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Side3 issues....

PE1PQX

By PE1PQX
in Atari 8-Bit Computers

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w1k Stargunner

w1k

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Piotr D. Kaczorowski said:

 

You are the first! :)))    Even on the home page there is no 0.70 :)

 

Best,

Piotr

 

seriously, this fix problem with missing loader, boot errors, etc.. system with sparta dos is more stable, but not 100%.. and some functions in loader doesnt work - i cant see directory when i run cmd.xex, etc)

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Piotr D. Kaczorowski Moonsweeper

Piotr D. Kaczorowski

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, w1k said:

seriously, this fix problem with missing loader, boot errors, etc.. system with sparta dos is more stable, but not 100%.. and some functions in loader doesnt work - i cant see directory when i run cmd.xex, etc)

 

This is the software development process. With good feedback, I'm sure that @flashjazzcat will find the time and make the needed updates.

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flashjazzcat Quadrunner

flashjazzcat

Posted
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No, the update doesn't determinately fix problems like the loader not starting at all, etc. This particular version fixed the 'hard emulation' problem and nothing else, but if users know better, then who is the author to disagree. :D

 

Generally, the show-stopping issues are caused by the bus stability issues already so exhaustively discussed (as proof, the exact same loader commonly starts to work perfectly when the user swaps an IC in his machine). An exception is the bug in CMD.XEX, which is new... unfortunately I've had no time for bug fixes and development these past few months.

 

In addition, nothing I do will change behaviour of SpartaDOS X, since I don't maintain SDX.

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Beeblebrox Quadrunner

Beeblebrox

Posted
Posted (edited)

@w1k I've not read all the thread but the latest side3 s3loader ver 69 which is available on fjcs's page is good. The problems you are having I don't think are down to a corrupt side cart firmware, but I maybe wrong. 

 

There are various factors for a stable system when running side3 and or u1mb.

 

One thing is you need to have the same cmd file that comes with the s3loader version. So make sure that is the case. Don't use an older cmd file with the current version of the side3 loader firmware. So use the cmd that comes zipped in the ver 69 zip. 

 

With u1mb enhanced computers when using side3, make sure you have the fjc firmware installed (latest is 4.20 from January 2023 this year). The make sure the side3 plug in flashed to the u1mb.

 

Also as mentioned at very least replace 74ls08 with a 74f08 chip if you still experience some instability. 

 

Fyi you won't be able to read Apt formatted partitions in the cmd as it can only read fat partitions. If you want to read apt the you can do in spartados x. 

 

To write to apt partitions in spartados x you need a particular driver preloaded in spartados x. 

 

For the side3 cart you can have apt as well as fat16/32 partitions existing side by side. 

 

Edit: BTW some stability issues can be down to the cpu. Some cpu's cause instability. Mexico manufacturered ones are sometimes cited as causing issues with u1mb and or side3. I had a 600xl that has instability. Swapping g it out for another cpu made elsewhere fixed it. 

 

As mentioned of course there is the 02 fixer chip as well, which replaces the 74ls08.

 

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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woj Dragonstomper

woj

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

Edit: BTW some stability issues can be down to the cpu. Some cpu's cause instability. Mexico manufacturered ones are sometimes cited as causing issues with u1mb and or side3. I had a 600xl that has instability. Swapping g it out for another cpu made elsewhere fixed it.

And I for a change had an exact opposite experience, the Mexican CPU saving my system's stability ;) In two different machines.

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PE1PQX Star Raider

PE1PQX

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I have received my Fujinet from Lotharek today.

Also I have been run down by the flu a few days, so no Atari for me the last week or 2
However, my problems with Side3 are not over sadly. Often the cart causes my Atari to run the (internal) selftest.... a warm-reset does not work there, the selftest shows up in a heartbeat. Only a cold-boot (power-off -> power-on) will help.
At the moment I'm pretty fed-up and highly disappointed with the side3 cart. 😒

Now some testing with the Fujinet + U1MB....

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Beeblebrox Quadrunner

Beeblebrox

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PE1PQX said:

At the moment I'm pretty fed-up and highly disappointed with the side3 cart. 😒

It's normal to be frustrated. However I have fixed and or upgraded many many a8s from 800xl's to 600xl's, 1200xls to XEGS and 800s, and all XEs. I use and test my side3 in all of them. You might find no issues with XL/XE 10 machines and the 11th has stability issues. Then the next 10 machines are fine.

 

Using some retro tech with modern tech sometimes shows issues. A lot of internal upgrades sometimes need system tweaks to get them to work. All A8's often use components from different component and pcb manufacturers and of course again these are 40 year machines.

 

If swapping the 74ls08 with a 74f08 doesn't work or swapping out the cpu doesn't either, then the the 02 fixer chip is a new and cheap chip to buy. In the UK it's £14.

