Legit GleyLancer ROM board?

[DrBizz]

Hi everyone. I came up on a strange prototype/development cart that apparently had the EPROM dev board removed and has been replaced with what appears to be a retail "GleyLancer" board. I have looked for quite a while and have not been able to find another image that conclusively shows a retail GleyLancer PCB/ROM board. I have actually dumped this ROM and compared it with WinHex and it is identical to the retail ROM I was able to find and download. There are many odd things about this whole situation. I ended up with several demo, prototype and development carts in the same haul (more on that later) but by no means did I pay big bucks on eBay for a retail GleyLancer or think that this could be a fake repro, and every other board in the group is in fact a legit development Genesis board. It seems at some point someone may have put this in to play the game in a retail North American Genesis, since it was only released in Japan for the Mega Drive this possibility makes sense. What confuses me is that the date 1990 on the board is two full years before GleyLancer's release, so is it possible or common for boards that old to be used for games when they are manufactured? There is also the possibility that this cart and board could have been a sample sent here to California of the game before it was released, even though the ROM is finished. There are other games in this lot that were samples, both finished retail and beta ROMS.

 

Here are the two pics of it. Does anyone out there have a legit picture of a GleyLancer PCB I can compare it to?

 

What do you guys think? Real board? Someone put a fake repro board in here and this is what they look like?

 

Thanks!

Edited April 19, 2022 by DrBizz

[Steven Pendleton]

The PCB looks legit to me. Not sure about the ROM chip. Here is another 1990 PCB of a 1992 game: Mega-Lo-Mania. This seems to be the exact same PCB model, as well.

 

http://www.mybrillgamesite.com/projects/inside-sega-megadrive-carts.php

 

Finding a picture of a Gleylancer PCB and ROM chip will likely be difficult, as I don't think many are willing to intentionally damage a $400 game to open it, as you can't open standard Japanese MD carts without murdering the sticker on the back.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[DragonGrafx-16]

The ROM could have been transplanted from another one. Anyway, I would say this is a score. Enjoy the game.

[DrBizz]

2 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

The PCB looks legit to me. Not sure about the ROM chip. Here is another 1990 PCB of a 1992 game: Mega-Lo-Mania. This seems to be the exact same PCB model, as well.

 

http://www.mybrillgamesite.com/projects/inside-sega-megadrive-carts.php

 

Finding a picture of a Gleylancer PCB and ROM chip will likely be difficult, as I don't think many are willing to intentionally damage a $400 game to open it, as you can't open standard Japanese MD carts without murdering the sticker on the back.

Hi Steven, thank you so much for the response! Holy smokes, I had no idea this game was that valuable, or that a Japanese MD game can't be removed without damaging the label. That explains why it was so hard for me to find a picture of the PCB and ROM chip. Very interesting with this cart, I don't understand how someone in California could end up with a Japanese MD game and destroy the case to remove it and play it in a Genesis, let alone remove a prototype dev board as a housing for it. Accidental destruction leading to that seems equally unlikely.

[DrBizz]

2 hours ago, DragonGrafx-16 said:

The ROM could have been transplanted from another one. Anyway, I would say this is a score. Enjoy the game.

Good point, I thought about that too. I took more pictures and the ROM chip sure as hell seems to be a factory installation, solder joints look perfect and somebody swapping a ROM board by hand looks impossible. It's a killer game! Hard but fun, at least on easy I can play for a while without losing can't say the same about all shooters haha. Do you think there is any way that a retail ROM could be reprogrammed? Impossible?

[Steven Pendleton]

2 minutes ago, DrBizz said:

Hi Steven, thank you so much for the response! Holy smokes, I had no idea this game was that valuable, or that a Japanese MD game can't be removed without damaging the label. That explains why it was so hard for me to find a picture of the PCB and ROM chip. Very interesting with this cart, I don't understand how someone in California could end up with a Japanese MD game and destroy the case to remove it and play it in a Genesis, let alone remove a prototype dev board as a housing for it. Accidental destruction leading to that seems equally unlikely.

