Atari 810 copy mod, which is it?

[Sugarland]

I bought this Tandon 810 a couple years ago and was told it had a 'basic' copy enhancement. Any idea what this is, please?  I'm not too knowledgeable about 810's.

 

 

 

Daughter board is stock?

 

It has some wires poorly hacked into a 3way front panel switch:

 

 

The switch circuit is patched into the connector that uses only two wires. I traced these two wires around to what might be the write protect detection? Is this front panel switch is only to enable or disable write protection?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[+Nezgar]

10 hours ago, Sugarland said:

I bought this Tandon 810 a couple years ago and was told it had a 'basic' copy enhancement. Any idea what this is, please?

It's "The Chip" for use with the "Archiver" software.

The modification as pictured matches that in the installation guide here:

https://archive.org/details/rearc_the-chip-for-atari-810-ch-9-installation-198x/mode/2up

 

Users Manual:

https://archive.org/details/ArchiverEditor/

 

The software is here:

https://archive.org/details/a8b_Happy_1050_Chip_Archiver_Editor_The_v1.1_19xx_Fox

 

You'll need to dump the EPROM to determine the two-byte "open" code to enable the archiver features - until then they are disabled for normal use to avoid detection by programs. Originally, each ROM had a unique code programmed, which was also a form of protection that could allow a pirated copy to be traced back to the original purchaser. Some pirated ROM's may have replaced the open code with something simple like "0000" or "1234" so you could try those first...

 

The other wires most likely are for write protect defeat. Either always write/never write, or normal behaviour / allow write. Sometimes switches were installed to lower the RPM as well.

 

Edit: yes, checking the schematics, J101 pin 1 & 2 are normally directly connected to the write protect photodiode, pin 3 n/c, pin 4,5 power the infrared LED opposite of the photodiode.

[sup8pdct]

My educated guess,  the Rom is Archiver. It is able to copy most copy protected disks along with a program loaded from disk.

The add on board is a data separator which is std in later 810's.

Copy protect switch is a fairly common mod. it enables disks to be turned upside down with out having to notch them.

 

James

[Sugarland]

16 hours ago, Nezgar said:

It's "The Chip" for use with the "Archiver" software.

The modification as pictured matches that in the installation guide here:

https://archive.org/details/rearc_the-chip-for-atari-810-ch-9-installation-198x/mode/2up

 

Users Manual:

https://archive.org/details/ArchiverEditor/

 

The software is here:

https://archive.org/details/a8b_Happy_1050_Chip_Archiver_Editor_The_v1.1_19xx_Fox

 

You'll need to dump the EPROM to determine the two-byte "open" code to enable the archiver features - until then they are disabled for normal use to avoid detection by programs. Originally, each ROM had a unique code programmed, which was also a form of protection that could allow a pirated copy to be traced back to the original purchaser. Some pirated ROM's may have replaced the open code with something simple like "0000" or "1234" so you could try those first...

 

The other wires most likely are for write protect defeat. Either always write/never write, or normal behaviour / allow write. Sometimes switches were installed to lower the RPM as well.

 

Edit: yes, checking the schematics, J101 pin 1 & 2 are normally directly connected to the write protect photodiode, pin 3 n/c, pin 4,5 power the infrared LED opposite of the photodiode.

@Nezgar thank you for your reply! Hugely helpful. I have a few questions for you or anyone who will help, please. 

 

Never having had an 810 or 'Archiver Chip' back in the day, is The Chip the same as an Archiver?  I suppose Archiver is the program and The Chip is the upgrade..? I had always called both the hardware and software as Archiver or Archiver 810. Your reply is great news since I've always wanted one. I had two friends with Arhiver 810's and the seminal brown copy screen is the stuff of legend, if I could get it to work. See below.

 

Reading, writing and formatting on the drive seems to work normally.

 

When I try to copy or even read any disk with "*** The 1050 CHIP V1.1 ***" software, it always says [[ READ FORMAT ERROR ]] and gives an audible IO error fart (not a timeout fart). The drive motor never spins up.  I read the manual and it says to turn the drive on with the The 1050 CHIP 1.1 disk in and it will read sector $2D0 to unlock THE CHIP. Did this procedure to no change in behavior. I have no idea if the unlocking is happening. It's also confusing because when loading the software it says (after an initial IO error fart) 1050 HAPPY to 1050 to CHIP.  It's an 810, not a 1050 ?  It's not a happy enhancement either.

