project7800 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I have only ever owned a color monitor for my ST, a SC1224. This might sound like a strange request, but can people with a high resolution monitor share what software they use that requires a higher resolution? After all these years, I guess I just want to explore software that uses high resolution especially and I would like some suggestions about quality software that takes advantage of this graphics mode. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian1 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Using a monochrome monitor is a life changer when using productivity software. Pretty much anything that uses the text character set will be a big improvement. Those 200 extra vertical pixels make all the text and even the GEM desktop icons (like the file drawers, trash can, and other icons) look "normal" because they are the correct horizontal/vertical proportion. For example, in real life, file cabinet drawers are usually square, not rectangular. In ST medium, all the text and icons are elongated because it only has 200 vertical pixels instead of 400 vertical pixels. You really need a mono monitor for desktop publishing graphics software. Back then, color printers were still expensive, so everything DTP was black & white. If everything is B&W and you get 200 more vertical pixels, it's pretty much a no brainer. This means you can see more of your artwork onscreen at once, so you have less scrolling to do, especially when you are zoomed in to fine tune your piece of artwork pixel by pixel. Since 300 dpi artwork is bigger than your screen, the higher vertical resolution helps you speed up your work. Now, you can do all this in medium or low resolution color, but it wouldn't be as productive (more scrolling) and costly (expensive color printers/ink/photocopying). In the music software area, having 200 extra vertical pixels definitely helps if you are creating music scores/sheet music. In Notator (the most popular/advanced music notation software on the ST), I can squeeze at least twice as many staves onscreen at once compared to color modes. If you're working on a large orchestral score or a multi-track song, having more tracks/staves onscreen at once makes it easier to see where the notes are on each track and where all the notes are related to each other. The dialog boxes also look elongated to the point of almost overlapping each other, so having a mono monitor makes it easier to see everything. The only popular software that I can think of that requires monochrome mode (off the top of my head) is Cubase, but I'm sure there are others that people on here can fill in. Anyway, that's my take. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Higher res was ideal for CAD SW. One example: my friend used it regularly for his business: Platine ST https://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1986/09_platinest.php It has only German version. Well, today I don't think that 640x400 px. is something we need. This is interesting mostly from historical reasons. People with high res. monitor ? Actually, most of people now have high res monitor, with much bigger res. than ST high. And all it in 16 million colors. And back to topic: big part of them will display Atari ST monochrome signal. Need only proper cable and VGA input. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I loved my Mono monitor, it was so clear and bright and made programming also much easier. My only gripe (minor issue) was why Atari decide to make the screen so small. I also used it for Word Processor/DTP/CAD packages I still have my original, but it died sometime ago and efforts to resurrect it have so far failed. As @ParanoidLittleMan says, easy enough to make a mono cable and hook up to a VGA monitor, I use an old DELL LCD and it look great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwrd Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) I don't know of much software that *required* high resolution, and it would be to software developers advantage to offer medium resolution options, if possible. When I first got an ST, I had only the monochrome monitor. The only software I recall early was a jigsaw puzzle game (from Germany?) that zoomed out to another puzzle as you solved one. The music is back and stuck in my head as I think about the game. When we sold ST's, the colour monitors were very expensive. Our approach was "buy the computer for serious and educational uses, so get a monochrome monitor and plug in a tv if the kids want to play a game". Due to product revisions, there was a point in time when a 520STfm with additional floppy drive was significantly less expensive than the SC1224 ($599 vs $699, if I recall correctly). When Atari introduced the 520STfm with a dual sided floppy, they sold off the single sided machines with single sided floppies at a bargain price. I think originally the SC1224 sold for only about $50 