andylama Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I've found that there are a TON of foreign platformers that all have serious playability issues. I sincerely hope this doesn't start a flamefest, BUT: In my limited observation, it seems like lots of European titles look/sound very polished, but playability/game-concept sucked...a total afterthought. I had an Amiga for a while in the late 80s, and Psygnosis had a buncha titles that all looked and sounded really impressive...and were nearly unplayable for one or more reasons. Pfft! Of course, this is only my opinion...I could be totally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 forbidden forrest... i guess everything by cosmi??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Green Beret -- hehehe! I know the guy who put that together -- ghastly bit of programming, awful grafix, simply staggered me how bad it was! As so much European software was budget ($3 or $4) and was developed for beer money -- lots of it is only marginally playable IMHO.... As for full priced rush jobs/disappointments: Arkanoid, terribly jerky ball movement spoiled the play and lack of the cool full screen art or logos spoiled the look... Centipede was terrible, so herky jerky and drab. Anything that used Mode 8 as an Apple conversion -- especially when I had seen Bandits donw so well -- everything in one color (Ultima etc) really left me feeling that I was getting cheap ports!!! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Maybe I'm too hard on Archon. I just remember how disappointed in the A8 version I felt when I saw it on the 64. Guess it's just a matter of taste. On the other hand' date=' I much preferred A8 MULE!! [/quote'] Archon was one of the games that really din't need better sound and graphics. I have Archon Ultra for the PC and that game really has better graphics and sound but the game was really not more fun... Emkay: When ZylonBane insults you, please ignore it and don't restate all your justifications for how you feel. Do I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I've found that there are a TON of foreign platformers that all have serious playability issues. I sincerely hope this doesn't start a flamefest' date=' BUT: In my limited observation, it seems like lots of European titles look/sound very polished, but playability/game-concept sucked...a total afterthought. I had an Amiga for a while in the late 80s, and Psygnosis had a buncha titles that all looked and sounded really impressive...and were nearly unplayable for one or more reasons. Pfft! Of course, this is only my opinion...I could be totally wrong.[/quote'] Although I'd say that most of the best platformers -- such as The Terminator, Jurassic Park 2, and even Tower Toppler -- available for the 8-bits have European origins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Green Beret -- hehehe! I know the guy who put that together -- ghastly bit of programming' date=' awful grafix, simply staggered me how bad it was! [/quote'] Yep. That one was a stinker. Centipede was terrible, so herky jerky and drab. The 5200 version was nice looking in my opinion. Anything that used Mode 8 as an Apple conversion -- especially when I had seen Bandits donw so well -- everything in one color (Ultima etc) really left me feeling that I was getting cheap ports!!! sTeVE Most of those relied on NTSC artifact colors. On my old 800, Ultima looked fairly decent, with green trees and blue water. Since the pixel clock isn't the same as the color clock on PAL machines, the trick didn't work. Most Apple ports were lousy, though. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Archon was one of the games that really din't need better sound and graphics. I have Archon Ultra for the PC and that game really has better graphics and sound but the game was really not more fun... I saw a few nice additions in C64 Archon and assumed the A8 version had gotten short-changed. I still prefer the C64 music, outlined characters & wider playfield. The A8 version plays well, though. I have Archon Ultra as well. I remember that they disabled sound support for the ProAudio Spectrum card after they couldn't get a development sample from the company. Later they offered a patch to re-enable it. Emkay, do you know of any examples of the Mental Age bass in RMT? -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 In my limited observation' date=' it seems like lots of European titles look/sound very polished, but playability/game-concept sucked...a total afterthought. I had an Amiga for a while in the late 80s, and Psygnosis had a buncha titles that all looked and sounded really impressive...and were nearly unplayable for one or more reasons. Pfft! [/quote'] This kind of argument allways comes in when talking about graphics and sound from old games. In fact ... better graphics and sound are no guarantors for bad playability. Looking at Turrican 2 (an european game) it has the best graphics, sound and playability on the AMIGA and on the C64 together... On the other hand... Games with great graphics and sound are cult even if they have no playability (Last ninja series). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled_Pink Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 OTOH' date=' what about games that look and/or sound good, but the playability is bad? Anyone?[/quote'] The only one that really sticks in my mind is Koronis Rift. Always found that game to bit a right pain to play. But don't worry, ppl. I don't think the A8 was blessed with any truly awful games, or at any rate any truly awful games that became successful - unlike the ST, which has the one game that fits into the above quoted category beautifully in the form of 'Virus' by David Braben. Bought it on the strength of one review where the reviewer was obviously a bit of a demo freak in that he obviously preferred to enjoy the pretty graphics and game engine, and ignored the gameplay itself. When I started playing it I felt completely conned (should have read other reviews which slated it) and found it unbelievably unplayable. Thankfully I can't recall such a turkey coming out on the A8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylama Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 better graphics and sound are no guarantors for bad playability. Of course! Never