Cassette loading / readin help pls!

[jetset]

I just bought a TI Cassette player, compatible dual cord with 9-pin plug, and the Adventure game module. I remember the TI always being fussy with cassette loading, and once I got everything set up it was a chore but I got the game to load. I got a chance to test it yesterday for real to play and save then load the saved game. Unfortunately it didn't work, and I don't know if it's coincidence but now I can't get the game to load at all, I keep getting the "No data found" error message.

I've tried everything I can think of...read up on the web, but I can't seem to find anything in the way of a fix or possible solution. Weird thing is when it was working I could hear the data screeching through the television just like you would head sounds from the game. Now I don't hear that at all. When I take out the white (audio) cord, I can hear the data via the cassette players' speaker but it's pretty faint even with the volume jacked up. I tried a few pairs of headphones, and they all worked great, in fact, it is pretty loud with headphones/earbuds.

If anyone can suggest what might be happening that'd be awesome. I don't know which of the three is the culprit...the cord, the cassette player or the game. Like I said it *was* loading fine...the only thing that changed from when it worked to when it stopped working is I recorded/saved my game progress. After that it just won't load.  I don't want to return any of them, but will if needs be. I haven't tried to mess with taking apart the cassette player to see if that is the problem...I'm not at all tech-inclined   
TIA!

[HOME AUTOMATION]

Dé jà vu...

Edited June 21, 2022 by HOME AUTOMATION

[Ed in SoDak]

2 hours ago, jetset said:

 I got a chance to test it yesterday for real to play and save then load the saved game. Unfortunately it didn't work, and I don't know if it's coincidence but now I can't get the game to load at all, I keep getting the "No data found" error message.

 

I hope you saved to a different tape or at least did not record over the original tape file. Make sure you're using the cord for CS1, the one which has three connector plugs and have record and play sorted correctly.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ed in SoDak

[jetset]

31 minutes ago, Ed in SoDak said:

I hope you saved to a different tape or at least did not record over the original tape file. Make sure you're using the cord for CS1, the one which has three connector plugs and have record and play sorted correctly.

Yes I used a brand-new blank tape. The original you’d have to go out of your way to record over it with the tab pulled off. 
Which, to be fair…I’ve been blockheaded enough to do a something like that but cassette tapes I know how to Make sure it’s not erased.

[sparkdrummer]

Try putting a blank cassette in the recorder and then cycling the recorder and play buttons 20 times or so. Both record and play activate switches when depressed and with age and no use they don’t make a good connection and the recorder won’t operate correctly. I have done this on quite a few recorders and was able to get them functioning again. Maybe you’ll get lucky. 

[XLERB]

I have an original Texas Instruments  (GE, as I understand it) “Cassette Program Recorder.” It no longer works reliably with the console on any of my cassette cables, though the Scott Adams “Adventure” cassettes seem to work better than TI-Basic or XB cassettes or the LBLA with Mini-Memory. But I have a cassette recorder from Vermont Country Store (no joke) that works much better, though it needs a 1/4” to 3.5 mm adapter.

 

You might try shooting some de-ox in the volume control on the TI recorder and se if that helps.

[Ed in SoDak]

It occurs to me that we're told to replace electrolytic capacitors as a matter of course in old radios of the same era as the GE recorders.

 

And it's a common thread that the TI and other computers see random chip failures that tend to happen more frequently with certain chips.

 

Yet we give the recorders a pass and don't bother looking at things beyond cabling, level settings and contact cleaning. I have myself, though my TI/GE recorder still works so I've never needed to troubleshoot it.

 

Infrequent use plays a big part in shortening capacitor life. And poor storage conditions. Most old recorders have seen plenty of both.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Ed in SoDak

[+TheBF]

Another thing that should be done as a matter of course is cleaning the tape transport with 99% isopropanol and a soft cloth and a Q tip for the hard to read crevices.

