party software house would have to ante up the hundreds (or thousands) of dollars it would cost (in legal fees) merely to have the appropriate licensing agreements drafted, etc. The trick here is not only convincing Atari to commit itself to a licensing agreement, but also to get it to utilize its in-house legal department to provide some pro bono service to the Atari gaming community. That'll be a bit trickier.

[AtariDude]

Maybe we should contact the new Atari and ask them if they own the rights to releasing this game. If they do, we can ask them if they would be willing to release the rights to Songbird or Atariage so that it can finally see the light of day.

[chris_lynx1989]

telegames picked up the rights to many(all?) of the lynx and other atari

corp. stuff towards the closing of the atari doors.they have been re-releas-

ing several of the released lynx games this year.i know,they also have a few of the unreleased games "sitting" around too.perhaps a few of us sho-

uld inquire about them releasing some new games for us instead of some

warmed over re-releases of some good games.most of what i've seen is

still readily available on ebay and such to us lynxers.i would rather see a

few new unreleased games come out in some manner.why start reproduc-

ing already available games?ego trip for the telegames name being on the

lynx games they're releasing?you tell me.the last i talked to terry granham

about this subject on lynx games i got--"telegames cannot expend the fun-

ding to do games for the lynx unless a "groundswell" of support from the

lynx community is made know to us by them(the consumer)".this was for

new lynx game releases a few years ago,what about now and the current

re-releases??i've posed this question to him this year and got no response

on the subject from him.several of us should call and email and campaign

on this subject further.we need more than my inquiries and voice here for

the lynx and/or jaguar.what do you say folks??--the ulimate atari lynxer

[Clock]

OK now I'm confused.

 

Who do we need to be talking to? Is it Telegames or Atari's Jon Leach?

 

If Jon Leach came through for us and helped get EotB released then he would be a hero to the Lynx community.

[+davidcalgary29]

OK now I'm confused.

 

Who do we need to be talking to? Is it Telegames or Atari's Jon Leach?

 

If Jon Leach came through for us and helped get EotB released then he would be a hero to the Lynx community.

 

Atari retains the rights to EOTB; Jon Leach is, consequently, the man to contact regarding the licensing of this or any other historic product. (And how much do you think it would cost to license "I, Robot" for the Jaguar, kids?)

 

I really don't know whether or not we should be expending our efforts to get this title released by any "legal" means. A few people do have EOTB proto carts, and, to tell you the truth, I'm happy to let them have it.

I can't help but believe that supporting existing developers is far better for the perpetuation of the Lynx system in the long run.

[babble]

Was just day-dreaming..

 

If Atari want a positive economic return, I'm sure a small co like Songbird has much smaller operating costs and a larger Lynx following than Atari, and being one of the few outfits in the world still able to produce Lynx games, could make it profitable.

 

Surely Songbird (or similar) could licence the game from Atari, obtain the code and offer to publish the games with a $5-$10 profit share per game sold to Atari - hence no risk for Atari, and they're likely to make a small amount of money - it may only be a couple $1000, but it would be very little effort for them (signing over the licence) and beyond that no cost, and no risk.

 

Surely that would sound like an attractive proposition for Atari?

But would Songbird etc. be in a position to make that kind of offer?

[+davidcalgary29]

Was just day-dreaming..

 

If Atari want a positive economic return' date=' I'm sure a small co like Songbird has much smaller operating costs and a larger Lynx following than Atari, and being one of the few outfits in the world still able to produce Lynx games, could make it profitable.

 

Surely Songbird (or similar) could licence the game from Atari, obtain the code and offer to publish the games with a $5-$10 profit share per game sold to Atari - hence no risk for Atari, and they're likely to make a small amount of money - it may only be a couple $1000, but it would be very little effort for them (signing over the licence) and beyond that no cost, and no risk.

 

Surely that would sound like an attractive proposition for Atari?

But would Songbird etc. be in a position to make that kind of offer?

[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, I don't think that the modern Atari has any capability whatsoever for coding new games for the Lynx; I think that Infogrames just took the name...and decided to ignore all of Atari's old development kits. I am sure, however, that they would be very happy to release all rights to the Lynx version of EOTB should some daring soul come up with the $$$ it would take to do this.