5200 troubleshooting (4013 IC)

[CommodoreDecker]

So yesterday I went to turn on the 4-port 5200. Has been working just fine for months.  I bought it off eBay with composite and power mods, as well as capacitor replacements.  I turned it on, and the LED stayed on for 1/2 second then turned off.  It had a 1A, 9VDC generic power supply (+-top polarioty).

 

I suspected it's the 4013 IC. I cleaned the socket and pins. I also found a genuine 5200 power supply (11.5VDC, +-tip polarity) and swapped it.  The power started up, turned off after 1/2 second, but with the different power supply there was a low-pitched loud hum permeating regardless if the power button was depressed or not.  Swapping back to the third party PSU, the unit now makes a noise when the power button is pressed but quickly stops making the noise.

 

I am scavenging for another 4013 - during the interim, what's the chance I fried something?  Or could the 4013 been partly defective until after all the power button presses I made, which then worsened the effect? And could the genuine Atari 5200 PSU have a defect, explaining why only it made such a weird hum noise?  (The fact the unit still acts like it's trying to do something when powering on has me hopeful it's just a worn-out chip...)

 

Thanks!

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've had a few of the original 5200 PSUs that hum. Not that big a deal as long as it is still providing the proper DC voltage output from it. The hum is mainly caused because the laminate that holds the plates of the transformer together can weaken over time and cause the plates to vibrate making the hum.

 

But yes the 4013 is a pretty high failure component in the 5200. Most of the time they are in sockets making them easy to change out and you don't even have to remove the RF shielding to get to it etc. Console5 sells new ones and I've ordered from them over the years without any issues.

 

https://console5.com/store/cd4013-flip-flop-ic-atari-5200-power-stuck-on-or-off.html

 

However, the fact that is does power up briefly and then shuts off isn't quite normal as when the 4013 dies, it usually just doesn't switch over for the power to actually come on or results in the consoles always being stuck in the on position.

 

[marauder666]

I used a 1A, 9V regulated supply as it had the 2.5mm pin,  to test a batch of consoles that were for sale in the UK.  Yeah, I know, WOW!!!

 

All 3 powered up for 1/2 second then off, unlikely all 3 are bad, so soldered a 2.5mm plug on a 2A 9V PSU I had lying around, and they worked fine.

 

1A might not be enough for the startup current requirements.

 

I was thinking bad CD4013 too.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

35 minutes ago, marauder666 said:

I used a 1A, 9V regulated supply as it had the 2.5mm pin,  to test a batch of consoles that were for sale in the UK.  Yeah, I know, WOW!!!

 

All 3 powered up for 1/2 second then off, unlikely all 3 are bad, so soldered a 2.5mm plug on a 2A 9V PSU I had lying around, and they worked fine.

 

1A might not be enough for the startup current requirements.

 

I was thinking bad CD4013 too.

 

Accept that on my bench supply the 5200s I've worked on with UAVs installed with a AtariMax Ultimate SD were only drawing about 720 - 750mA of current from them. So 1A should be enough. I'm thinking Atari spec'd a larger current output supply along with the double 7805s to help with power delivery for expansion devices that never actually came to be. But I also don't know how much current a VCS adapter takes when plugged into the system but that would also explain the need for a larger supply.

 

That all being said... these PSUs from Console5 work really well as I've got one I use on the workbench for servicing 5200s when I need my bench supply for something else.

https://console5.com/store/triad-magnetics-power-supply-for-atari-5200-twin-famicom-pal-snes.html

 

Although interesting it says they are out of stock while also showing 80+ on hand? But I've got one of these and it has been excellent. Although, unlike an oeml 5200 PSU, it will not power on an Intellivision II console strangely enough so I suspect the Intelly 2 does need more current or the 9v switching output just isn't enough to start the Intelly 2 model.

 

 

[CommodoreDecker]

Thanks for the info and link!

 

One other thing about the constant hum from the CO18187, the hum was coming from the speakers - not the power brick.  After swapping back to the third party brick and powering on, on/off worked - just no LED light, but the constant hum was no longer present.

