What's the most innovative gaming feature introduced on the Atari Jaguar?

[agradeneu]

1 minute ago, youxia said:

Some of the things on this list are fair, but others are really stretching it. I mean, if you allow things like "first showing of Rayman" then the bigger consoles would have literally hundreds of entries, rendering such exercises pointless.

Rayman is a premier platform franchise so its not something to ignore. 

Yes, other systems have much more to offer, but that is not the topic here and it does not really matter for the Jaguar.

The point of the thread might not be to exchange petty arguments but rather appreciate what the Jag brought to the table. 

[agradeneu]

9 minutes ago, CD-i said:

I think first 3D Polygon mech game on a console goes to Vortex on SNES which was released 3 months before iron soldier.

Maybe, but Iron Soldier is more like a Mechwarrior/ first person action simulation, Vortex is something different (and not really good tbh).

 

Like I said: 

For innovation, it does not matter if it was *technically the first* and in the most vague sense possible,  rather how it was used to create unique gaming expierence.

 

There was simply not anything like IS before on console, the closest thing to PC MW were the Mechwarrior games on MD and SNES. But they were not 3D but sprite based if I remember correctly.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by agradeneu

[youxia]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

The point of the thread might not be to exchange petty arguments but rather appreciate what the Jag brought to the table. 

It is a good point, but you're not going to achieve it by padding it with heavily stretched arguments - it's actually counterproductive.

[Jag64]

36 minutes ago, youxia said:

It is a good point, but you're not going to achieve it by padding it with heavily stretched arguments - it's actually counterproductive.

The Jaguar definitely brought some innovations to the table. We can't all just be clinging to some part of our youth or trying to cover up some form of buyer's remorse nearly 30 years later .... right. ... ... RIGHT!?!? Oh Gawd.

[zzip]

First console to growl at you when you turned it on?

[agradeneu]

Might be worth noting that in most cases, innovation is rather evolutionary then radical or revolutionary.

 

 

 

 

 

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

It is a good point, but you're not going to achieve it by padding it with heavily stretched arguments - it's actually counterproductive.

You might disagree, but policing the thread like you do is the very definiton of being counterproductive. 

[RollOut]

So this might not be a popular opinion, but I don't find the Jaguar to be a very "innovative" console, in the sense that I don't think it pioneered many features that would change the console industry. Instead, I think the Jaguar is more similar to the consoles that preceded it than the consoles that would follow it. Now as someone who loves older style games, I happen to love that about the Jag (I'm a recent owner, so no 30 years of buyers remorse for me). 

[RollOut]

16 minutes ago, zzip said:

First console to growl at you when you turned it on?

No sooner do I post that I don't think the Jag is innovative, than I see you already proved me wrong. The Jag roar is revolutionary. Check mate to you.

[Wilco]

The Jaguar CD allowed for games to be up to 747 MB in size, a bit larger than the standard.

[agradeneu]

Pretty sure many bought the Jaguar (or other new systems) to get something different than what you expect from the popular systems like GN and SNES.

 

The Jaguar and some of it's game looked unique and innovative and to some extent, it really was. Although the potential was never realized.

 

However, homebrews can now leverage some of its potential.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Jag64]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

First console to growl at you when you turned it on?

A trend that carried over to the Dreamcast's (GD Rom), some earlier Xbox 360s (right before red-ringing), and definitely every PS3 fat I own. But the Jag was the first to do it digitally.

 

Point, Atari.

[Jag64]

55 minutes ago, Wilco said:

The Jaguar CD allowed for games to be up to 747 MB in size, a bit larger than the standard.

Credit them Tramiel boys. They always made sure to give developers a little more space than other platform manufa .... ???

 

Seriously, I did not know this. Granted, I know little about CDs beyond Sony and Philips developing it, and the former's president (or someone high up) wanting 70 minutes on a disc for a classical piece. What's the dealio with the extra 47 megaroos?

 

***Whoops. Was going to try and delete to multi-quote. No beuno!

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jag64

[Wilco]

47 minutes ago, Jag64 said:

What's the dealio with the extra 47 megaroos?

 

I don’t know why it was done exactly, but I do know that because of it there is barely any error correction on the disc. I got the info from the jag CD dev manual, it explains it better than I ever could. 
 