 

Also tried The ARCHIVER! 3.02. It also gives error [[ Error in Reading Format ]] when pressing start to copy and gives Error fart. Drive does not spin up.

 

I did try entering an OPEN CODE of 0000 and 1234 and neither worked. Error fart. However according to the manual, the OPEN CODE is not necessary if the 1050 CHIP 1.1 disk is in the drive when it's powered on..??

 

Sector Copier successfully copies a disk. MyDos 4.53/4 succeeds in disk duplication. CopyMate 4.4 fails to access the drive or even give a disk directory. It says  I/O ERROR after giving a long sequence of high speed SIO beeps but the drive is an 810 as drive 2. Using an 800 as the computer since they like each other (lol). Loaded CopyMate 4.4 from SIO2PC-USB at 19,200. I'm guessing that since CopyMate 4.4 is made with the idea of high speed SIO and other more modern features, it doesn't work on a stock 810.. No idea.

 

MyCopyR! 2.1 also fails to write using the drive. "WRITE ERROR  CHECK DESTINATION DISK THEN PRESS START"

 

Any ideas on these failures? Am happy to share video of the behavior if needed.

 

PS

I did repair the wiring to stock for write protect photodiode. Write protect works as it should now. The front toggle switch had broken off in shipping. Also working on repairing drive case since it was shattered in shipping.

 

 

[+Nezgar]

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

I suppose Archiver is the program and The Chip is the upgrade..?

I agree it's confusing.. I believe this is indeed the correct differentiation...

 

I did have some difficultly locating a particular software disk to reference in my first post. There are indeed a number of them, and the collection is muddied by the numerous titles targeted to the version that runs from code uploaded code to a Happy 1050's RAM. I do have 1 810 with an archiver, but I don't recall which specific software disk I used with it - or if I even went as far as trying to read/write a copy protected disk...

 

The Happy 1050 version of the archiver is "opened" by default once the drive is "converted" by a boot disk, and does not require entering an open code. The 810 version has to be opened manually (or by special disk with special sector).

 

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

I read the manual and it says to turn the drive on with the The 1050 CHIP 1.1 disk in and it will read sector $2D0 to unlock THE CHIP.

This may only work if the "open" code bytes in sector $2D0 match that of the particular ROM in your Archiver, and only with the original Archiver 810 disk(s) - the later versions that also support the 1050 probably don't have the right data in sector $2D0... I don't recall. It was a "convenience"... I'd have to read up / test this with some other media.

 

Looking at some of my photos, it appears I was using the disk software that identifies as "*** THE 1050 CHIP V1.1 ***" with an 810...

 

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

I did try entering an OPEN CODE of 0000 and 1234 and neither worked.

Ideally you dump the 2732 EPROM to see what the first two bytes are. Two recently dumped ROM's I've come across had open codes of 1595 and 1814. Otherwise there's 65,536 combinations to try... ?

 

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

CopyMate 4.4 fails to access the drive or even give a disk directory.

It's possible you DID get the drive to OPEN successfully. If so, it will cause grief with any programs that attempt to use US Doubler type Ultraspeed, as the Get High Speed Index ($3F) command is used by an opened archiver for some other purpose and causes a timeout.

 

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

Also working on repairing drive case since it was shattered in shipping.

Argh... yeah, Sorry to hear... I've had my own experiences with this... it's heartbreaking! I spent an entire evening using plastic cement trying to puzzle one all back together before I said f*** it. At least the drive and all electronics checks out OK! It is targeted as my "project" drive slated for some sort of future upgrade... probably an archiver since it's the easiest heh. I believe I posted pics with a rant on facebook at the time.. Got a full refund, but still disheartening to see irreplaceable items destroyed.

 

 

 

[Sugarland]

1 hour ago, Nezgar said:

I agree it's confusing.. I believe this is indeed the correct differentiation...

 

I did have some difficultly locating a particular software disk to reference in my first post. There are indeed a number of them, and the collection is muddied by the numerous titles targeted to the version that runs from code uploaded code to a Happy 1050's RAM. I do have 1 810 with an archiver, but I don't recall which specific software disk I used with it - or if I even went as far as trying to read/write a copy protected disk...

 

The Happy 1050 version of the archiver is "opened" by default once the drive is "converted" by a boot disk, and does not require entering an open code. The 810 version does.

