Ikrananka Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I recently picked up a fully working Roller Controller in good condition from eBay with the intent that it will be for my day to day use. While the controller is fully working, the bearings make that awful rattling sound that I hear from all ColecoVision Roller Controllers. So, this got me to thinking about either lubricating or replacing the bearings to see if this might not only reduce the noise but improved their performance. What I found when I dismantled the unit both surprised and shocked me. While the ball bearings and outer shell are all metal, the rest is plastic, including the ball race (all the black parts in the above photo). No wonder they make so much noise and their performance is mediocre at best. Clearly this was about keeping manufacturing costs low so I guess I shouldn't have been surprised - but I was. The bearings in comparable 2 1/4" arcade machine trackballs are all metal and so I thought I'd buy some of those (e.g. here and here) to see if they improved the Roller Controller. However, after measuring the Roller Controller bearings I found some dimensions appeared to be non-standard. So, now I'm not sure what to do. I might just get some arcade trackball bearings anyway and see if the small dimension differences actually have any real effect or not. Roller Controller Arcade Trackball ID 0.25" 0.25" OD 0.69" 0.625" W 0.252" 0.196" Standard ODs seem to be 0.625" and 0.75" Has anyone else tried replacing the Roller Controller bearings with better ones? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 3 things I have done to revive my RC. WD 40 the bearings, clean the rollers and Ajax the billiard ball. Was enough to play another game of slither. Edited June 3, 2022 by Captain Cozmos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 3, 2022 Author Share Posted June 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: 3 things I have done to revive my RC. WD 40 the bearings, clean the rollers and Ajax the billiard ball. Was enough to play another game of slither. The RC I have is actually working pretty well - I just don't like the noisy bearings and reckon there must be better alternatives. BTW, while WD40 may help clean out old grease or oil from the bearings, it is not an appropriate bearing lubricant and will mostly evaporate while likely leaving a residue in the process. Best bet is to use a drop or two of light oil that is specifically designed for bearings. I'm thinking of trying out this stuff : https://www.liquidbearings.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Since the OD is the stationary half in 4 out of the 5 bearings, I wonder if you couldn't just get by with a set of the standard 0.625" bearings with a thin (3D printed? machined on a lathe?) ring added to the outside? Since it's not attaching to a rolling surface, the precision (besides the extra diameter) almost wouldn't matter at all. You could think of the 3D printed part more as an adapter for the plastic shell than as an adapter for the bearing; it doesn't even necessarily have to be round, so long as it slots into the same place on the inside of the shell. I don't have any ideas for that 5th bearing though. It is a rolling surface so it needs to be smooth/wear-resistant (so no 3D printing) and if you change the OD on that one, you'll raise or lower the ball, which is undesirable. Maybe replace it with a standard 0.625" OD but then 3D print a little plastic piece to raise it in its holder exactly the right amount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 11 hours ago, Falonn said: Since the OD is the stationary half in 4 out of the 5 bearings..... 3D printing some shims is a great idea. I'll order up some of the all metal bearings and will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Oddly enough, I opened one of my Roller Controller's collected throughout the years and the bearings are 100% metal, no plastic. Edited June 7, 2022 by Captain Cozmos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: Oddly enough, I opened one of my Roller Controller's collected throughout the years and the bearings are 100% metal, no plastic. Interesting - any part numbers on them? Is your one a North American unit or a CBS European unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Sorry, no part number. I seem to remember that this was the first roller controller I bought with my summer job money when it first came out. I can only assume that they went to cheaper parts later on. I opened up another one about an hour ago to check and this one has bearings like the one you showed. A funny anecdote is that I also have an extremely old standard controller that when I opened to clean the contacts it still had the placement on the PCB where reed switches for the spinners would go. Edited June 7, 2022 by Captain