Gleylancer is considered to be one of the top-tier Mega Drive shooters due to its quality, but they didn't make a lot of copies of it, so it's a 40000 yen game now, and that's the price in Japan, not the insane ebay ripoff price. I find it very strange that someone would go through the trouble of putting a Gleylancer PCB inside a US cart shell just to get it to fit in a Genesis when there are other, easier ways to do it, like filing the cart slot down a little bit to get the carts to fit, or using a 32X for a great non-destructive way to do it.

[DrBizz]

30 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Gleylancer is considered to be one of the top-tier Mega Drive shooters due to its quality, but they didn't make a lot of copies of it, so it's a 40000 yen game now, and that's the price in Japan, not the insane ebay ripoff price. I find it very strange that someone would go through the trouble of putting a Gleylancer PCB inside a US cart shell just to get it to fit in a Genesis when there are other, easier ways to do it, like filing the cart slot down a little bit to get the carts to fit, or using a 32X for a great non-destructive way to do it.

Wow, yeah I can see why. It's a hell of a game I enjoy it quite a bit. The night I got this cart I played it for a while. There is a lot of mystery still with this, if somebody somehow faked this PCB and ROM chip I have no clue why they would do it and how it could be such a perfect fake. Assuming it's original it is baffling to me how it ended up in the situation I found it. I think there is a reasonable chance it got sent to someone high up in a game development company here who had authority, with the intent to evaluate it for a potential US release. That would be a cool story but I guess I just will never know. Or maybe it was a "gift" from one developer to another.

[DrBizz]

I did some research and I have found a couple very similar ROM chips in other Genesis carts. If this game is a fake, it's a stunningly perfect job, only to be put into an old dev cart casing? Doesn't make sense.

[Steven Pendleton]

12 minutes ago, DrBizz said:

Wow, yeah I can see why. It's a hell of a game I enjoy it quite a bit. The night I got this cart I played it for a while. There is a lot of mystery still with this, if somebody somehow faked this PCB and ROM chip I have no clue why they would do it and how it could be such a perfect fake. Assuming it's original it is baffling to me how it ended up in the situation I found it. I think there is a reasonable chance it got sent to someone high up in a game development company here who had authority, with the intent to evaluate it for a potential US release. That would be a cool story but I guess I just will never know. Or maybe it was a "gift" from one developer to another.

It's possible. Masaya did release at least one game in the USA that I am aware of: Langrisser.

[Tanooki]

There's no way that's a fake looking at it.  There's a story here, problem is good luck figuring out what that story is and how it came to be other than the end result you very very luckily had fall into your hands.  It's bizarre because you have to wonder was this as simple as maybe thinking of a US release and just slapping it into a random though prototype case?  Was it a gift as stated and slapped in there all the same on the end result.  Could this be someone who didn't want to carve up their nice system shell and just did it as a one off who happened to work there at the time having imported the game?  Either way Gleylancer isn't cheap, it's a few hundred dollar game and while you may not have the original shell and dippy sticker, you got what counts, the playable parts.   I got a 218in1 off aliexpress in the mail recently and it's on there among other gems of pocket pain(battle mania 2 for one) and I tried it a bit, it's pretty nice to say the least.

[Steven Pendleton]

2 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

There's no way that's a fake looking at it.  There's a story here, problem is good luck figuring out what that story is and how it came to be other than the end result you very very luckily had fall into your hands.  It's bizarre because you have to wonder was this as simple as maybe thinking of a US release and just slapping it into a random though prototype case?  Was it a gift as stated and slapped in there all the same on the end result.  Could this be someone who didn't want to carve up their nice system shell and just did it as a one off who happened to work there at the time having imported the game?  Either way Gleylancer isn't cheap, it's a few hundred dollar game and while you may not have the original shell and dippy sticker, you got what counts, the playable parts.   I got a 218in1 off aliexpress in the mail recently and it's on there among other gems of pocket pain(battle mania 2 for one) and I tried it a bit, it's pretty nice to say the least.