 

This may only work if the "open" code bytes in sector $2D0 match that of the particular ROM in your Archiver, and only with the original Archiver 810 disk(s) - the later versions that also support the 1050 probably don't have the right data in sector $2D0... I don't recall. It was a "convenience"... I'd have to read up / test this with some other media.

 

Looking at some of my photos, it appears I was using the disk software that identifies as "*** THE 1050 CHIP V1.1 ***" with an 810...

 

Ideally you dump the 2732 EPROM to see what the first two bytes are. Two recently dumped ROM's I've come across had open codes of 1595 and 1814. Otherwise there's 65,536 combinations to try... ?

 

It's possible you DID get the drive to OPEN successfully. If so, it will cause grief with any programs that attempt to use US Doubler type Ultraspeed, as the Get High Speed Index ($3F) command is used by an opened archiver for some other purpose and causes a timeout.

 

Argh... yeah, Sorry to hear... I've had my own experiences with this... it's heartbreaking! I spent an entire evening using plastic cement trying to puzzle one all back together before I said f*** it. At least the drive and all electronics checks out OK! It is targeted as my "project" drive slated for some sort of future upgrade... probably an archiver since it's the easiest heh. I believe I posted pics with a rant on facebook at the time.. Got a full refund, but still disheartening to see irreplaceable items destroyed.

 

@Nezgar Thank you very much. Ahh okay so the unique code that came with purchaser's disk has the code to unlock it. Makes sense, I guess. They should have the code written on the ROM or something, lol. 

 

A Minipro TL866II Plus will arrive soon. ? Need one anyway. The Chip is a terrible name so yeah it seems people wanted to call it Archiver. I tried the two codes you mentioned. No luck.

 

Regarding repairing the plastics, super glue in the crack and once it dries, baking soda+super glue externally works well to reinforce it.  Super glue in the crack by itself is not strong enough ofc.

 

 

That whole post cracked right off in shipping. It now holds well.  There is more case repair to do.  Need a drill to arrest the two long cracks along the top of the case.  Will fill the holes with the glue+bs.  Put all the smaller pieces in a baggy. Need to find that.

 

 

[E474]

Hi @Sugarland,

 

   There's a selection of alternative Archiver/Editor ATR files here, I'm not sure how reliable the Happy versions will be, as they would (probably) try to reprogram a Happy 1050 before starting the Archiver software: https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_atari?query=Archiver

 

  Either way, nice find on the 810, it's a drive I have always hankered after, but they are a bit scarce to find in the EU.

Edited January 11, 2022 by E474

[BillC]

10 hours ago, Sugarland said:

A Minipro TL866II Plus will arrive soon.

A cartridge PCB can also be used to read EPROM/ROM contents, I used a 16K EPROM cartridge PCB(2 x 2764 sockets) for the 2716 ROM from a Percom AT88-S1 drive.

[Sugarland]

56 minutes ago, BillC said:

A cartridge PCB can also be used to read EPROM/ROM contents, I used a 16K EPROM cartridge PCB(2 x 2764 sockets) for the 2716 ROM from a Percom AT88-S1 drive.

Great idea. Thank you. I will search for instructions on this. Never done it before. ?

[+Larry]

Congrats on the nice purchase.  I was jealous when the 810 Archiver was released, and found that it could copy stuff that my Happy couldn't (until the next software update came out months later).  So I did the logical thing and got the Happy 810 Archiver Software.  It's great software, even today.

[Sugarland]

On 1/11/2022 at 1:44 AM, Nezgar said:

Ideally you dump the 2732 EPROM to see what the first two bytes are. Two recently dumped ROM's I've come across had open codes of 1595 and 1814. Otherwise there's 65,536 combinations to try... ?

 

Got the TL866II Plus and read the MBM2732A. File attached here. I see the first two bytes in HEX as 1410 which did not 'open' the drive in Archiver. =( any ideas please, Nezgar? Maybe it would be better to write a newer or better bin with a known code..?

 

The Chip 2732 ROM from shattered Tandon 810.BIN

[Sugarland]

$1410 is 5136 in decimal which also fails.   [[ OPENING ERROR ]]

[+DjayBee]

Maybe 1014?

[Sugarland]

42 minutes ago, DjayBee said:

Maybe 1014?