06 - Jaguar CD-ROM.pdf

[ZylonBane]

6 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Its a fair list, what you would actually do with the SNES as well, e.g. first mode 7 game, rotating backgrounds, shoulder buttons  etc.

You do realize that "mode 7" isn't a general graphics rendering technique, yes? It's literally an operating mode of the SNES's custom graphics chip. So uh yes, a technically correct statement, but about as meaningful as "The Atari Jaguar was the first console to be named the Atari Jaguar."

[agradeneu]

35 minutes ago, ZylonBane said:

You do realize that "mode 7" isn't a general graphics rendering technique, yes? It's literally an operating mode of the SNES's custom graphics chip. So uh yes, a technically correct statement, but about as meaningful as "The Atari Jaguar was the first console to be named the Atari Jaguar."

Yes it is, and you can actually see it on the screen, awesome 3D effects for games like F-Zero or Mario Kart. Which makes it much more meaningful than your last sentence suggests.

So Mode 7 is merely a technical term for something that creates unique graphical effects.  

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by agradeneu

[+Stephen]

It isn't.  In Atari BASIC I can issue a GRAPHICS 8 call.  Another computer displaying 320*192 monochrome is not called GRAPHICS 8.  That's just silly.

[agradeneu]

3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It isn't.  In Atari BASIC I can issue a GRAPHICS 8 call.  Another computer displaying 320*192 monochrome is not called GRAPHICS 8.  That's just silly.

Hm?

[+Stephen]

4 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It isn't.  In Atari BASIC I can issue a GRAPHICS 8 call.  Another computer displaying 320*192 monochrome is not called GRAPHICS 8.  That's just silly.

Hm?

"mode 7" is not a generalized term like Gouraud shading, or texture mapping.  It is a specific hardware mode / rendering technique provided by the SNES.  No different than the Atari 8-bit computer's built in display modes.

 

Pedantic really, and omg - did I just agree with a zylon bane post?!?

[+Sauron]

Just now, Stephen said:

"mode 7" is not a generalized term like Gouraud shading, or texture mapping.  It is a specific hardware mode / rendering technique provided by the SNES.  No different than the Atari 8-bit computer's built in display modes.

You're right, of course, but that's not telling the whole story. "Mode 7" has been bandied about to refer to similar background scaling effects ever since, so nowadays it's pretty much synonymous for "full screen background scaling" for those who are less technical.

[agradeneu]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

"mode 7" is not a generalized term like Gouraud shading, or texture mapping.  It is a specific hardware mode / rendering technique provided by the SNES.  No different than the Atari 8-bit computer's built in display modes.

 

Whats your point exactly? I know it's an hardware mode. But its more interesting what it actually does.  

 

Can you do rotation/scaling effects with Ataris 8 bit built in display modes?  

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_7

 

Those effects were quite impressive and new for an 1991 home console and that is why I was mentioning it for innovation.

 

Usually, magazines and audiences referred to those effects as "Mode7". You dont need the extact technical definition as it's about the capabilities of graphics effects that were unique to the SNES.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

You're right, of course, but that's not telling the whole story. "Mode 7" has been bandied about to refer to similar background scaling effects ever since, so nowadays it's pretty much synonymous for "full screen background scaling" for those who are less technical.

It's not contradicting what I meant. Its a synonym for scaling and rotating background graphics and fauxed 3d graphics like in F Zero.

[+Sauron]

2 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

It's not contradicting what I meant. Its a synonym for scaling and rotating background graphics and fauxed 3d graphics like in F Zero.

Yes, that's exactly what I was explaining.

[agradeneu]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yes, that's exactly what I was explaining.

Well, and I was just thinking it was somewhat innovative for it's time. Sorry for waking up the forum police. ?️‍♂️

 

Usually, when you say "Mode7" most gamers with some history know what is meant. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by agradeneu

[+Sauron]

4 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Well, and I was just thinking it was somewhat innovative for it's time. Sorry for waking up the forum police. ?️‍♂️

 

Usually, when you say "Mode7" most gamers with some history know what is meant. 

Of course, but some others here want to be pedantic about it and say "but, but, it's just a graphics mode for the SNES!". But being pedantic is par for the course when it comes to some members of this forum. Including myself (sigh). It's probably the #1 cause of discussions getting sidetracked.