cheaper than the 520STfm. To flip your question (for fun), there was a fairly size able Mac community in town, and one day one of the Mac owners came in to see the ST. I showed him the ST running as a Mac (Magic Sac?) with the bigger screen monitor and higher resolution, then I showed him the same with the colour monitor, and the blurring of the pixels introduced colours on the screen. It looked very consistent colour-wise, although medium res was blurry. He almost peed seeing the Mac software running in colour. ? (I edited my typos.... ?) Edited March 5, 2022 by hwrd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwrd Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 21 minutes ago, TGB1718 said: I loved my Mono monitor, it was so clear and bright and made programming also much easier. My only gripe (minor issue) was why Atari decide to make the screen so small. You are totally correct that the screen was small in absolute terms, but when comparing it to the Mac screen at the time (the direct monochrome contemporary), it was a large screen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Smaller screen = smaller price. And that size was perfectly good for work on desk, close to eyes . Ah, eyes : 71 Hz refresh rate was very good for eyes, or ergonomic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 38 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said: Ah, eyes : 71 Hz refresh rate was very good for eyes, or ergonomic. Was great, I even persuaded my workplace to buy a Mega ST with both Mono and Colour screens, we used CAD package to produce circuit diagrams and board layouts, also to create data modules that drove an automated test system, files were transferred to HP systems via RS232 due to floppy disk incompatibility (HP always did things their own way) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djglish Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 If you have an extra monitor cable it isn't too hard to make an ST to VGA monochrome cable. The high resolution will work with a standard monitor that has a VGA input. The older 4/4 screens work better since they maintain the proper height to width ratio. Years ago I had a multiscan VGA monitor that would sync down to the low/medium color settings. I built a switchbox that would let me switch between the two. Now I use it with a VGA to HDMI converter that upscales the low/medium signal to standard HDMI output. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bani Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 These software worked much better in hi res: Calamus Cubase Pagestream Most word processing software Very few games supported it, the ones I remember: Starglider Bolo Brataccas Most sierra on-line adventure games (Space Quest, etc) Megaroids Oxyd Shanghai 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project7800 Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 24 minutes ago, bani said: These software worked much better in hi res: Calamus Cubase Pagestream Most word processing software Very few games supported it, the ones I remember: Starglider Bolo Brataccas Most sierra on-line adventure games (Space Quest, etc) Megaroids Oxyd Shanghai Excellent! Thank you! This is kind of what I was looking for. Very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Count of ST games which work in monochrome mode is not so low. Here is partial list: http://atari.8bitchip.info/monocg.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, bani said: Very few games supported it, the ones I remember: Starglider Bolo Brataccas Most sierra on-line adventure games (Space Quest, etc) Megaroids Oxyd Shanghai It's probably a no brainer, but the Infocom adventures all worked in high resolution. Of course, by their very nature, they are text, so there's really no reason that they wouldn't have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 I had an SM125 BITD. I bought it so I could use the word processors for my college work. The only other screen I had was a 14-inch Mitsubishi TV on the RF output. Fine for games, but terrible for productivity. A color monitor was beyond my means. As others have stated, all productivity software should run fine in hi-res mode. I also used it for PC-Ditto where it would "emulate" IBM MDA mode. I would bring DOS 3 and Turbo Pascal home from college and work on assignments on my 520ST. I seem to recall several Atari Corp games running in hi-res mode. Battlezone for certain, plus Millipede, Moon Patrol and I think Crystal Castles. In the past there's been whole threads on games than run in mono. The mono monitor not only was a higher resolution than the color options, but used a much higher refresh rate. From memory it was close to 70hz so the image was very stable and less likely to cause eye strain. Not quite as pleasing IMO as a green or amber phosphor monitor, which I could gaze at for hours, but very pleasing nonetheless. The 12" screen was larger than the Macintosh