Yes tried that inversion too but thanks for the suggestion.. Also tried inverted 5136 which is 123 (1230 and 0123) and nothing worked yet. =(

 

edit: IT WORKED!!  My bad I thought i tried that one.  Awesome! Thank you @DjayBee

Edited January 16, 2022 by Sugarland

[Sugarland]

edit.. nah

Edited January 16, 2022 by Sugarland

[+Nezgar]

Hehe, congrats @Sugarland (and good guess @DjayBee )- yes the interpretation of the bytes would be reversed since 6507 processor is "little endian", so 1014 would be correct.

 

Edit: also thanks for posting the dump - nice to have one more unique specimen from the wild. ?

[Sugarland]

4 hours ago, Nezgar said:

Hehe, congrats @Sugarland (and good guess @DjayBee )- yes the interpretation of the bytes would be reversed since 6507 processor is "little endian", so 1014 would be correct.

 

Edit: also thanks for posting the dump - nice to have one more unique specimen from the wild. ?

 

You're welcome and thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

 

What do you think of the dump file, please tell? Is it older or newer revision or is it altered, etc?

Edited January 16, 2022 by Sugarland

[+Nezgar]

On 1/16/2022 at 1:40 PM, Sugarland said:

What do you think of the dump file, please tell? Is it older or newer revision or is it altered, etc?

Well.... Turns out I actually have 4 previous dumps, and all of them ONLY differ in the first two bytes (the open code).

 

There IS actually a twist... All of the previous dumps I've seen have this text string at the beginning of the ROM from byte 2-44 hex:

* THE CHIP - VERSION 1.0 *
(C) 1983 SPARTAN SOFTWARE OF MINN. INC.

But in yours, the first thing that stands out is these bytes have been zeroed out, except oddly the asterisk and carriage return bytes... But there is a smattering of other changes in the binary data too, making me wonder if the dump was good, so I tested it in Altirra under full drive emulation for the 810 Archiver and it fails similar to if it has no ROM at all, so I think that confirms the dump is bad...

 

Could you please try dumping it a few more times? I've personally had issues with my TL866 reading old 2716's and 2732's reliably - I think it reads them "too fast" or the EPROMs really are so old that their programmed data is on the verge of bit-rot...  You may have to find a way to dump it by putting the EPROM into a cartridge that supports it, and dump it using a DOS "write memory" command. I was able to get a good read of my PERCOM AT88-S1 2716 this way - but I can't remember which cartridge I used at the moment...

 

If not completely corrupt, one difference interesting to me seems to be the sector interleave table at 08CB, used during format:

 

Sugarland Image:

 

12 01 03 05 07 09 0B 0D 0F 11 02 04 06 08 0A 0C 0E 10 (hex)

18 01 03 05 07 08 11 13 15 17 02 04 06 08 10 12 14 16 (decimal)

This matches the "Atari Standard" 810 Revision C, and 1050 single density interleave. (9:1 interleave, 9.0 revs to read a track)

 

vs "known good" image:

 

11 0F 0D 0B 09 07 05 03 01 12 10 0E 0C 0A 08 06 04 02 (hex)

17 15 13 11 08 07 05 03 01 18 16 14 12 10 08 06 04 02 (decimal)

This is the optimized single density "Chicaco" interleave laid down by the Archiver (Chip) 810, Happy 810, 810 Turbo, 1050 Duplicator, US Doubler, etc. (9:1 interleave, but 8.1 revs to read due to optimizing taking the gap into consideration)

 

So..... at first glance, the blanked out naming at the beginning of the ROM would lead you to believe it might be a "hacked" ROM where the copyright text was removed, but I would consider the format interleave to be a "downgrade" as it's slower... The Tandon mechanism was a "later" 810, which didn't show up until November 1982 according to Atari, but that's still supposedly before the Chip/Archiver was released in 1983. So - it's also possible that this was an early or leaked revision compared to the more common firmware.

 

If we can get a good working dump, then maybe we can dig further into the specific code differences and engage the AA disassembly experts, etc...

[+Nezgar]

Of course I realize after I hit post that it only wasn't working with Altirra full drive emulation because the file was already open in my hex editor...  ?‍♂️

 

So with some quick testing booting with Archiver 1.2 and 3.02 software I could "open" the drive by pressing "O" then typing 1014,1 (other codes fail as expected) and read in a source disk by pressing C then Start.

 

So indeed this dump works, and maybe the likes of @phaeron can dig into the firmware further, to see if differences found maybe suggest this 810 Chip / Archiver ROM is older than the regular "VERSION 1.0", or just hacked/patched...

