Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Razzie.P]

1 hour ago, jerseystyle said:

 It’s funny to me though that out of the other systems TT was downplaying they’ve all gone out, unlike his console.

 

43 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

 

We are 13 months in since Tommy and Intellivision said these physical boxes were going fast and nearly sold out. But it turns out they are still for sale.

 

I wonder if he thought he had the Manga version of "The Secret" and read it backwards.

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, MattPilz said:

We are 13 months in since Tommy and Intellivision said these physical boxes were going fast and nearly sold out. But it turns out they are still for sale.

Wait a minute... Are you telling me they lied?

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

 

 

I wonder if he thought he had the Manga version of "The Secret" and read it backwards.

No, I just think Tommy didn't believe in his own talent ENOUGH. 🙂

[Matt_B]

3 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

I've heard this "running out the clock" theory, a few times. Is the idea here that IE would continue the pretense of operating, so that injured parties would hold out hope, instead of filing lawsuits? 

 

It looks like the statute of limitations for civil fraud, in California, is 3 years. The federal criminal fraud statutes appear to be in the 5-10 year range. 

 

Considering that IE had the foresight to put that disclaimer on the boxed games, I doubt that there will be any lawsuits.  The republic investors are another story. You would think that a jury might be sympathetic to investors who relied on statements like "The hardware is done" and "We have J. Allard, the Xbox guy!". 

 

Of course, IE would probably just say that the hardware was "functionally" complete and that they did still communicate with J. Allard, etc. Seems like it would be a classic puffery vs. fraud scenario.  I don't wish litigation on anyone but it would be an interesting case. 

By way of comparison, the company behind another notorious crowdfunded failure of a games console - the Smach Z - filed for bankruptcy last year after six years of burning backers' funds and dreams. Suffice it to say that nobody sued them. Many of the same team were spotted back in action with an NFT metaverse project this year; I can't recall which one but you should stay clear of all of those anyway.

 

I'd imagine that the only thing that'd stop the Amico from dragging it out for a similar period is that they've got some pretty hefty loans that are going to start being called in towards the end of this year.

[MattPilz]

4 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

Has that changed now that it’s out? I just got mine and enjoy it, but haven’t been following total numbers or any of that.

I pre-ordered the Playdate hours after it opened for orders and there were already over 29,000 ahead of me. Based on their timelines and estimates it seems they're around 40-50k of units ordered now and the first 30,000 delivered this year yet. And those were all pre-orders for the full amount, $180 + tax. A comparable cost to the original Amico price, but Amico had fewer than 6,000 pre-orders in three years. Playdate did well at not taking itself too seriously and settings expectations low while also embracing media teardowns and sending around units to reporters.

 

I also bought the VCS when it was on sale for $99, a cost that was offset by getting a refund on my Amico founder edition pre-order. A much better investment for me, for now.

[Matt_B]

Playdate was priced to break even at around 20K sales, so the rest was just gravy for them.

 

I can't say I was ever tempted to buy one but it looked like it had better games from developers I'd actually heard of, and you got all of them for free which helped justify the somewhat high price tag. There was also genuine novelty to the controls and, for all its supposed innovation, the Amico never really had that.

[Tommy2D]

2 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I also bought the VCS when it was on sale for $99, a cost that was offset by getting a refund on my Amico founder edition pre-order. A much better investment for me, for now.

I remember seeing those sales.  

 

Are you using the Atari OS much, or did you install another OS?

[MrBeefy]

5 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

No, I just think Tommy didn't believe in his own talent ENOUGH. 🙂

Well he knows that he takes credit for Joey's work.

[MattPilz]

6 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

Are you using the Atari OS much, or did you install another OS?

At the moment I'm keeping it strictly Atari OS and stock hardware. Mostly because I have a NUC (Windows 11) and Mac Mini if I want an ordinary micro computer experience. The native Atari OS and software seems decent to me.

