Source for 5 pin DIN to SVideo cable for A800?

[joeventura]

Trying to hook my 800 (Not XE) to modern day video and best I have heard is use a 5 pin din cable that combine chroma Luma into S Video then use an S video to HDMI converter.

 

Used to be able to buy them at http://herculesworkshop.com/  but they are out of stock 

 

Any sources anyone knows of?

[joeventura]

Disregard, think I found one!

 

https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/

[Beeblebrox]

@joeventura  Make sure it's double shielded, like the hercules ones. Or at the very least single shielded. A lot of cables have little or no shielding at all. I have 2 of the hercules cables and they are great.?

 

Edit: I'd say it's extremely unlikely that 8bit classics cable has any proper shielding, if any. Just skim read it and it doesn't mention anything. 

 

Generally 800 video quality is great but makes sense to get a good quality svideo cable. I really noticed the difference with my XL and XE machines and the hercules cables compared to standard cables. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[_The Doctor__]

Hercules will make what you want, just let them know you need one. Drop an email etc.

[griff3125]

The 8-bit classics cable is alright, and for $12.00 it's an easy buy and will tide you by.

But definitely keep pursuing that Hercules cable, there's a big difference in build quality

and you'll definitely get better results.

[+mytek]

The 8-bit classics cable does NOT have INDIVIDUALLY SHIELDED wires or is suitable for S-Video use (I know from personal experience). Stick with Hercules ?

 

And anyone that says otherwise, is either very lucky to have such a forgiving monitor, or probably needs better glasses ?

 

Hercules Workshop doesn't build a lot of stock, so it's best to contact them to express an interest in buying something, and they will build to order.

 

If you don't require the mini-DIN4 plug, this type of cable also works very well (you can see the individual shielded cables for each plug).

 

 

These are sold on eBay and Amazon, and I believe B&C has them as well.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by mytek
added alternative cable pic

[manterola]

I have created this solution for the video cables problem. Not sure it s really convenient, but at least the video quality is very good (depending on what kind of cables you plug)

Not suitable for the Atari 800, though. At least not yet. Excellent fix for 130/65XE, and not bad for 800/600XL

 

[reifsnyderb]

7 hours ago, mytek said:

The 8-bit classics cable does NOT have INDIVIDUALLY SHIELDED wires or is suitable for S-Video use (I know from personal experience). Stick with Hercules ?

 

And anyone that says otherwise, is either very lucky to have such a forgiving monitor, or probably needs better glasses ?

 

Hercules Workshop doesn't build a lot of stock, so it's best to contact them to express an interest in buying something, and they will build to order.

 

If you don't require the mini-DIN4 plug, this type of cable also works very well (you can see the individual shielded cables for each plug).

 

 

These are sold on eBay and Amazon, and I believe B&C has them as well.

 

I just (grudgingly) added the chroma fix to my 800XL and still have a slight "shadow" around the graphics.  My 800's have this as well.  Could the cables be why my Atari 800XL has this shadow?

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, reifsnyderb said:

I just (grudgingly) added the chroma fix to my 800XL and still have a slight "shadow" around the graphics.  My 800's have this as well.  Could the cables be why my Atari 800XL has this shadow?

Maybe, but normally poor shielding results in jailbars. Shadowing is usually the result of a mismatch in video timing often times caused by capacitance in the luma circuit to GND. So the capacitance causes a delay in the luminance, creating that offset from the color. I believe Atari intentionally did this to slightly blur the text in order to smooth the jaggies resulting from the relatively low resolution.  Not sure which systems had this, maybe check the schematics to see.

.

 

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, manterola said:

I just saw this. Very slick, and what a great solution ?

 

Any gerbers?

 

[reifsnyderb]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

Maybe, but normally poor shielding results in jailbars. Shadowing is usually the result of a mismatch in video timing often times caused by capacitance in the luma circuit to GND. So the capacitance causes a delay in the luminance, creating that offset from the color. I believe Atari intentionally did this to slightly blur the text in order to smooth the jaggies resulting from the relatively low resolution.  Not sure which systems had this, maybe check the schematics to see.

.

 

You may have been referring to C56.  This capacitor was on my 800XL Rev C board and I removed it as per some instructions I found.  I did that when I connected pin 5 so I don't know what the before/after comparison would be.

