agradeneu Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Because Metal Slug is such a visually impressive game it gets a away with a pretty rough performance: it targets 30FPS but slowdowns all the time, while the scrolling does get jumpy. Its quite all over the place, compared to a smooth game like Contra 3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alucardX Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 9 hours ago, agradeneu said: This is kinda a stretch. The PS1 version is still a stellar game and it would be so on the Jaguar. In fairness I've not played it so I was only commenting on the way it looks when running compared to the Neo Geo. I have heard that it is very fun on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 On 3/28/2022 at 10:05 PM, agradeneu said: Contra is more sophisticated, I agree. The SNES Contra does some cool tricks to achieve impressive setpiece moments that the hardware, on paper, should not be capable of. Still, even the SNES is a far cry away from Jaguar in terms of RAM - it's 128+64KByte, Jaguar has 2000KB. The Sega Genesis Contra Hard Corps goes more over the top with hardware defying effects and set pieces. Out of all the amazing Contras, that’s my favorite 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 On 3/29/2022 at 7:15 AM, agradeneu said: it targets 30FPS but slowdowns all the time, while the scrolling does get jumpy. Even if technically true, it's completely irrelevant to the fun factor present this game offers nonetheless, something you mention yourself in another post. It also does not feel like it when you play the game at all (and MS X is one of my most playes PSX games). The harping about "slowdown" in old games is one of the modern exaggerations (ask any retro experts about R-Type on SNES). That stuff did not reall bother anybody back then, apart from thoroughly bad coding mistakes such as MS 2 - which is the reason for releasing MS X. In fact, slowdowns in arcade games (even on powerful boards) were quite normal and often factored into gameplay - try playing some STGs without it.... Contra series is great but it's nowhere near Metal Slug graphically. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 On 3/29/2022 at 6:15 AM, agradeneu said: Because Metal Slug is such a visually impressive game it gets a away with a pretty rough performance: it targets 30FPS but slowdowns all the time, while the scrolling does get jumpy. Its quite all over the place, compared to a smooth game like Contra 3. That adds to the gameplay in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Bosses even look more impressive when they make the framerate crawl. ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, roots.genoa said: Bosses even look more impressive when they make the framerate crawl. ? When you are not bound to 60FPS locked you can do alot more graphics fidelity. That is important, especially if you want discuss ports etc. As for slowdowns being part of the fun, well lol, it really depends.:-D Old games were not perfect, but Super R Type on the SNES would have been better without severe slowdowns. Super Mario would have been way less fun with slowdowns and half the framerate. Same with Contra 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) On 3/29/2022 at 12:22 AM, sd32 said: Due to its limited RAM, I think the Jag is better suited for a Contra type of game instead of the animation heavy Metal Slug series Instead of massively animating everything, Contra is more about special effect and fast moving sprites, wouldn’t that be less VRAM hogging? And I too prefer Contra over the also awesome Metal Slug… I love both series anyways Even in MS, the smaller sprites have the most animation frames, e.g. the player and the enemy soldiers, while big sprites are combined with animated smaller parts or moving "body parts" to save RAM, e.g for a screen sized boss. For Jaguar, 2MB is still a lot to do for animation heavy games. Of course, leveraging limited RAM is an art of clever design choices. For Contra 3 and early SNES games, the data size of those carts was usually 8 Mbit. So it is not surprising they had to spend animation frames wisely. Edited March 30, 2022 by agradeneu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 4 hours ago, youxia said: Even if technically true, it's completely irrelevant to the fun factor present this game offers nonetheless, something you mention yourself in another post. It also does not feel like it when you play the game at all (and MS X is one of my most playes PSX games). The harping about "slowdown" in old games is one of the modern exaggerations (ask any retro experts about R-Type on SNES). That stuff did not reall bother anybody back then, apart from thoroughly bad