 

But I've also been postponing ordering Atari 50th because, ironically, it's not yet available for VCS but is on every other platform. They've also had some server issues lately, but did resolve them reasonably well. I was impressed with their customer support when I wrote asking for a refund on a duplicate purchase and even on a weekend someone at Atari wrote back on Facebook and email to address it and push out the refund. Customer service goes a long way and it's too bad I saw the opposite with Intellivision--they were quick to respond when I asked to order a FE but never responded when I ultimately asked for a refund.

 

6 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I can't say I was ever tempted to buy one but it looked like it had better games from developers I'd actually heard of, and you got all of them for free which helped justify the somewhat high price tag. There was also genuine novelty to the controls and, for all its supposed innovation, the Amico never really had that.

Best part for me is how well they built the developer side of it and opened it to everyone with a really slick desktop and web-based editor. Someone even made a nice Yahtzee/Farkle

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by MattPilz

[Wayler]

But can you shake your playdate for a dice roll and wait 2 thrilling seconds to see them roll on the screen? And No LEDs? No thanks!

[roots.genoa]

10 hours ago, Matt_B said:

By way of comparison, the company behind another notorious crowdfunded failure of a games console - the Smach Z - filed for bankruptcy last year after six years of burning backers' funds and dreams. Suffice it to say that nobody sued them. Many of the same team were spotted back in action with an NFT metaverse project this year; I can't recall which one but you should stay clear of all of those anyway.

I had never heard of that Smach Z console... I like that name. I'm sure it's not like those modern systems that has players staying lonely in their basements playing hentai porn games. Where can I preorder it?

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

I had never heard of that Smach Z console... I like that name. I'm sure it's not like those modern systems that has players staying lonely in their basements playing hentai porn games. Where can I preorder it?

I think it was missing that special something. Slapping a zombie brand from the 80s onto it might have helped. 😉

[jhd]

19 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

Seems like it would be a classic puffery vs. fraud scenario.  I don't wish litigation on anyone but it would be an interesting case. 

 

I agree but, realistically, who is going to bother to sue a nearly defunct company with effectively no assets? It does not appear that IE has the capacity to hire legal representation, so the best case scenario for the plaintiff would be a default judgement against a corporate shell. 

 

There is a semi-famous Canadian decision where a University Professor sued a publisher for publishing his thesis without permission; it was a straightforward breach of copyright. The only assets that the publisher owned were copies of the unsold book, so the Professor ultimately received a truckload of copies of a book that he did not want.  He was "successful" in the lawsuit, but the victory was purely moral. 

[jerseystyle]

1 hour ago, jhd said:

 

I agree but, realistically, who is going to bother to sue a nearly defunct company with effectively no assets? It does not appear that IE has the capacity to hire legal representation, so the best case scenario for the plaintiff would be a default judgement against a corporate shell. 

 

There is a semi-famous Canadian decision where a University Professor sued a publisher for publishing his thesis without permission; it was a straightforward breach of copyright. The only assets that the publisher owned were copies of the unsold book, so the Professor ultimately received a truckload of copies of a book that he did not want.  He was "successful" in the lawsuit, but the victory was purely moral. 

Maybe someone can sue, win a bunch of empty Amico shells, and then partner with Coleco.

[Steven Pendleton]

Or maybe someone will turn Amico shells into dental equipment like what happened with the Jaguar.

[Bill Loguidice]

21 hours ago, jerseystyle said:

I vaguely remember a year or two ago where were talking about wether Amico would be a success compared to VCS and Playdate. At the time you had doubts about Playdate’s outcome. Has that changed now that it’s out? I just got mine and enjoy it, but haven’t been following total numbers or any of that. It’s funny to me though that out of the other systems TT was downplaying they’ve all gone out, unlike his console.

I'll try and recall my position at the time... I believe I was only comparing the Amico to the VCS. First off, I always assumed both would release, and in fact the Amico would release first. I was definitely wrong about that. I also said that the lifetime VCS sales would have trouble matching even the pre-order sales of the Amico. I don't doubt that the Amico pre-sold more than the VCS sold post release (as in, even to date), but since people canceled their Amico pre-orders in likely large numbers and there's still no release in sight (likely at all), I'll consider that something else I was wrong about, although more on technicality than actual prediction (but still wrong). 