offered at the time, but I recall a rather wide margin around the visible screen that diminished the screen size quite a bit. You could adjust the monitor to stretch the image closer to the edges, but magazine articles at the time warned this would risk damaging the monitor. I ignored these warnings and did it anyway, and I don't recall any negative side effects, but I ended up selling my ST set up about a year after I got the SM125 as I was planning to move to PCs since university was all PC-based, and PC-Ditto just wasn't cutting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, oracle_jedi said: I was planning to move to PCs since university was all PC-based, and PC-Ditto just wasn't cutting it Not sure of the name, but I think it was called "SideKick", a hardware addon that ran MS-DOS and used the ST for keyboard/screen/disk and as it was hardware it ran at full PC speed (286 processor) Don't know if it plugged in the parallel port or DMA port. A friend actually bought one and showed it to us in work. Edited March 6, 2022 by TGB1718 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 There are quite literally a *ton* of ST games that work in Hi-Res... Hope this helps. ST High compatible games 12 Jahrhundert, Das 3D Labyrinth 3D Lab 4-7-11 20000 Leagues Under The Sea 8 Ball Acidopolis Adventure Agros Alpha Waves Anduril Angband Annals of Rome Arcade Mania Arger Asteroids AstroPanic 94 AstroPanic Backgammon Backgammon Royale Balance of Power Balance of Power - The 1990 Edition Ballerburg Ballyhoo BattleZone Beyond Zork - The Coconut of Quendor Black & White Black Box Black Cauldron, The Blackjack Plus 3 Blueberry Bob Winner Bolo Borderzone Borrowed Time Boston Bomb Club Brataccas Breakout Bride of the Robot Bundesliga Manager Bubble Trouble Bunny Bricks Bureaucracy Cards Castle Combat Cave Runner II Checkmate Chess Champion 2175 Chess Player 2150 Chipgame Club Backgammon Coboerse Coco Coq in Grostesteing Coco Coq in Base de Grostesteing CoCoCoPo Colonel's Bequest, The Colorado Columns Conquests of Camelot Corruption Crystal Castles Crystal of Arborea Cutthroats Dam DataChess II Deathstrike DGDB Donald Ducks Playground Dozer Drachen Drachen von Laas, Die DST Eiskalt Eiskalt II Electronic Pool Emmanuelle Empire: Wargame of the Century Enchanter - txt only Enigme a Madrid Anigme a Oxford Esprit Exodrom Eplode Extensor Fall & Fit Fire Brigade Fish! Flight Simulator II Flip Flop Flip Side From Little Acorns Fussball-ST Gem AmiGo General Gilgalad Gnome Ranger Gnome Ranger 2 - Ingrid's Back GNU Chess 4.0 Gnuchess Go Board Gobang Gold Rush! Gomoku GPPD Great Courts Guild of Thieves, The21 Halma Hangman Hank's Quest - Victim of Society Hanse Hascs - serial Hellowoon - Das Geheimnis des Zauberstabs Hero's Quest Hexagon Hippo Backgammon Hotshot checkers Hoyle´s Book of Games Volume 1 Hoyle´s Book of Games Volume 2 Imperium Indian Mission Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Insel, Die Invaders Invers Inversi Ishar - Legend Of The Fortress Ishar II - Messengers of Doom Ishar III - The Seven Gates of Infinity Ishido Jackpot JET Jewels of Darkness Jinxter27 King's Quest - Quest for the Crown King's Quest II - Romancing the Throne King's Quest III - To Heir is Human King's Quest IV - The Perils of Rosella Kniffel Knight Orc Krabat Chess Lancelot Lands of Havoc Legend of Faerghall Legend of the Sword Leisure Suit Larry - The Land of the Lounge Lizards Leisure Suit Larry 2 - Goes Looking for Love Leisure Suit Larry 3 - Passionate Patti in Pursuit of the Pulsating Pecto Leonid Loom Lucky Luke Lurking Horror, The18 Mac Pan Macro War Magnetic Scrolls Collection, The Manhunter - New York Manhunter 2 - San Francisco Maniac Mansion Maze, The Mega-Memory Megaroids Metal Mutant Midi Maze Midi Maze II Midi Maze Plus Millipede Mind Forever Voyaging, A Mindshadow Missile Command (High Res Version) Mission Mission X Monkey Business - mono Moonmist Moon Patrol Mortville Manor Moving Puzzle Myth Nam 1965-1975 No Limit No Limit 2 Nord and Bert Not a penny more, Not a penny less Ogre Oil Imperium Online Backgammon Ooze Opus No. 1 Other Place Oxyd (High Res Version) Oxyd 2 (High Res Version) Pawn, The Perfect Match Perry Mason - The Case of the Mandarin Murder Phantasie 1 Phoenix Planetfall Play Me Police Quest - In Pursuit of the Death Angel Police Quest II - The Vengeance Pooz Power Struggle Proflight Pro Tennis Tour Psion Chess Red Alert : Europe Red Alert : USA Renaissance Riddle & Rime's Riskant! Robert in The Fire Factory Robotron 2084 Rocket Defense Rody & Mastico serial Runner's Revenge Sargon III Scapeghost Schrott Invaders Seastalker Second World, The Secret of Monkey Island, The Shanghai Sigma Silicon Dreams - compilation - Snowball, Eden, Worm Snake Pit 2 Sorceror's Appraisal, The Space Quest - The Sarien Encounter Space Quest II - Vohaul's Revenge Space Quest III - The Pirates of Pestulon Space Trek Space War Spacefighter Two Spacola Special Delivery ST Checkers Springer Starblade Starglider