 

Edit: Referenced "The Archiver V1.2" disk is here: (although interestingly truncated to 65K, so the software will report some higher tracks as having missing sectors)

https://archive.org/details/a8b_Archiver_The_v1.2_198x_Spartan_Software

[+Nezgar]

Here is the post with some very nice documentation for the Archiver software: (Specifically the SCANIT.doc and SCANIT.pdf) - Appears to be the version distributed by B&C Computervisions.

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/249750-bitwriter-replica-1050-order-phase-has-started/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-3502155

 

Page 29 mentions the unlock code is "9999" so I guess all the ROMs from B&C would have that code.

 

One interesting section we touched on earlier @Sugarland was that of making a disk that will automatically "open" the drive. See this excerpt from page 29:

Quote

LOCKING THE CHIP

 

A special boot sector can be created which will lock the CHIP program either open or closed. This is a safeguard to prevent programs from looking for the CHIP program. TO create this sector, first copy track $27 from the ARCHIVER program disk to your special boot disk. Then use the editor and disassembler on sector $12 of track $27 (sector 720) and notice the LDA and STA codes. Location $019D is the LOCK FLAG. Storing $80 in this location locks the CHIP program open. Storing an $FF locks it closed. Change the code and write it to disk. You will now have a special boot disk which will force the drive closed or open and the drive will stay that way until it is turned off.

 

Most of my disks seem to have a blank sector 720, or the disks are truncated to 65K...  But I found one "The Super Archiver II 3.03.atr" (which is also in that above linked post) DOES contain a sector 720 with what appears to fit the description!

 

16790: A9 02 8D 92 01 EA EA EA A9 80 8D 95 01 EA EA EA 
167A0: A9 01 8D 9D 01 EA EA EA A9 01 8D 91 01 EA EA EA 
167B0: A9 00 8D 9C 01 EA EA EA 60

Dissassembles to:
0000   A9 02                LDA #$02
0002   8D 92 01             STA $0192
0005   EA                   NOP
0006   EA                   NOP
0007   EA                   NOP
0008   A9 80                LDA #$80
000A   8D 95 01             STA $0195
000D   EA                   NOP
000E   EA                   NOP
000F   EA                   NOP
0010   A9 01                LDA #$01
0012   8D 9D 01             STA $019D
0015   EA                   NOP
0016   EA                   NOP
0017   EA                   NOP
0018   A9 01                LDA #$01
001A   8D 91 01             STA $0191
001D   EA                   NOP
001E   EA                   NOP
001F   EA                   NOP
0020   A9 00                LDA #$00
0022   8D 9C 01             STA $019C
0025   EA                   NOP
0026   EA                   NOP
0027   EA                   NOP
0028   60                   RTS

So that LDA #$80 then STA $0195 should in theory 'OPEN' the drive automatically. Looking at all the NOP's spaced out, implies room was intentionally left for adding more code. Some pretty nifty flexibility there for such an early product...

 

Quote

THE BOOT SECTOR

 

When the 810 disk drive is turned on with the CHIP modification installed, the head will first align itself on track 0, then will immediately return to track $27 and read sector $2D0 (if present).

 

The CHIP program checks the last two bytes of the sector and compares them to $4A, $25 (or J % in ASCII). If the last two bytes are a $ 4A and $ 25, then the program control will be transferred to the sector data for execution O n the SCAN IT! diskette, the boot sector will store a $80 in $195 which will open the drive. It also stores a $02 in $191 which will make the drive shut off one second after it was last accessed. A return is then executed which brings the CHIP program back to its warm entry.

Indeed, the last two bytes of sector 720 are 4A 25 in "The Super Archiver II 3.03.atr" - So this may have been a way to "open" the drive before we knew what the code was...

[+nasty niff]

Open code for my 1050 archiver is abcd,2.

Set drive to d2 for read and write.

 

 

[+Nezgar]

7 minutes ago, mistapaul said:

Open code for my 1050 archiver is abcd,2.

Did you patch & program your own ROM for that sequential open code?

 

Edit: Oh - So you must mean a 1050 Super Archiver then?  Did 1050 Super Archivers also have unique factory open codes like the 810? I know less about those...

[+nasty niff]

No, always used that code for my 1050 archiver since the 80s and the same code works on my 1050 archiver replica

[+nasty niff]

Yeah all 1050 archivers use the same code as far as I'm aware

[+DjayBee]

Since the Archiver functionality in the 1050 is not active permanently and the open code is a safeguard against detection by software, there is not much sense in having diffferent open codes for the 1050.