 

Looking over the schematics and some other instructions I found that removing capacitor C54 took care of my severe jailbar problem.  The video is greatly cleaned up but still has some sort of shadowing or ghosting of the color.  I compared this with one of my 800's and it has the same problem.  Removing capacitor C54 has the effect of removing color from composite video.  But with the chroma fix it looks great.

 

I checked for any other signs of capacitors, in the schematic, but didn't find anything else that looked promising.  I'll have to compare the 800XL with the 600XLM board as I used a THS7314D on the 600XLM...which when all of the RF components are removed really simplifies the circuit.  

 

After comparing the 800 and 800xl schematics I don't know why they changed things as the 800 schematic looks like a better video design.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

 

Edit:  It was capacitor C54, not C55.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by reifsnyderb

[olix]

I like this AV adapter. Where can i buy one?

[Beeblebrox]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:30 AM, reifsnyderb said:

You may have been referring to C56.  This capacitor was on my 800XL Rev C board and I removed it as per some instructions I found.  I did that when I connected pin 5 so I don't know what the before/after comparison would be.

 

Looking over the schematics and some other instructions I found that removing capacitor C54 took care of my severe jailbar problem.  The video is greatly cleaned up but still has some sort of shadowing or ghosting of the color.  I compared this with one of my 800's and it has the same problem.  Removing capacitor C54 has the effect of removing color from composite video.  But with the chroma fix it looks great.

 

I checked for any other signs of capacitors, in the schematic, but didn't find anything else that looked promising.  I'll have to compare the 800XL with the 600XLM board as I used a THS7314D on the 600XLM...which when all of the RF components are removed really simplifies the circuit.  

 

After comparing the 800 and 800xl schematics I don't know why they changed things as the 800 schematic looks like a better video design.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

 

Edit:  It was capacitor C54, not C55.

 

 

@reifsnyderb  Quick question.

 

I have restored the Chroma on a stock Rev D 800XL via the usual jumper wire, (100-ohm resistor in the wire to the junction of R67 and R68 and then to pin 5 of the Din socket - I've done this many times on 800XLs). 

See image below.

 

However I appear to have jailbars and zigzags when outputted to LCD screens via my double shielded DIN to S-video cable for this particular 800XL for some reason. (I have done the same for others and don't have the same issue).

Couple of image examples below to illustrate said jailbars/zigzags. 

 

So if I go ahead and remove the C54 Cap to clear the jailbars/zigzags when using S-video, as I understand it I will no longer have composite colour should I also want to use a Din to composite cable in future - is that correct?

 

Is there a way to get rid of the jailbars/zigzags for S-video and still keep my colour composite as I want to have the option for using both S-video and composite cables?

 

        

[reifsnyderb]

36 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@reifsnyderb  Quick question.

 

I have restored the Chroma on a stock Rev D 800XL via the usual jumper wire, (100-ohm resistor in the wire to the junction of R67 and R68 and then to pin 5 of the Din socket - I've done this many times on 800XLs). 

See image below.

 

However I appear to have jailbars and zigzags when outputted to LCD screens via my double shielded DIN to S-video cable for this particular 800XL for some reason. (I have done the same for others and don't have the same issue).

Couple of image examples below to illustrate said jailbars/zigzags. 

 

So if I go ahead and remove the C54 Cap to clear the jailbars/zigzags when using S-video, as I understand it I will no longer have composite colour should I also want to use a Din to composite cable in future - is that correct?

 

Is there a way to get rid of the jailbars/zigzags for S-video and still keep my colour composite as I want to have the option for using both S-video and composite cables?  

 

 

Removing C54 disconnects chroma from composite video.  I don't know of a way to do both and am quite new at this. 

 

While I haven't given it much thought, something I'd try would be to replace C54 with a different value capacitor.  C54 is 1 nf.  So, I'd try something smaller...maybe in the picofarad range and see what happens.  My thought (theory?) is a lower value capacitor would still transmit the signal without having as much capacitance.  Without trying it, I don't know.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brian

 

 

 

[manterola]

I used a switch hidden in the back, probably behind the PBI cover. I use SVideo most of the time, but in case I need composite I close the switch.

Edited March 31, 2022 by manterola

[Beeblebrox]

@manterola  Thanks. That is an ioption I guess. Still don't understand why I don't get the same issue with my other stock 800XLs or my 600XLs with their Chroma's hooked up - on LCD outputs. The jailbars/zigzags seem exclusive to this 800XL.

[manterola]

Is it a Chelco one? maybe that's the common denominator... 