 

I've said it before but retro computing is a lot of the time not like modern plug n play computing. There are a lot of different factors involved in xl/XE lines and again remember the Atari lines were manufactured over many years with variations in pcb design, different manufacturers, build quality, and again 40 years have passed. Chips can start to fail, behave strangely or just die at any given moment. 

 

Bottom line is all those providing involved in providing support for the new tech are nearly always helpful and want to get any newly discovered issues fixed. It sometimes just involves patience on the user's part. Good thing is forums like Atari age allows the user's and developer's/supporter's to communicate. 

 

 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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Beeblebrox Quadrunner

Beeblebrox

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, PE1PQX said:

The Side3-070 version just bricked my Side3.... (I think)
Oh, wel....

AFAIK as I've mentioned there is no ver s3loader70. The latest official one is ver 69.

 

What behaviour is the side3 exhibiting that makes you believe it's properly bricked? Is it just not responding now? I don't think you can brick a side3 cart by flashing the firmware alone. Have you tried running in spartados x mode (flip the switch) just out of interest? 

Download ver 69 from here, unzip and save all the contents to the root of the sd card, boot it again into the loader, (if it allows), and run the sloader again. Again the cmd.xex file included in the zip is the cmd you'll be using going forward. 

 

One thing, remind me, do you have u1mb installed? And if so, did you flash the side3 plugin? 

 

Edit:s3loader install instructions :

 

INSTALLATION
============

The SIDE3 loader update (S3LOADER.XEX) should be copied to a FAT partition on your SD card and launched directly from the existing loader. Ensure internal BASIC is disabled in the loader's Options menu. The flashing tool should identify the SIDE3 hardware and report the version number and revision date of the currently installed loader, as well as the same details for the incoming update. If the hardware and the existing loader version are not correctly identified, correct the problems before proceeding.

 

As warned in the install instructions don't flash the jed. If you do that wrongly you can brick the side3.

Edited by Beeblebrox
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Beeblebrox Quadrunner

Beeblebrox

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, PE1PQX said:

@BeeblebroxYes (again!), U1MB is in the machine and the Side3 plugin is installed with latest firmware of FJC. (why you keep asking this? Told this before...).
Also SDX 4.49 is available etc etc...


Will try to re-flash with 0.69 tomorrow.

I am reading this on the fly on my phone in the car on the way home from my Christmas hols (partner driving), whosly also navigating and I am trying to help you! ;) With all due respect there is therefore no need to be shirt/terse with me eh? I am choosing to help you because that's what we do on this forum.

 

You have mentioned ver 70 before where I've mentioned there isn't an official ver 70 of the s3loader firmware. So I am just working through things based on my experience. 

Edited by Beeblebrox
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PE1PQX Star Raider

PE1PQX

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Posted (edited)

I appreciate any help, but it tires me to repeat the same answer every time "Yes, U1MB has Side3 plugin installed" etc. (3 or 4 times in this thread already).
And I cannot see on what device (laptop/computer or smartphone) you read this tread. So my sincere apologies if I sounded cranky...

Will try to (re)flash the Side3 with te latest firmware, and have also a stock 800xl available.
If this does not solve issues with the Side3 (or resurrect it), I very likely dump it in a big box with 'useless stuff to look at in the future (or not)'.

Edit: I dumped the S3 cart for now.... Fed up with it.

Edited by PE1PQX
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Marius Quadrunner

Marius

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PE1PQX said:

I appreciate any help, but it tires me to repeat the same answer every time "Yes, U1MB has Side3 plugin installed" etc. (3 or 4 times in this thread already).
And I cannot see on what device (laptop/computer or smartphone) you read this tread. So my sincere apologies if I sounded cranky...

Will try to (re)flash the Side3 with te latest firmware, and have also a stock 800xl available.
If this does not solve issues with the Side3 (or resurrect it), I very likely dump it in a big box with 'useless stuff to look at in the future (or not)'.

Edit: I dumped the S3 cart for now.... Fed up with it.

This happens. My favorite devices are MyIDE2 and IDE+ 2.0 on Atari 8bit. And I also focus some more on Sio based solutions. Not fast, not versatile, but less sensitive to stability issues. Atari 8bit is lots of fun, and sometimes a device is not turning into our most favorite device. Some people can't stand the MyIDE 2, and I still love it. It is sometimes a very personal choice. If SIDE3 is not good for your blood pressure, leave it alone. I can live very well without it as well, although I must say that the features on paper are really amazing, mainly thanks to the superb firmware written by @flashjazzcat. But hey... focus on your atari 8bit, it is a wonderful machine... and perhaps in the future you might enjoy SIDE3.

Edited by Marius
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