coding mistakes such as MS 2 - which is the reason for releasing MS X. In fact, slowdowns in arcade games (even on powerful boards) were quite normal and often factored into gameplay - try playing some STGs without it.... Contra series is great but it's nowhere near Metal Slug graphically. I agree that slowdowns were common and most players do not care much about 30 vs 60 FPS. Digital Foundry retro writes off any classic game that does not run perfect 60FPS or has slowdowns, which is weird. Nevertheless, technically 30 FPS means more potential for graphics fidelity than 60 FPS. Personally, I think Contra 3 is a much more refined game than MS. Its true that MS looks great, but I prefer the precision, controls and level design of Contra 3. The technical trickery with scaling and rotation effects is remarkable. The soundtrack is unreal for a game cart that holds only 8Mbit data. Regarding the hardware, Contra 3 is just as a showcase game as MS is for the NG. Axelay also comes in mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 49 minutes ago, agradeneu said: Personally, I think Contra 3 is a much more refined game than MS. These games come from two different design concepts. Yes, Contra is all about precision and reflexes, and its engine is tailored accordingly, otherwise the game would be unplayable given its hardcore difficulty. Conversely, Metal Slug has more sedate, easier gameplay but also offers bombastic graphics and humour. I love both, but if I had to choose I'd stick with MS because I'm not that good at twitch games. Sure, they are both showcase games, but NG was an arcade hardware and SNES a home console, and that shows. One might wonder what a Contra game for NeoGeo would look like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 13 minutes ago, youxia said: These games come from two different design concepts. Yes, Contra is all about precision and reflexes, and its engine is tailored accordingly, otherwise the game would be unplayable given its hardcore difficulty. Conversely, Metal Slug has more sedate, easier gameplay but also offers bombastic graphics and humour. I love both, but if I had to choose I'd stick with MS because I'm not that good at twitch games. Sure, they are both showcase games, but NG was an arcade hardware and SNES a home console, and that shows. One might wonder what a Contra game for NeoGeo would look like... Cyber Lip? BTW they are all run 'n gun games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I know one Neo Geo game by Data East that seems doable on the Jaguar: Ghost Lop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Oh wait, I can say that Magical Drop 2 & 3 can be ported to the Jaguar with few, if any compromises. The reason I went with Ghost Lop is the fact that it was never officially released. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 17 hours ago, SlidellMan said: Oh wait, I can say that Magical Drop 2 & 3 can be ported to the Jaguar with few, if any compromises. The reason I went with Ghost Lop is the fact that it was never officially released. If the SNES can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostdragon Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 3/27/2022 at 7:46 PM, phoboz said: There are some very nice visuals here, what is the copyright status? Could these be used in a homebrew game without legal issues? As promised, update from Frank Gasking, GTW: John got back to me regarding Deathwatch. He isn't sure, but has said he'll ask Stuart Green and will let me know. Might be a while until we get a definitive answer, as John's pretty slammed at work at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoGamer Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) On 3/28/2022 at 11:57 AM, Punisher5.0 said: To give an example of what it takes to run Metal Slug on the PSX: Im sure the Jaguar could handle the simpler games like Magician Lord but I think most games are too far of a reach. Don’t forget, the PS1 was developed with 3D games in mind. The console’s video ram is quite low (2mb if my aging mind serves me), which led to those Neo-Geo ports having their art assets reduced in size and multiple frames of animation being cut from the final releases. I remember reading mostly complaints in magazines like Gamefan, where the journalists would harp on the system due to its 2D limitations. Developer Capcom did a fine job porting their fighters to PSOne, but when you compared those games against their Sega Saturn counterparts with the 4meg RAM expansion, it was literally like night and day. Edited April 29, 2022 by ColecoGamer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 PSX had 2mb ram and 1mb vram. The Jag would kill it in 2D. Teabag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 29 minutes ago, JagChris said: PSX had 2mb ram and 1mb vram. The Jag would kill it in 2D. Teabag. So thats 1mb more *dedicated* ram (as opposed to the Jags unified).. plus a faster clock speed..... plus a RISC cpu.... You know 2+1 = 3, and 3 is bigger than 2, right? 