Yeah, this is weird no matter how you look at it. Might be difficult to impossible to ever figure it out, but it does look like authentic components to me.

 

The game itself is quite good, and it has both one of the best soundtracks on the system and the most insane parallax scrolling I have ever seen right there on stage 1. I'll never forget the day I put my copy into my Mega Sg for the first time knowing basically nothing about the game and saw that ridiculous parallax scrolling.

[Tanooki]

1 minute ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, this is weird no matter how you look at it. Might be difficult to impossible to ever figure it out, but it does look like authentic components to me.

 

The game itself is quite good, and it has both one of the best soundtracks on the system and the most insane parallax scrolling I have ever seen right there on stage 1. I'll never forget the day I put my copy into my Mega Sg for the first time knowing basically nothing about the game and saw that ridiculous parallax scrolling.

Exactly (both parts)

 

That's what caught my interest, they moving level of layers in that scrolling you don't typically see that much of it going on at differing rates as it really created an odd sense of depth instead of just of the usual ooooh layers.  And the music felt more clean and uncommon to the usual Genesis/MD tinny flair to the stuff which is a nice change.  Your memory matches what I was thinking the other day when I pulled it up on that list.  I'd heard of people going goo goo over it so when I saw the game I decided to see what the deal was.

[Steven Pendleton]

18 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Exactly (both parts)

 

That's what caught my interest, they moving level of layers in that scrolling you don't typically see that much of it going on at differing rates as it really created an odd sense of depth instead of just of the usual ooooh layers.  And the music felt more clean and uncommon to the usual Genesis/MD tinny flair to the stuff which is a nice change.  Your memory matches what I was thinking the other day when I pulled it up on that list.  I'd heard of people going goo goo over it so when I saw the game I decided to see what the deal was.

The system sounds like garbage when used improperly, but when used properly, the YM2612 sounds incredible. Gleylancer uses the Cube sound driver, which was developed at Cube (obviously) by Iwadare Noriyuki. This sound driver was used in Gleylancer, Zero Wing, Langrisser, and Langrisser II, all of which Iwadare himself did the music for, although I think Gleylancer had a few other composers as well. Cube is also credited in the special thanks in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so it's possible they helped with the sound, but I'd have to check. These games all have something in common: they have some of the best soundtracks on the system. Love that Cube sound driver. Now if you want to hear some insane music come out of your Genesis or Mega Drive, go play Slap Fight MD's special mode or Kuuga/Vapor Trail.

 

As for the parallax, it took me a while to figure out how they did it, but it looks to me like they used vertical interrupts to create a ridiculous amount of layers. They did a damn fine job of it, and the entire game is one of the best examples of basically flawless color use on the system. They used the same trick that Sonic uses to change the color palette when you go underwater in stage 2, as well, and you can see the CRAM dots there on the water, just like in Sonic. Not a whole lot of slowdown or sprite flicker, either. Thunder Force IV makes the system look like it's about to die when you fight the stage 2 miniboss (and they completely removed all slowdown from the game entirely on the awesome Saturn version), but Gleylancer doesn't have a whole lot of slowdown. It's still there, like on the stage 1 boss, but it mostly is smooth.

 

They did a great job on the game, and I think the only real problem with it is that it's a bit too easy even on hard, and I don't really think that's much of a bad thing. There is a mania difficulty setting, but...

[DrBizz]

3 hours ago, Tanooki said:

There's no way that's a fake looking at it.  There's a story here, problem is good luck figuring out what that story is and how it came to be other than the end result you very very luckily had fall into your hands.  It's bizarre because you have to wonder was this as simple as maybe thinking of a US release and just slapping it into a random though prototype case?  Was it a gift as stated and slapped in there all the same on the end result.  Could this be someone who didn't want to carve up their nice system shell and just did it as a one off who happened to work there at the time having imported the game?  Either way Gleylancer isn't cheap, it's a few hundred dollar game and while you may not have the original shell and dippy sticker, you got what counts, the playable parts.   I got a 218in1 off aliexpress in the mail recently and it's on there among other gems of pocket pain(battle mania 2 for one) and I tried it a bit, it's pretty nice to say the least.