Starglider II Stone Age STetris Sumkuvit II Suspect28 Tennis (High Res Version) Tetris (Mirrorsoft) Tetris - PD Tex McPhilip - Road To Divinity Time and Magik Titan Find - Demo Tonight the Shrieking Corpses Bleed Tracker Ultima II - Revenge of the Enchantress Ultima III - Exodus UMS URI Quest Vector Invasion Vegas Craps Vegas Gambler Vermeer Voodoo Girl Queen of the Darned Wall Street Wizard Wall$treet Wallball Wind Surf Willy Winnie The Pooh .. Wizard Royal Wonderland YAGC Yuppi's Revenge Zarge Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders Zork - The Undiscovered Underground Zork I - The Great Underground Empire Zork II - The Wizard of Frobozz Zork III - The Dungeon Master 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwrd Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 2 hours ago, DarkLord said: There are quite literally a *ton* of ST games that work in Hi-Res... Hope this helps. ST High compatible games Phoenix oh my! what is Phoenix? Is it the arcade game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, hwrd said: oh my! what is Phoenix? Is it the arcade game? Probably not. I can't see any version for the ST. It's probably this http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-st-phoenix_21028.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwrd Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, bfollowell said: Probably not. I can't see any version for the ST. It's probably this http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-st-phoenix_21028.html Thanks. Never heard of this one. I will check it out tho! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project7800 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 @DarkLordWow! Thanks! I had no idea there were this many games in Hi-Res! Seeing this makes me wonder about programming in monochrome. How difficult was it? Is the code completely different? I've ordered a monochrome VGA cable that will connect to a modern display. Meanwhile, I'm going to dive into this list and play some of these in Hatari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 The main differences are if you handle screen processes manually, I believe if you use "A Line" routines to move stuff around this will be done for you. Same for any built in processes (AES,VDI) Have a look at this, attached is the 'C' program, it will run in any resolution, just a screen saver I wrote back in 1989 so don't be too critical of the code Press any key twice to exit. WRAITH.PRG WRAITH.C 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 For me it was color for games and high-res for real work.. unless the work involved color of course :) The monochrome monitor was crisp and easy on the eyes. I also always never liked ST's medium res all that much. Weird pixel aspect, not enough colors to be very useful. Icons were not aspect-corrected and looked funny in med res. When it comes to games there were two types 1) Low res games that also work in high- but these are usually 320x200 games that dither some pixels for shading in high-res and don't look the greatest. Others that were designed specifically for high-res could look stunning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimchipenguin Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Basically any productivity software that didn't use GEM windows was mono-only. Many German public domain games were mono-only as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project7800 Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 3:07 AM, TGB1718 said: The main differences are if you handle screen processes manually, I believe if you use "A Line" routines to move stuff around this will be done for you. Same for any built in processes (AES,VDI) Have a look at this, attached is the 'C' program, it will run in any resolution, just a screen saver I wrote back in 1989 so don't be too critical of the code Press any key twice to exit. WRAITH.PRG 4.56 kB · 2 downloads WRAITH.C 5.68 kB · 3 downloads Thanks, @TGB1718! I really appreciate you sharing the code, especially. I have been checking out some monochrome games on @DarkLord's list, and watching some YouTube video's on the Atari ST Nostalgia channel. He has a whole playlist of monochrome games. It seems when those games aren't specifically in hi-res, there are potential issues with sprites blending into the background, etc. I think it must provide some interesting programming challenges. Seeing more software in hi-res does make me realize that there is a certain charm to it. It is certainly easier on the eyes in many cases, and I figure if one is going to be using productivity software, it's essential. I'm intrigued by the potential in games programming, however. I'm teaching myself 68K assembly right now, and I just might take myself in that direction to see what interesting things I can discover. Thanks, again, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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