meant to imply THAT' date=' even remotely. ...although, having said that, it sure seemed that way in Amiga's heyday. There was a lot of garbage out there. Games with great graphics and sound are cult even if they have no playability (Last ninja series). I agree with this also. Some crappy games have good "demo value" even if they fail as games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Some of the Polish games are really mediocre. Wloczykij has very good graphics but questionable playability. Hawkmoon is very weak. Graphically' date=' both of the above are using graphics pulled from C64 games; [b']Wloczykij[/b] has backgrounds from Creatures and a lead sprite from one of the Dizzy games whilst Hawkmoon uses the lead sprite from Hawkeye and backgrounds from Stormlord. I've found that there are a TON of foreign platformers that all have serious playability issues. Platformers are quite hard to balance' date=' a lot of the ones i've played (like the two above or [b']Tusker[/b] and Technus for example) aren't balanced well. The graphics in these cases come from other sources (Flimbo's Quest and Turrican respectively) so they look good whilst the game engine itself leaves a bit to be desired. i'm not sure why this is, but the only machine immune to "non commercial crap platform game" syndrome seems to be the Spectrum, since Egghead 3 is pretty cool...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hey TMR, How close is A8 Reaxion to release? -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 On the other hand... Games with great graphics and sound are cult even if they have no playability (Last ninja series). i think this whole topic is a very difficult call' date=' playability is very subjective and what appeals to one person is going to make another want to run away screaming. i like the aforementioned [b']Last V8[/b] and find it pretty playable, for example, but at the same time i can see it's not the easiest game to play and some people won't like it for that reason. Something like the Last Ninja series get the following they have because a lot of people enjoy them, i don't personally but i know that not everyone agrees with me... =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 How close is A8 Reaxion to release? Game core is classed as 99% complete (in that i've not noticed any major bugs but until the Cosine posse put it through it's paces i'm not declaring it done) and the titles page is running to the point where it can acknowledge a highscore and shuffle the table accordingly. The only real jobs to do now are the highscore entry system and the completion screen, then any debugging that turns up. Sound wise, Sack's sent a preview of the ingame tune over and is working on the rest when he gets the time, the music is being converted from the original game rather than the extended mix. i'm not making any estimations as to when it'll be done because there are too many factors, but work is continuing - i'm just involved in the donkey work that produces no visual effect so it seems to crawl! =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hey TMR' date=' How close is A8 Reaxion to release? -Bry[/quote'] I would say at 90% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hey TMR' date=' How close is A8 Reaxion to release? -Bry[/quote'] I would say at 90% You mean someone actually reads my website?! =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Out of all the 8-bit games I have (6), I'd say that yes, QIX stinks. Pole Position is OK. Defender is fine, as is Pac Man and Galaxian. the 8-bit plays a MEAN game of Missle Command though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 I guess no one knows anything about the bass in Mental Age. I looked at the Pokey regs in Atari800Win, and all I can tell is they're using 16-bit frequency in voices 3 & 4. Voices 1 & 2 are pure tone. Voice 3 is set to forced output (so maybe this wonderful Pokey sound that no one else is using is a digi voice?) -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Out of all the 8-bit games I have (6)' date=' I'd say that yes, QIX stinks. Pole Position is OK. Defender is fine, as is Pac Man and Galaxian. the 8-bit plays a MEAN game of Missle Command though. [/quote'] You can pelt me with rotten eggs, but I actually like the 8-bit version of Qix for its sound effects. Doesn't the 5200 version also feature a smaller playing field (e.g. is harder)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 guys, i'll gonna ask our taquart guys reg. mental age, maybe they know who has done the music and in which tool... as it is a polish one... hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hey TMR' date=' How close is A8 Reaxion to release? -Bry[/quote'] I would say at 90% You mean someone actually reads my website?! =-) Yeah... I am allways interested in the progress of cool 8-bit software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 ok. posted as well here http://atariarea.histeria.pl/forum/viewtop...p?p=11851#11851 (i do not understand any word there...luckily the design of the forum looks similiar... do not know why.... ) hve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmutzpuppe Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 ... i like the aforementioned Last V8 and find it pretty playable' date=' for example[/quote'] I like the C64 Version too, but have you seen the A8 Version? Real crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 ok. posted as well here http://atariarea.histeria.pl/forum/viewtop...p?p=11851#11851 (i do not understand any word there...luckily the design of the forum looks similiar... do not know why.... ) hve According to the game, the music is by Joe Ripper. Is that a real name? -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Centipede and Qix on the 800 were stinkers Last V8 sucked on the A8 also. I dont know anyone that finished that on the A8 (you almost have to cheat to win). The C64 was more balanced. Pole Position on the A8 is one of the best 8bit conversions IMHO. I dont complain about that one too much Galaxian on the 800 sucked real bad - Audio effects were worse than scratching a chalk board - and talk about LAZY, the Command ships dont even have their own shapes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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