 

In terms of the VCS, it clearly didn't fly off the shelves (as predicted) and has no way to gain momentum to change that (as also predicted). It's a one and done device and I don't see any future for it before the inevitable plug is pulled (although kudos for lasting as long as it did - I didn't think it would). I don't think I was wrong or will be wrong about that position in 2023. With that said, at least there are a solid percentage of VCS owners that seem genuinely happy with the product for reasons of their own (although I do think a percentage of those got in when it was extremely discounted in price). At least in that regard, its modest promise was met and that's something it will always have over devices like the Amico. 

 

I also noted that while I thought the Amico would also have a tough time making any kind of impact, I gave it more of a chance because I felt it was at least offering something reasonably different from anything else out there (thanks primarily to the controller thing and emphasis on local multiplayer). I also respected its focus. While VCS played it pretty safe and thus had no reasonable chance of a breakout success, I thought that what the Amico offered at least gave it a gambler's chance at hitting the relative jackpot (sustainability as a platform), especially if their public metrics for sustainability of the platform were true (and we need to take ANYTHING that was said previously at this point with a grain of salt).

Now, separately, in terms of the Playdate, I felt that it was a nice enough niche idea, but too slavishly followed a purposefully low tech aesthetic. My biggest gripe was the non-backlit screen (which was proven out once people got their units), when we're universally spoiled by great screens in the modern era. As we know, and as we knew at the time, the Playdate somehow, against all odds, had the perfect storm of press and curiosity from even those outside the community. Its presale was unprecedented for the type of product that it was at tens of thousands of units, and it's clear it could have sold more (despite a relatively high price) had more inventory been available. Now, with all of that in mind, I think the bloom is off the rose and the fad has passed. I don't see much of a future for the platform. Will people really still be interested in the platform when they start to ship new units in 2023? I somehow doubt it. It's not like we even hear anything about it anymore, which I think is telling.

[Flojomojo]

3 hours ago, jhd said:

I agree but, realistically, who is going to bother to sue a nearly defunct company with effectively no assets? It does not appear that IE has the capacity to hire legal representation, so the best case scenario for the plaintiff would be a default judgement against a corporate shell. 

 

There is a semi-famous Canadian decision where a University Professor sued a publisher for publishing his thesis without permission; it was a straightforward breach of copyright. The only assets that the publisher owned were copies of the unsold book, so the Professor ultimately received a truckload of copies of a book that he did not want.  He was "successful" in the lawsuit, but the victory was purely moral. 

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that it doesn't have to be that kind of lawsuit, there are other ways for Intellivision to lose more than just reputation and credibility. They still owe money to debtors, and they haven't filed for bankruptcy protection. If Intellivision were found to be in breach of their agreement with Fig or Republic, those companies might be able to take control of some of the money they dispersed. If Intellivision were found to be in violation of SEC laws, say for making repeated deliberate false statements to investors, the officers of the company (not just the limited liability corporations they hide behind) could be personally liable. I doubt the SEC cares whether or not the company has funding remaining when they impose fines and penalties.

 

When he was on here bragging about himself every day, did Tommy Tallarico ever compare himself to Elizabeth Holmes?

[Steven Pendleton]

Don't worry, Intellivision is an American company, so I am sure someone in the US will try to sue them, as that is the way of my people. I'm somewhat surprised nobody has tried to sue them for something already.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Now, separately, in terms of the Playdate, I felt that it was a nice enough niche idea, but too slavishly followed a purposefully low tech aesthetic. My biggest gripe was the non-backlit screen (which was proven out once people got their units), when we're universally spoiled by great screens in the modern era. As we know, and as we knew at the time, the Playdate somehow, against all odds, had the perfect storm of press and curiosity from even those outside the community. Its presale was unprecedented for the type of product that it was at tens of thousands of units, and it's clear it could have sold more (despite a relatively high price) had more inventory been available. Now, with all of that in mind, I think the bloom is off the rose and the fad has passed. I don't see much of a future for the platform. Will people really still be interested in the platform when they start to ship new units in 2023? I somehow doubt it. It's not like we even hear anything about it anymore, which I think is telling.