Cozmos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: Sorry, no part number. I seem to remember that this was the first roller controller I bought with my summer job money when it first came out. I can only assume that they went to cheaper parts later on. I opened up another one about an hour ago to check and this one has bearings like the one you showed. Thanks for opening these up - very interesting. Do you happen to have a micrometer that you could measure the dimensions of the all-metal bearings? Console5.com are getting some all-metal bearings in so I'm going to order those when they're available. I can then see if shims are needed with these R4-ZZ bearings. Couldn't but help notice that you previously posted a part number NMB 626Z - guessing that was a mistake as you deleted it (although the dimensions of that model are very similar to the R4-ZZ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 The 626Z were from an Atari 5200 roller, I was comparing the two and made a mistake when I posted the numbers so I quickly deleted it. I thought I might be able to swap the two out but the 5200's do not fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 37 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: The 626Z were from an Atari 5200 roller, I was comparing the two and made a mistake when I posted the numbers so I quickly deleted it. I thought I might be able to swap the two out but the 5200's do not fit. That's actually really good to know. I believe the ID of the 626Z is exactly 6mm while the R4-ZZ (and equivalents) is 0.25" or 6.35mm. Based on this the 626Z ID would likely be too small to fit on the shafts of the rollers/axles used in the Coleco Roller Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Since there's more than one model out there, let me add my own data point to the census. (I'm glad I did; this appears to be the first time this thing was opened in ~40 years and the caked-on dirt on the tracks showed it.) ? I tried to find any revision markings on the inner shell, but didn't see anything. (I didn't check under the PCB.) Worse, what appears to be the serial number sticker inside the controller #1 alcove has been partially torn off, so I can only see that the number ends in ...2183. I get the same "crunchy" sound when you roll the ball quickly. Same plastic bearings from the photo in the top post. I measured several OD points on two of the bearings and found an average of 0.6878" ±1.5 "tenths". The IDs were both bang-on 0.2500" ±0.5 tenths. For the sake of generating additional data, I measured the little steel pin that's slotted in the diagonal bearing and found 0.24965". That tiny bit of play between the two was what prompted me to check. The other shafts were a tighter fit and also measured 0.25000" exactly to the precision available to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I have an Atari 2600 trackball somewhere so I will check that one as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Maybe it is a standard size bearing after all? That 0.6878" is essentially "11/16 inch", which returns lots of search results. Bearing model 1602-ZZ seems to fit the bill. (Clicking around the Internet, a few seem to be mislabeled as -ZZ but with a 5/16" width. Those should be labeled -2RS.) Edited June 7, 2022 by Falonn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) I found a bearing in my surplus that fits the optical wheel shaft but not the diagonal pin. It is also too small for the mount but it is a start as far as the shaft is concerned. I hope these numbers help with this detective story NMB 4-HH. According to the data sheet the inner shaft is 0.25 in if I read it right. https://nmbtc.com/parts/r-4hh/ Edited June 7, 2022 by Captain Cozmos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: I found a bearing in my surplus that fits the optical wheel shaft but not the diagonal pin. This is very interesting! All five of my bearings were the same size. Is this in the RC with the different-than-Ikrananka's, all-metal bearings? Or is this in the RC with the plastic bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Falonn said: This is very interesting! All five of my bearings were the same size. Is this in the RC with the different-than-Ikrananka's, all-metal bearings? Or is this in the RC with the plastic bearings? This is an all metal bearing. I am thinking they went with the plastic bearing not only for cheap manufacturing but it will fit universally throughout the controller. What gets me is the quality Atari puts in their products compared to what Coleco did. My measurements on the Coleco bearing, as far as the optical shaft are inside 0.25, thickness 0.25, outside diameter 11/16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 After research I think these are the replacements