It's good to hear that it isn't an obvious fake, I agree at this point I just don't see how or why this isn't legit. The story of how I ended up with this and SIX other actual prototype/dev carts just simply isn't believable, lucky is an understatement. Like I mentioned more on that later as I am dumping the games and doing research. I wish I knew the conclusive story with this game, but there is decent traction for the potential that it was an industry insider demo sent to the same higher up that had all these demo/prototype/dev carts. Some are development carts that have the actual retail ROM on them, some are early builds of retail releases, a couple are unreleased games or builds, and there's a retail Gleylancer just thrown in there haha. It fits the situation, an incredible story indeed.

Edited April 20, 2022 by DrBizz

[DrBizz]

Here's the game running in my Model 1, just for fun and to confirm the whole situation. I really appreciate the responsive nature here guys, thanks.

[Tanooki]

Stunning, if it can be shared I'd love to know the details about who ended up with this stuff, how they perhaps got it, and then the end game of it falling with sheer dumb luck into your hands.  Also curious on a second level what the mystery games that aren't released are and how far along.  You might have something there, not just to lord over people as some clowns will do, but if they're finished or nearly so, entities like Piko Interactive who partners with the very talented and credible Shiryu could finish the game, retail it on various formats, and you could see a benefit out of it if it can be contractually cleared up that is.

[Tanooki]

3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

The system sounds like garbage when used improperly, but when used properly, the YM2612 sounds incredible. Gleylancer uses the Cube sound driver, which was developed at Cube (obviously) by Iwadare Noriyuki. This sound driver was used in Gleylancer, Zero Wing, Langrisser, and Langrisser II, all of which Iwadare himself did the music for, although I think Gleylancer had a few other composers as well. Cube is also credited in the special thanks in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so it's possible they helped with the sound, but I'd have to check. These games all have something in common: they have some of the best soundtracks on the system. Love that Cube sound driver. Now if you want to hear some insane music come out of your Genesis or Mega Drive, go play Slap Fight MD's special mode or Kuuga/Vapor Trail.

 

As for the parallax, it took me a while to figure out how they did it, but it looks to me like they used vertical interrupts to create a ridiculous amount of layers. They did a damn fine job of it, and the entire game is one of the best examples of basically flawless color use on the system. They used the same trick that Sonic uses to change the color palette when you go underwater in stage 2, as well, and you can see the CRAM dots there on the water, just like in Sonic. Not a whole lot of slowdown or sprite flicker, either. Thunder Force IV makes the system look like it's about to die when you fight the stage 2 miniboss (and they completely removed all slowdown from the game entirely on the awesome Saturn version), but Gleylancer doesn't have a whole lot of slowdown. It's still there, like on the stage 1 boss, but it mostly is smooth.

 

They did a great job on the game, and I think the only real problem with it is that it's a bit too easy even on hard, and I don't really think that's much of a bad thing. There is a mania difficulty setting, but...

Hey I loved the 80s arcades, don't get me wrong, I do love to shit on Genesis audio often because let's be frank on this, most those bastards were lazy and just cheaping a way into a fast buck with less pride than should have bee taken in their work, and as such, sounded like garbage often when used improperly.  But when it's done well, such as a few games I own currently (and others I've had) rivaled the insane output some excellent Sega(and not) arcade titles using the same/similar YM chip so I know it and that's what causes me to roast on Genesis audio even more -- it's depressing, annoying.   I don't think I have any CUBE driver carts, maybe? unless those are the lot of them you listed then no.  I can think of others that don't do the tinny twang of cheap metal guitar or the muffled poor audio when it came to samples/vocal style recordings like that SF2CE atrocity.