This includes cleaning the surface of the tape heads and the entire circumference of the pinch roller and capstan.

Care should be taken not to push to hard on the heads or any part the guides the tape so not to misalign them.

 

(Having flashbacks to my first job at a radio station)  

[jetset]

Thanks for the suggestions...I tried playing a tape and recording to try and get anything clear of the buttons, tried the q-tip/alcohol, I did take it apart, but the way the wires are situated I couldn't get the main board apart from the casing, and I've had BAD luck in messing with stuff unfortunately so I didn't go any further. I'm going to try and find a cheap cassette player off ebay, I'm pretty convinced that's the problem just from that the player I have doesn't play very loud from the speaker. I put in the "Adventure" game and turned the volume to max, I still had to put my ear to the speaker to hear it. AND I know for sure the sound was going through (before) as I was able to hear it through the TV when I'd load the cassette (at first, when it *did* work) but now I don't hear it at all through the TV. I thought the player HAD to be either proprietary or at least be specifically for an old computer.

Question - if I buy any old cassette recorder, does it need to have all THREE inputs? The TI one I have has the ear/speaker plug (which is the white cord), the mic (red), and the "mem" which I'm guessing is used so the TI can control when "play" and "rewind" are on the screen. SO, all I really need is a player/recorder that has at least the "mic" and earphone inputs is that correct?

Many thanks...as I said....I'm not very technical or handy lol. I bought the tape deck from Ebay as "untested", which I should have known better, but I wanted a TI player 

[+TheBF]

You do not need the remote control connector.

You only NEED audio in and audio out.

When the prompt on the screen says "PRESS CASSETTE RECORD" etc. just start the machine manually. 

[jetset]

Picked up another cassette player. It's REALLY fickle. I get “Error detected in data” 4-5 times before it finally loads. Seriously getting frustrated. Grrr!
 

Edited June 28, 2022 by jetset

[+Ksarul]

10 hours ago, jetset said:

Picked up another cassette player. It's REALLY fickle. I get “Error detected in data” 4-5 times before it finally loads. Seriously getting frustrated. Grrr!

Have you played with the volume and tone settings to see what is optimal for that recorder? Just keep it set at the sweet spot once you do find it. . .something most of us had beaten into us the hard way BITD.

[jetset]

4 minutes ago, Ksarul said:

Have you played with the volume and tone settings to see what is optimal for that recorder? Just keep it set at the sweet spot once you do find it. . .something most of us had beaten into us the hard way BITD.

 

I did actually, that's how I got it to work fairly consistently. Still not able to record my progress. I'm guessing (hoping) either the tapes I bought are complete crap, or I'm naming the file wrong (doubt that...I just used the filename cs1.adv1)
The save game seems to only record about 10 seconds of data. The actual game cart takes 2 & 1/2 minutes to load so I think *think* the record time for the save file should be a bit longer...

[HOME AUTOMATION]

12 hours ago, jetset said:

If that thing with the big safety check-mark on it, is the power XFMR, it's much too close to the cassette-recorder. This will inject A.C. hum into the audio channel. Hum can also be caused by incorrect grounding in the A.C. distribution system, or powering the separate units(computer/recorder) from different outlets on a split-phase, or multi-phase, system. Using batteries(alone) would tend to bypass the latter issue. Also a bad idea to let the tapes get too close to the XFMR.

 

Yet another source of noise is related to the proximity of the player/recorder(cables too) to a T.V., or monitor's fly-back, and/or deflection coils.

Edited June 29, 2022 by HOME AUTOMATION
spelling, additional content!

[+Ksarul]

1 hour ago, jetset said:

 

I did actually, that's how I got it to work fairly consistently. Still not able to record my progress. I'm guessing (hoping) either the tapes I bought are complete crap, or I'm naming the file wrong (doubt that...I just used the filename cs1.adv1)
The save game seems to only record about 10 seconds of data. The actual game cart takes 2 & 1/2 minutes to load so I think *think* the record time for the save file should be a bit longer...