https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JKDCS1J/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B09JKDCS1J&pd_rd_w=zWgqs&content-id=amzn1.sym.24b0b161-2d2e-40f8-8233-013eb186b34a&pf_rd_p=24b0b161-2d2e-40f8-8233-013eb186b34a&pf_rd_r=57PQQY8010JVS9TF7EZ7&pd_rd_wg=neQ7d&pd_rd_r=d797ec02-66f6-4c1a-89f1-9d6ce88a7d62&s=industrial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Are those the replacements for the diagonal bearing (when it isn't the same size as the others)? I just grabbed a handful of 1602-ZZ bearings from The Big Bearing Store. Grainger had them for $4 or $9/ea. but this place was only $1.80. Then, I always worry about shipping from this style hardware place (it feels like MSC Direct's shipping starts at $30 no matter what you order ? ) but this place was only ~$4 extra, which was a pleasant surprise. Either way, hopefully I'll be able to report whether the bearings fix the crunchy noise in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, Captain Cozmos said: After research I think these are the replacements https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JKDCS1J/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B09JKDCS1J&pd_rd_w=zWgqs&content-id=amzn1.sym.24b0b161-2d2e-40f8-8233-013eb186b34a&pf_rd_p=24b0b161-2d2e-40f8-8233-013eb186b34a&pf_rd_r=57PQQY8010JVS9TF7EZ7&pd_rd_wg=neQ7d&pd_rd_r=d797ec02-66f6-4c1a-89f1-9d6ce88a7d62&s=industrial I don't think that can be right, the linked bearing is too small in all dimensions, it is ID = 0.16", OD = 0.43", W = 0.16" whereas the dimensions of the one in my RC are ID = 0.25", OD = 0.69", W = 0.25" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, Falonn said: Are those the replacements for the diagonal bearing (when it isn't the same size as the others)? I just grabbed a handful of 1602-ZZ bearings from The Big Bearing Store. Grainger had them for $4 or $9/ea. but this place was only $1.80. Then, I always worry about shipping from this style hardware place (it feels like MSC Direct's shipping starts at $30 no matter what you order ? ) but this place was only ~$4 extra, which was a pleasant surprise. Either way, hopefully I'll be able to report whether the bearings fix the crunchy noise in a few days. Very interested to hear your experience with these. It can all too often be difficult to get things shipped for a reasonable price from the US to Canada. For example, I just added 10 of those Big Bearing Store 1602-ZZ bearings to my cart and the shipping cost is $40 - just ridiculous. Hence the reason I was checking out console5.com as there are other items I want to buy and the shipping is reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Falonn said: Maybe it is a standard size bearing after all? That 0.6878" is essentially "11/16 inch", which returns lots of search results. Bearing model 1602-ZZ seems to fit the bill. Fantastic - great find. Must see if I can get them from somewhere shipped to Canada for a reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ikrananka said: I don't think that can be right, the linked bearing is too small in all dimensions, it is ID = 0.16", OD = 0.43", W = 0.16" whereas the dimensions of the one in my RC are ID = 0.25", OD = 0.69", W = 0.25" No problem. I had an extra $8 laying around so I ordered them. I could always send them back if they don't work out. In the mean time I used some white grease I had and packed the bearings which seem to clear up the crunch. One of the encoder wheels is already cracked but I have a few sitting around. With that, I have been through two RC's which are failing on my ADAM but working on my Colecovision so that is never good because now I have to dig another ADAM out of my closet and hope it works. I use the ADAM for development because my AtariMax burned up and all I have left is an ADE Edited June 7, 2022 by Captain Cozmos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falonn Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Cozmos said: One of the encoder wheels is already cracked but I have a few sitting around. I've never taken an encoder wheel off before, but I'll need to when these replacement bearings arrive. Do you have any advice? Pulling on the encoder wheel with medium force didn't free it from the shaft and I didn't want to force anything before I knew for sure. Is it just a tight friction fit? Is there glue? Or maybe it's screwed on? (Thanks!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Cozmos Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 Just use even pressure and pull off. I have never found one that has been anything but pressure fitted. No glue, no screws. The one that has a crack was one I bought off ebay and even with the crack it still works. It can be crazy glued with zero issues then pushed back on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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