[Beeblebrox]

Nope, don't think so. Stock Taiwan made rev d pal. 

[Beeblebrox]

22 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

 

 

Removing C54 disconnects chroma from composite video.  I don't know of a way to do both and am quite new at this. 

 

While I haven't given it much thought, something I'd try would be to replace C54 with a different value capacitor.  C54 is 1 nf.  So, I'd try something smaller...maybe in the picofarad range and see what happens.  My thought (theory?) is a lower value capacitor would still transmit the signal without having as much capacitance.  Without trying it, I don't know.

 

Best Regards,

 

Brian

 

 

 

@reifsnyderb  After doing a little more research on AA threads, I ended up going down the switch option to keep composite but enable me to turn it on and off, thus get a clear image for S-video.

 

For anyone who isn't familiar with this mod, here how I did mine. I wanted it to be concealed and not protrude from the casing or require any holes drilled. I also wanted it to be easily detatchable.

 

I lifted the right side of the C54 capacitor to hook into a 2 position mini slide switch circult I created which turns the composite circuit on and off. Means I can use S-video with a crisp picture on an LCD, and composite also if needed at any stage.

 

Mod worked a treat. No sooner is the C54 removed from the circuit do the jailbars/zigzags/checkerboard patterns disappear with an S-video connection on an LCD. Flick the little 2 pos concealed slide switch with a pen or small screwdriver and they come back but there it's ready to use with a composite cable.

Given the slide switch is concealed in the upped casing, (pokes through one of the XL's vents), I needed a way to unhook the cable as removing the upper casing/keyboard happens quite often. So I created a detachable header connector.

 

I know it's generally documented but here is mine just in case it is helpful:

 

Lift the right side of the C54 cap:

 

 

Create a 2 x part detachable header cable and attach to the 2 position slide switch,

(mine is secured with electrician's tape to stope it from pulling apart later when putting the casing on):

 

 

Make sure the calbe is going to be long enough to comfortably reach the casing vent and also route around the shielding later.

 

Solder one wire of the cabling to the end of the lifted C54, and the other in the C54's original via on the PCB:

 

 

 

 

 

Testing

 

Circuit open, C54 not engaged, jailbars/zigzigs gone, composite not availabe but great S-video output:

 

        

 

 

Circuit closed, C54 engaged, jailbars/zigzags return, composite circuit available again:

 

          

 

 

            

 

 

Slide switch glued in place through the upper casing vent:

 

 

          

 

Hooked up before casing closed:

Edited April 1, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

Who'd have thought the simple removal of the C54 cap would make such a difference to LCD displays eh?

 

Before:      After:  

[manterola]

On 3/7/2022 at 8:17 AM, olix said:

I like this AV adapter. Where can i buy one?

PM me

[manterola]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:46 PM, mytek said:

I just saw this. Very slick, and what a great solution ?

 

Any gerbers?

 

manterola/Fuji-A-V-Adapter: PCB for Atari 8 bits A/V adapter (github.com)

[olix]

I saw that you publish the gerber files. So i could let make the pcb myself. But the problen could be to find the right fitting parts. Could you publish also a bom with the Part-Numbers f.e. from mouser.com?

 

[Crc_Error]

http://herculesworkshop.com/cgi-bin/p/awtp-product-category.cgi?d=hercules-workshop&pc=15424

[seastalker_returns]

Beeblebrox, I like this switch idea, ESPECIALLY when doing a completely NEW build from scratch! I'm not installing a RF adapter nor "Channel 2-3" switch, so I'd love to apply your switch to the latter. The muscle memory of using the channel 2-3 switch for this would also qualify as a no-cut mod like yours, but respectfully (I mean that!) would provide easier access to your very stealth no cut switch. This would re-purpose the stock switch if not using RF at all, but retain composite and S-Video. 

 

I haven't ordered a replacement 2-3 switch which the BOM I'm using excludes. Anyone have a part# for Mouser, Digikey, etc? Soldering to the board isn't needed except for stability, but I think this solution would be ideal. 

 

Aside: Beeblebrox, in your pics, does your case there NOT have a hole for Channel 2-3? I see that no switch is present on the board and would love the backstory (maybe the nerdiest sentence I've ever muttered). 

[Now I just have to think of a Sophia no-cut mod that internally converts DVI to HDMI and then get some port that fits the RF case hole.] 

Edited June 5, 2023 by seastalker_returns