 

I suspect you're right about the layers, some nutbag geniuses did the same on the Famicom too when you dig into some of the insanity it got such as Crisis Force for Famicom, you'd swear it was a PC Engine title.  I saw this guy using Mesen on youtube break down all the points of reference live researching it to make the episode, digging into background layers, system calls, etc with the various boxes up enabling/disabling this or that and it was a crazy logical breakdown where you really can just crush so called similar system limitations in style.  ...I don't mind an easy setting on shooters, especially these days, not that I'm slower, but I don't want to nor care to put the time into mastering such things anymore as they're more just for blowing crap up and using that to chill and enjoy.

[Steven Pendleton]

3 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

Stunning, if it can be shared I'd love to know the details about who ended up with this stuff, how they perhaps got it, and then the end game of it falling with sheer dumb luck into your hands.  Also curious on a second level what the mystery games that aren't released are and how far along.  You might have something there, not just to lord over people as some clowns will do, but if they're finished or nearly so, entities like Piko Interactive who partners with the very talented and credible Shiryu could finish the game, retail it on various formats, and you could see a benefit out of it if it can be contractually cleared up that is.

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, mainly because someone already did it:

 

https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/gleylancer-switch/

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0891-PPSA05155_00-RATAGAGLEYLANCER/

https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/Gleylancer/9NMZRLZNGWPJ

 

It would be interesting if it's a prototype English version, but the game is about 50% in surprisingly good English as it is.

[Tanooki]

3 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, mainly because someone already did it:

 

https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/gleylancer-switch/

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0891-PPSA05155_00-RATAGAGLEYLANCER/

https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/Gleylancer/9NMZRLZNGWPJ

 

It would be interesting if it's a prototype English version, but the game is about 50% in surprisingly good English as it is.

Wow had no idea about that, but I was referring to the unfinished stuff, not that shooter.

 

See the post before the game screen shot, this part " Like I mentioned more on that later as I am dumping the games and doing research. I wish I knew the conclusive story with this game, but there is decent traction for the potential that it was an industry insider demo sent to the same higher up that had all these demo/prototype/dev carts. Some are development carts that have the actual retail ROM on them, some are early builds of retail releases, a couple are unreleased games or builds,"

[DrBizz]

12 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Stunning, if it can be shared I'd love to know the details about who ended up with this stuff, how they perhaps got it, and then the end game of it falling with sheer dumb luck into your hands.  Also curious on a second level what the mystery games that aren't released are and how far along.  You might have something there, not just to lord over people as some clowns will do, but if they're finished or nearly so, entities like Piko Interactive who partners with the very talented and credible Shiryu could finish the game, retail it on various formats, and you could see a benefit out of it if it can be contractually cleared up that is.

There is actually a very direct answer to that, but something really important to me is to respect the privacy of those involved with how I ended up with the carts. I guess what I can say is that I have personal confirmation that they were quite high up in a game development company here in the bay area of California and personally had authority to keep whatever they wanted. Unfortunately I can't really just ask them tons of questions at the moment, I'm a few people removed from the original "source". I don't have anything groundbreaking, but interesting and definitely some cool stuff for sure. I will release every ROM for free when the time comes, I can't stand the bullshit that happens when some jackass holds something interesting to the community for ransom. Really lame that people do that. Don't get too excited, it's not like Earthbound for NES or anything like that, but still fun.

[DrBizz]

12 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, mainly because someone already did it:

 

https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/gleylancer-switch/

https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP0891-PPSA05155_00-RATAGAGLEYLANCER/

https://www.xbox.com/en-us/games/store/Gleylancer/9NMZRLZNGWPJ

 

It would be interesting if it's a prototype English version, but the game is about 50% in surprisingly good English as it is.

When I first loaded it up I thought there was a chance at that, but I have dumped the ROM and confirmed with WinHex that byte for byte it is the identical retail ROM of the Japanese release.