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: So thats 1mb more *dedicated* ram (as opposed to the Jags unified).. plus a faster clock speed..... plus a RISC cpu.... You know 2+1 = 3, and 3 is bigger than 2, right? Wow that's a puzzle. I'll figure that out right after I figure out where Native is 'literally tearing the screen apart' or gpu in main is a massive performance hit and just use the 68k despite all the evidence that that's all wrong. Damn our lying eyes and all that. Fumes indeed but I think they're blowing in the other direction. Meanwhile you have won the ignore award. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Fantastic! Now you won't reply when you've been corrected! AWESOME. (For any newcomers, just read his signature.... rose tinted glasses indeed!) Quote Wow that's a puzzle. I'll figure that out right after I figure out where Native is 'literally tearing the screen apart' or gpu in main is a massive performance hit and just use the 68k despite all the evidence that that's all wrong. Damn our lying eyes and all that. Native does tear the screen apart, he's been show video evidence of it. And he's only got knowledge of one type of 'massive hit' - buy hey, who ya gonna believe, someone with releases under their belt, or a guy with bollocks in his signature? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 1 hour ago, CyranoJ said: Fantastic! Now you won't reply when you've been corrected! AWESOME. The "Hide" function on here only works as well as the inability of others to not quote the target user's posts. And besides, he's been spouting his nonsense for how many years now? You can't reverse brain damage. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sauron said: The "Hide" function on here only works as well as the inability of others to not quote the target user's posts. And besides, he's been spouting his nonsense for how many years now? You can't reverse brain damage. Yeah I only see him now when someone quotes him. I like that CJ said PSX has an risc cpu. Although the Jag has two. But he said cpu so for him the equivalent is the 68k. Of course. I don't mind being corrected. I'll admit when I'm wrong. Unlike others who get proven wrong and then double down on it. And dare us not to believe our lying eyes. And then the followers even in the face of repeated evidence that their heroes are blowing smoke up their ass still play step'n fetch it for them. Edited April 29, 2022 by JagChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 29 minutes ago, JagChris said: I like that CJ said PSX has an risc cpu. Although the Jag has two. But he said cpu so for him the equivalent is the 68k. Of course. JagChris knows all my games only use the 68000... Because he's clueless, biased, and afraid to put anything he's read to good use. No better than captain numberwang. From the RAPTOR documentation (Which all my games post Downfall use)... ... which I've given freely for people to use... Good job his "lying eyes" don't lie, and can see the code of the thing generating the image on the screen...... err...... What have you accomplished over the last decade, JC? Anything? No, go on, I'll wait. /smfh - over a decade of his nonsense 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sd32 Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) I don’t understand we’re this whole “PS1 was a weak 2d machine” came from The system can throw around an obscene amount of sprites: 4000 8x8. The only thing holding it back compared to contemporary arcades is VRAM In terms sprite pushing, it beats even the Saturn, Capcom contemporary arcade hardware and maybe even Neo Geo But like Neo Geo and Jaguar, it has to build background layers out of sprites… that’s were the Saturn catches up to it and beats it… due to the monster VDP2 background layers capabilities But PS1 being weak and the Jaguar “teabagging” it at 2d? I have seen proof of that not being the case: Capcom vs SNK, Vampire Savior, In the Hunt, SF Alpha 3, Guilty Gear, Project X2, Harmful Park, Star Ocean 2, Gundam Battle Master, Legend of Mana, Symphony if the Night, Rayman, Mega Man X4, Twin Bee Yahoo, Parodius Daa, Abe’s Exodus, Real Bout Special, Don Pachi, Strikers 1942, etc Tons of impressive 2d games… just lacked a bit more RAM for those arcade conversions, like every other home console Edited April 29, 2022 by sd32 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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