Saving to cassette is a bit different than some other systems. Normally, you just type SAVE CS1 and proceed from there. Note the need for all Caps. The TI is a bit weird that way. Save game should be a little longer than that, you are correct. I just don't remember how long it should be with the Adventure games, as I started in on those at the same time I got my disk system. Just be careful not to save to one of your original tapes, as it will overwrite if it can (tape not write protected). When putting multiple files on a single tape, the program counter (if there is one that works) is your friend, as that tells you about where on the tape the next program will be. Usually, I just stop fast forwarding a few feet before the program is supposed to start and hit play, listening to the last bits of the prior program. When the data stops, you know your program is next.

[Ed in SoDak]

My experience is with saving data to cassette from my darkroom timer or a cassette-based word processor I used a lot when starting out on the TI. The Adventure module should work in a similar manner.

 

When you save your Adventure game-in-progress data to a tape, it's sent out in brief chunks (about 10 seconds) with a long pause between. It's still saving until the computer displays on the screen to hit Stop. I recall there's a constant tone heard during the pause. It's needed to keep the recorder's auto-gain circuits from kicking in. There will be one data plus one pause for each line of saved data. Go fix a sandwich. Or watch some paint dry.

 

Loading your saved game back in will be similar.

 

I'd suggest using a blank tape and writing a short program, literally anything a few lines long.

10 REM TEST OF MY CASSETTE-BASED TRANSPORTER

15 REM WHAT COULD GO WORNG?

20 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"

30 PRINT "WHO PUT THAT FLY IN THE TRANSPORTER WITH ME??"

40 PRINT "<screams>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!"

50 REM ONE INFINITE LOOP

60 GOTO 40

70 STOP

 

SAVE CS1 when that's finished type NEW and hit ENTER

LOAD CS1 then LIST to see if it worked.

 

Now you have a baseline or at least a shorter, faster test tape that's no worries if it gets taped over.

 

Oh and they have those little holes for a reason, to make it easy to adjust the screw slightly till you hear it with the best-sounding high frequencies. Usually a small philips screw, you can see it right beside the record/play head if you put it in Play with no tape inserted. Of course you adjust it while actually playing the tape, lol.

 

 

[jetset]

13 hours ago, HOME AUTOMATION said:

If that thing with the big safety check-mark on it, is the power XFMR, it's much too close to the cassette-recorder. This will inject A.C. hum into the audio channel. Hum can also be caused by incorrect grounding in the A.C. distribution system, or powering the separate units(computer/recorder) from different outlets on a split-phase, or multi-phase, system. Using batteries(alone) would tend to bypass the latter issue. Also a bad idea to let the tapes get too close to the XFMR.

 

Yet another source of noise is related to the proximity of the player/recorder(cables too) to a T.V., or monitor's fly-back, and/or deflection coils.

 

Yeah, I did have a thought to move the player away from not just that but the tv and the TI unit itself, that seemed to work better. Not 100% lol. But better.

[Casey]

17 hours ago, jetset said:

 

I did actually, that's how I got it to work fairly consistently. Still not able to record my progress. I'm guessing (hoping) either the tapes I bought are complete crap, or I'm naming the file wrong (doubt that...I just used the filename cs1.adv1)
The save game seems to only record about 10 seconds of data. The actual game cart takes 2 & 1/2 minutes to load so I think *think* the record time for the save file should be a bit longer...

Also one thing to note - The TI doesn't recognize file names on cassette.  When the Adventure cartridge asks you for a file name, for cassette, it should just be CS1.  (That probably has very little to do with your issue, but unlike Commodore machines for example, file names are not used on tape).

[jetset]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

Also one thing to note - The TI doesn't recognize file names on cassette.  When the Adventure cartridge asks you for a file name, for cassette, it should just be CS1.  (That probably has very little to do with your issue, but unlike Commodore machines for example, file names are not used on tape).