[Tanooki]

@DrBizz Honorable and I get that.  I used to work in the industry half a lifetime ago, media after, and in both cases there were NDAs involved.  While I think you're one step below that, the intention is all the same so you don't need to say more.  Given your last two sentences, we're on the same page 100%.  Back when NintendoAge was like a little less arrogant and an authority of things (talking decade ago now plus) along with digital press I remember conversations that went into scum like that, and one that always stood out to me, yet no one had a name, since the guy worked stealth through yahoo japan auctions is a local over there.  He would intentionally pay up, sometimes more than he should, just to get prototypes, betas, unfinished works and related, and then ghost it.  Never could even get a straight answer if the stuff was ever properly preserved and duplicated in storage, but he'd just buy things, then hide them.  Those I guess who knew who it was and could get in contact could never pry info (minimum at best) or a piece out of his grubby fingers, he basically was the equal of then gamer historians entitled Karen.   All about him, and no one else, a black hole of asshole-ism where nothing escapes.

 

I wouldn't care if it was earthbound or not, those guys make no sense to me anyway, haven't in 20 years as the game is utterly mediocre and not rare.  If it's history, it's news, it's worthy of checking out (text, pics, videos...game?) I'm happy to find out, dig into it, preserve it and all that.

[Steven Pendleton]

20 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Hey I loved the 80s arcades, don't get me wrong, I do love to shit on Genesis audio often because let's be frank on this, most those bastards were lazy and just cheaping a way into a fast buck with less pride than should have bee taken in their work, and as such, sounded like garbage often when used improperly.  But when it's done well, such as a few games I own currently (and others I've had) rivaled the insane output some excellent Sega(and not) arcade titles using the same/similar YM chip so I know it and that's what causes me to roast on Genesis audio even more -- it's depressing, annoying.   I don't think I have any CUBE driver carts, maybe? unless those are the lot of them you listed then no.  I can think of others that don't do the tinny twang of cheap metal guitar or the muffled poor audio when it came to samples/vocal style recordings like that SF2CE atrocity.

Yeah, I think a lot of devs just made something that vaguely resembles music just so they could say that their game had something that vaguely resembles music and called it good. Part of the problem was that I don't know if Sega ever distributed any specific sound tools until they created the GEMS sound driver, which is the one that gives the system a bad reputation since a lot of the really bad audio comes from games that used GEMS. There are some good ones that used GEMS, though, like Comix Zone, Earthworm Jim, and Earthworm Jim 2, but most of the time... yeah, Sonic Spinball options menu lol. Yes, that was made with GEMS. It took a lot of time and skill to do great audio on the system and I don't think a lot of devs wanted to bother with it.

 

There's a list of Cube sound driver games out there, but the ones that I remember are the Iwadare ones, which include Gleylancer, Zero Wing, Langrisser, and Langrisser II. I forget if he did any more, but I'd be surprised if he didn't. There are more Cube sound driver games besides these, but I forget all of the others.

 

I will say that the best soundtrack on the system that I have heard is something that most people tend to forget exists: Sonic 3D Blast's soundtrack is absolutely beautiful. Nobody ever talks about this, but it's true. I know a lot of people hate this game for some reason, but I love it. I think I might go play it again soon. There is no Japanese Mega Drive release... sadness.

20 hours ago, Tanooki said:

...I don't mind an easy setting on shooters, especially these days, not that I'm slower, but I don't want to nor care to put the time into mastering such things anymore as they're more just for blowing crap up and using that to chill and enjoy.

Have you played Kyuukyoku Tiger? From an interview with one of the guys who worked on the game:

 

"Naturally, STGs are about the thrill of blowing stuff up, but we wanted a game where, just by looking at it, you could tell it would be fun to play even when you’re drunk. In fact, we enjoyed playing it drunk ourselves.

 

One day I was in the city and I saw some imposing tough guy pounding the Kyuukyoku Tiger cabinet with all his strength after Game Over flashed on screen. I thought we’d succeeded in making a game that people could get passionate about."