It was pretty obvious the Playdate had a social media halo effect...    Every day people share things to get likes and retweets and they need a constant supply of new interesting things to share.   Playdate concept was perfect for that "oh look at this adorable thing,  it has a crank!!!"    People liked the idea of Playdate much more than they were destined to like the actual hardware.    

 

It was exactly how the Ouya went down..   it was a social media darling when announced.    Once released the public attitude was "who wants this shit??"

[MrBeefy]

Haven't you heard the big multi million sub YTers talking about Amico!?! They are doing great things and way more popular than VCS or Playdate.

 

 

[rayik]

2 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I also noted that while I thought the Amico would also have a tough time making any kind of impact, I gave it more of a chance because I felt it was at least offering something reasonably different from anything else out there (thanks primarily to the controller thing and emphasis on local multiplayer). I also respected its focus. While VCS played it pretty safe and thus had no reasonable chance of a breakout success, I thought that what the Amico offered at least gave it a gambler's chance at hitting the relative jackpot (sustainability as a platform), especially if their public metrics for sustainability of the platform were true (and we need to take ANYTHING that was said previously at this point with a grain of salt).

 

With what has transpired since then, do you still feel the Amico is reasonably different from anything else out there?

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by rayik

[Bill Loguidice]

51 minutes ago, rayik said:

With what has transpired since then, do you still feel the Amico is reasonably different from anything else out there?

 

 

The joke answer is it's reasonably different from anything else out there because it doesn't actually exist, but the serious answer is that what made it distinctive before would still make it distinctive for the foreseeable future should it actually somehow come into existence. I feel like the controllers and their integration are distinctive enough on their own to offer a different enough play experience from anything else out there (and again, whether that idea would be compelling enough to enough people is a different discussion).

 

With that said - and my concern with anything like this - outside technology marches on. The problem with any niche system is that they already start at a power deficit and the longer they go without being released and/or stagnating, the bigger the technological gap gets. That doesn't always matter as a platform like the Switch proves, but even that is getting pushback and starting to bump up against practical limitations when it comes to game ports. Basically, the more time that passes, the creakier the technology gets and the less compelling other differentiators become. In other words, you can have as clever a gimmick/angle as you want, but at some point that surrounding technology becomes too much of a handicap to overcome. That's another reason why I don't see a future for the VCS, and certainly have concerns about the - at this point - hypothetical Amico, as more time passes. More time passing is NEVER a good thing in the technology world unless you have a product like the Playdate that's by design already obsolete. 

[Rev]

Why does this thread feel like a waiting room for a funeral?

[Pink]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:57 AM, Flojomojo said:

Here’s a hot take: now that they’ve spent all the money, fired all the staff, the face man is an internet laughingstock, and they’ve abandoned all pretense at marketing, promotion, and fundraising, it’s not going to get better. Unless someone can show evidence to the contrary, it seems safe to assume Intellivision brass are just running out the statute of limitations so they don’t get into legal trouble. 

 

Or you can keep your preorder and hope that the sun’ll come out tomorrow. It’s not like they’re going to honor and process a refund request anyway. 

Oh not to worry, we got evidence that they have 25 multi-millionaire investors who all want to invest, along with a "legit billionaire" who LOVES what they're doing! I'm sure the reason we've heard nothing is because these things take a while to finalize and they're probably taking their sweet time to get everything just right 😉 Oh, and the pandemic and chip shortage slow everything down too as well 🙃

 

 

Or if they truly are "smart and successful" like Tommy claims, then that's probably why they never bothered to invest in the first place 😂

 

Or maybe Tommy just made & fabricated this whole thing up, or at least part of it 🤣🤣🤣

 

I'm sure @kevtris could explain as to why building a plant in Texas to manufacture and assemble everything is a completely stupid, unrealistic, cost prohibitive and inefficient idea, but's it's honestly not even worth his time. It'd be like writing an entire novel explaining why it's not a good idea to eat dog poop.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Pink

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, Rev said:

Why does this thread feel like a waiting room for a funeral?

I'd say that we've already moved on to the wake.