Gotcha. It did actually take, I named the file cs1.adv111 - but it'll be easier in the future if just cs1 works. Thanks!

[jetset]

Well...I am humbly asking for assistance AGAIN. So the Jensen recorder above WAS working fine. Games loaded from cassette, I was able to save games and reload them...Then apparently the motor started fussing up and it wasn't playing the tape at the correct speed so the TI would not load the cassette.

Enter another cassette player. Worked fantastically loading from the original cassette, and loaded the saved game(s) I had recorded on a blank cassette with the previous player. This one has a slightly different setup, it allows for USB (which I don't really need) and has a setting for USB/Line in/tape/off. As I said, it loads wonderfully. Recording not so much. I've tried every combination - both the in (red) and out (white) plugged in at the same time - once on the "tape" setting, once on the "line in" setting. I tried recording with JUST the red cable, then switching to the "tape" setting with just the white cable...

Yes it's another pos cheap-o Amazon crap cassette, and while I'd much rather have an older model not so cheaply made, they're being sold as "classics" or "vintage" for a stupid high price.

Honestly, more than assistance with this player, I'm wondering if any of you can recommend a good brand that you use that's readily available on ebay, amazon, etc...if you have a thought of what *might* be my issue great. A suggestion of a player that's reliable to work with the TI is fine as well. 

TIA....again!

 

[sparkdrummer]

Looking at the first image I noticed that 2 of the jacks are LINE IN and LINE OUT. I did a search for a manual on this recorder - found it and it states that the LINE IN is just that - It is set up for a line level input - which means it's looking for a signal that's much louder than a MIC signal. The TI puts out a MIC level signal which is probably too low for the LINE IN input. I'm assuming that's why it won't record properly.

One thing you could try is open the recorder up and find the built in MIC, clip the leads and attach a 1/8" phone jack to it and see if it will record a good tape for you then. I know that sounds kind of hokey but we TI'ers are known for doing whatever it takes to make something work. 

[jetset]

9 hours ago, sparkdrummer said:

Looking at the first image I noticed that 2 of the jacks are LINE IN and LINE OUT. I did a search for a manual on this recorder - found it and it states that the LINE IN is just that - It is set up for a line level input - which means it's looking for a signal that's much louder than a MIC signal. The TI puts out a MIC level signal which is probably too low for the LINE IN input. I'm assuming that's why it won't record properly.

One thing you could try is open the recorder up and find the built in MIC, clip the leads and attach a 1/8" phone jack to it and see if it will record a good tape for you then. I know that sounds kind of hokey but we TI'ers are known for doing whatever it takes to make something work. 

Ok that def. sounds like a logical explanation...however, I am NOT good with technical stuff.  I've ruined more systems and controllers than I care to say trying to make internal adjustments. The recorder is new, I can just return it to Amazon for a refund. Do you know of any good cassette players you could recommend? I'll of course look around. I had bought a TI brand player off Ebay, unfortunately it was untested which of course meant unworking    
The one I have uses a built-in mic, so I wonder if it's picking up interference and/or background noise when I try to record. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by jetset

[Ed in SoDak]

The built-in mic is disabled when anything is plugged into the record input jack. There's a switch inside the jack to shut off the mic.

[+OLD CS1]

20 minutes ago, Ed in SoDak said:

The built-in mic is disabled when anything is plugged into the record input jack. There's a switch inside the jack to shut off the mic.

Not nice to lie to the guy like that.  That mic is hot when recording from the TI.  I used to sing into it when I would record my programs so that loading them later was less boring.

[jetset]

25 minutes ago, Ed in SoDak said:

The built-in mic is disabled when anything is plugged into the record input jack. There's a switch inside the jack to shut off the mic.

Except…it *is* picking up background noise. I heard the TI beep from my tv and me moving to press stop after I record a file.