 

Yeah, Kyuukyoku Tiger was literally created specifically for people to enjoy the thrill of blowing shit up, and the developer's honesty about this is why I love both the game itself and the developer so much. Go pick it up on PS4 or Switch if you don't have it, but be careful, as the game's really damn difficult. You can adjust the difficulty settings with the DIP switches to make it easier and M2 added some cool stuff to the custom mode where you can make your hurtbox tiny and increase the speed of your helicopter, among other fun things. Doing this totally breaks the game since it wasn't designed for you to be able to move anywhere near as fast as the custom mode will let you, but it's a lot of fun to mess around with. It is Japan-only on PS4 and Switch, though. Just don't play the Genesis/Mega Drive version first, because while it's a great port, it's even harder than the already brutal and unforgiving arcade version.

8 hours ago, DrBizz said:

When I first loaded it up I thought there was a chance at that, but I have dumped the ROM and confirmed with WinHex that byte for byte it is the identical retail ROM of the Japanese release.

I'm guessing if it was an official cart that it was created to demo it to some executive or something like that. Hard to say, but this is the only thing I can think of if it was intentionally created for official business purposes.

[Tanooki]

@Steven Pendleton Nice detailed reply.  I'm not really up on the back side of Genesis/MD developer shenanigans on why so many Genesis games sounded like garbage to their arcade and/or SNES contemporaries, but damn Sega was doubly foolish yet again with things having no tools, then garbage tools which probably would been better off just having no tools.  If there's a list I'd look as I'm curious and more detail on CUBE too.  What little I've touched of those games you did list (Gleylancer and Zero Wing) the audio there is superior, big time, like wrecks my argument the PCE had better sound capabilities as it easily rivals that.  I do though vaguely to where I'd have to watch a long play remember what you're saying about 3D Blast, I had it anytime I've had a genesis, until now, and that's because outside of a few exceptions I don't want some HUGE library so I'm 95%+ buying local only, so I just haven't come across it yet.  The few exceptions so far were like standing at retail, seeing a moderate price but with crap condition not taken into account, so I'd middle finger the store and ebay one for like 10-20% less then and there (did this with Gauntlet IV as half price had one with claw marks into the plastic through the label for $50, and I bagged one for 10 shipped less online immediately -- game still is there now $10 less hah.)  My friend in the NE talked me into a bundle of a few games a local to him had they were willing to ship is the other case (with $100 CIB landstalker at $40 I bit.)

 

**Edit found Cube (and GEMS) list on sega retro.  I do own a Galaxy Force II, Ys 3, and I used to have some years back Granada, Mean Bean Machine, and Steel Empire so I'm familiar they do stand out, Ys surprised me quite a bit owning the SNES title.)  I've got access to a few others on a modern now sold 218in1 Gen/MD multicart from aliexpress and ran RangerX 2 nights ago, that was smooth.

 

The game you mentioned there, that's Twin Cobra(had to look it up) and I had the NES one years ago, never tried it on Genesis.  That developer does make good sense, don't make a game punishing, just challenging, only enough that you can still play even when toasted so it stays fun whether you're drunk or not.  That's not a bad idea.  And I have read that about the Gen/MD release, rather not smash my brand new OEM Genesis controller in a rage.

 

I've got the Mega Sg and a region unlocked for Japan Nomad too, problem is I can't really find a MD only release that I know of I'd enjoy that isn't a damned ripoff due to internet scum so I guess had I a list, I could fire up the everdrive but I tend to like to own games I really want to put the effort into because when it comes to just ROMs my care meter drops to zero usually within 5-15min and I don't come back because I'm not invested into giving a crap.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Tanooki

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I do though vaguely to where I'd have to watch a long play remember what you're saying about 3D Blast, I had it anytime I've had a genesis, until now, and that's because outside of a few exceptions I don't want some HUGE library so I'm 95%+ buying local only, so I just haven't come across it yet. 

You can go buy the ROM on Steam and then put it on your Everdrive if you want. Sega put a few of their best games on Steam, including Sonic 1-3&K, 3D Blast, Ristar, Streets of Rage 1 and 2, and Gunstar Heroes, so that's a nice place to get some of those games legitimately for like $1 each or $5 each for Sonic. That's one of the best deals available on any system ever, and since Valve isn't going away any time soon, those games are going to be there for a very long time. They download to a directory on your computer, so you can just go to the directory, pull the ROM out of there, put it on your SD card, and there you go.