 

The video mod is just a hot-glued 2x3" barebones card with a transistor, a couple resistors, wires soldered between those and to the wires neatly laid out to the rear for the composite cables. It looks nothing like the UAV I saw online with the small microchips and screw-in tabs for the wire .

 

The 4013 is on order.  Looking forward to testing it when it arrives and will report back.  Console5 is out of PSUs (won't let me add one to the cart, despite "80 on hand" being mentioned), but I suspect the current (third party) one is just fine.  I'll keep the Atari branded 5200 PSU on the side and worry about that later, since I am sure it's okay despite it all as well. 

 

If nothing else, I have another 5200 board that stays stuck "on" - it'll probably work like new and the video mod can be moved over to it, too... if need be.

 

Not sure if my 1/2-second "on" problem is due to insufficient amperage as it was working for months, but will keep a lookout for 2A PSUs anyway. It won't need all of the 2A, but it'll be less strain on the transformer.

 

Is it possible that both PSUs are so old they no longer can handle the power requirement (750ma)?  Maybe a VRM went out, I should check into ordering a replacement just in case...

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The system wouldn't work properly if one of the VRs was out because they essentially handle half the load each on the system. I have seen one of them go out where the console would power on but give a black screen because the other VR wasn't working. So in order to get power and full logic working, requires both VRs to be working. You can test them easily enough using a multi-meter to measure both the input and output voltages to the VRs.

 

There isn't much to the OEM psus either. Just a large filter cap that can be replaced out easily enough if needed and the fuse mentioned above. I've seen the fuses give way during a power spike etc... so they can burn out. Otherwise, it is just the transformer inside the brick doing most of the work.

 

[zylon]

Few years back, mine would only half shut off. Screen would go black, when system powered off, but game would still be in memory. If I turned it back on without cart inserted, the prior game would play. If I unplugged it awhile, then it would power down properly. I replaced this transistor inside the switchbox, for the fix, and also the LM193 voltage comparator IC, to restore the response of going back to TV, upon power off.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Late edit: I just caught that your unit is a 4-port model; mine's a 2-port.  What I wrote below may or may not be applicable as a result, and as I'm not familiar with the 4-port systems I can't really say whether or not that's the case.  Sorry for any confusion!

 

One other thing to consider re: the power switch: the 4013 isn't the only component that needs to be working in order for it to do its thing correctly.  There are a couple of transistors at play as well, and it's possible that yours may also need to be replaced (mine certainly did).  Check this post as well as as the ones after it for a summary of what I ran into in regards to the power switch and how it was ultimately fixed.

 

Note that I'm not saying that your 4013 isn't bad - chances are good that it is, and since you're in there anyway and they're cheap, it can't hurt to replace it.  It may not be the sole culprit, however.  Good luck!

[CommodoreDecker]

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Late edit: I just caught that your unit is a 4-port model; mine's a 2-port.  What I wrote below may or may not be applicable as a result, and as I'm not familiar with the 4-port systems I can't really say whether or not that's the case.  Sorry for any confusion!

 

One other thing to consider re: the power switch: the 4013 isn't the only component that needs to be working in order for it to do its thing correctly.  There are a couple of transistors at play as well, and it's possible that yours may also need to be replaced (mine certainly did).  Check this post as well as as the ones after it for a summary of what I ran into in regards to the power switch and how it was ultimately fixed.

 

Note that I'm not saying that your 4013 isn't bad - chances are good that it is, and since you're in there anyway and they're cheap, it can't hurt to replace it.  It may not be the sole culprit, however.  Good luck!

 

Thanks much! 

 

The 4013's I ordered came in today.  I swapped the unit and... same problem, though I thought I heard a different noise for the third party psu - like a jacob's ladder, though to be fair I may have had the volume turned up.

 

I also held in the power button for a few seconds then pressed my finger atop each chip. None felt appreciably warm, so I don't think any of the ICs are defective...  well, hopefully not... will have to look up schematics...

 

I will look up that post, simmer, then try out some of the ideas there by this weekend...

[+-^CrossBow^-]

It is a power modded 4port? Can you take pics of the power modification that was done please?