 

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

The game you mentioned there, that's Twin Cobra(had to look it up) and I had the NES one years ago, never tried it on Genesis.  That developer does make good sense, don't make a game punishing, just challenging, only enough that you can still play even when toasted so it stays fun whether you're drunk or not.  That's not a bad idea.  And I have read that about the Gen/MD release, rather not smash my brand new OEM Genesis controller in a rage.

Arcade Twin Cobra is actually a modified version of Kyuukyoku Tiger that Toaplan made for international arcades. They added 2 player mode, made your helicopter faster, reduced the number of shots the players can have on screen at one time from 4 to 3, reduced the game's difficulty, changed the order in which powerups appear, reduced the extend score from 70,000 and then every 200,000 to 50,000 and then every 150,000, and because the game is now a 2P game, they made the player respawn where they died instead of getting sent to a checkpoint. This is typical with Toaplan games in general, so games like Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!/Fire Shark, and Hellfire have similar changes to their separate 2P versions.

 

The home versions are all based on Kyuukyoku Tiger, but they kept the Twin Cobra name internationally. Toaplan always designed their games with single player as the main version, and they considered the 1P versions, some of which are exclusive to Japan like K Tiger, to be the primary versions of their games and the way that they would want you to play them. They basically made the 2P versions because they knew there was a big market for them overseas and it helped them make money.

 

As for the Sega port... lol it's an asskicker for sure. Toaplan didn't actually make that port themselves, though. The original 1P arcade version is really tough and will send you to the game over screen in a hurry until you learn the game, but it's never unfair. It's a badass game and playing it makes you feel like a badass... until it kills you, which it absolutely will lol. The Sega port is absolutely terrifying and probably one of the hardest games on the system alongside Assault Suit Leynos.

 

I'd probably go with the M2 release, though, as it's really good and includes a lot of the home versions, including the FC and NES versions, the very well-done PC Engine version, and the terrifying MD and Genesis versions: https://m2stg.com/kyukyoku-tiger-heli/

 

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

I've got the Mega Sg and a region unlocked for Japan Nomad too, problem is I can't really find a MD only release that I know of I'd enjoy that isn't a damned ripoff due to internet scum so I guess had I a list, I could fire up the everdrive but I tend to like to own games I really want to put the effort into because when it comes to just ROMs my care meter drops to zero usually within 5-15min and I don't come back because I'm not invested into giving a crap.

I am the same way. I'd rather have the actual game. I'll use a ROM loading cart or the MiSTer if I have to, but I'd rather use the real thing. Japanese MD is a horrible system to buy games for because of the prices, though. I'd say it's worse than PC Engine as a whole, although I think most people don't really get into Japanese Mega Drive like they do with PC Engine since a lot of the Mega Drive games actually got released outside of Japan, unlike the PC Engine, so I think a lot of people who don't specifically go for Japanese MD know how insane the prices are. There are fewer extremely expensive titles, but there are more moderately expensive titles as a whole. Sonic & Knuckles is considered a rare game and you're looking at $100+ for a complete copy. I paid 9000 yen for a cart-only copy in 2019 because it was literally the only copy of the game I could find in the entire city.

 

Don't get me started on the prices of Gleylancer, Slap Fight MD (seriously, play Slap Fight MD if you haven't! 1 cart with 2 badass games that are easy to get into but have insane longevity for even experienced players and one of the single best soundtracks on the system!), Panorama Cotton, Vampire Killer, Alien Soldier (VISUALSHOCK! SPEEDSHOCK! SOUNDSHOCK! NOW IS TIME TO THE 68000 HEART ON FIRE!), Japanese Comix Zone (yes, this is a $1200 game here!), or the $1500~$2000 Eliminate Down and Snow Bros.. There's a lot of really great Japanese MD games, but you're going to pay a lot of cash for all of them.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Steven Pendleton