Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Tommy2D]

20 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

The Running Man is trademarked. You don't mess with trademarks no matter how generic they might look. The holders are practically obliged to sue you.

 

Also, if you're a small developer, merely defending a lawsuit is quite possibly going to bankrupt you, win or lose. That was the real tragedy of TxK; all the analysis was that Minter would win, but he chose not to fight the case because it would suck up too much of his time and money.

Yeah, just compiling with discovery can be an enormous drain/pain.

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

The Running Man is trademarked. You don't mess with trademarks no matter how generic they might look. The holders are practically obliged to sue you.

 

Also, if you're a small developer, merely defending a lawsuit is quite possibly going to bankrupt you, win or lose. That was the real tragedy of TxK; all the analysis was that Minter would win, but he chose not to fight the case because it would suck up too much of his time and money.

I'm not sure if you checked the Night Stalker footage recently but those are not the Running Man. They are stupidly generic too but not the same. You only need to change the name.

[Matt_B]

12 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I'm not sure if you checked the Night Stalker footage recently but those are not the Running Man. They are stupidly generic too but not the same. You only need to change the name.

You mean Cloudy Mountain, right? The character in Night Stalker looks quite different.

Trademarks work differently to copyright in that the standard is only a likelihood of confusion; things don't need to be exactly the same, just similar enough that people can mix them up and I'd think that the Cloudy Mountain graphics are in that sort of territory. It's pretty obvious that they were made that way in the first place to resemble the Running Man and that'd be a neat design touch for an officially licensed game. It's not something that you'd want in an unlicensed clone though, so they'd either have to change them or do some sort of deal.

 

I'm sure Phil would be amenable to one too. He's just a bit busy in the garage with a soldering iron and a random selection of cogs right now. 😀

[mr_me]

If there was no agreement that assigns Amico Night Stalker copyright to IE, then Digital Eclipse wouldn't need to "have a conversation" to release the game.

[MrBeefy]

39 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

You mean Cloudy Mountain, right? The character in Night Stalker looks quite different.

Trademarks work differently to copyright in that the standard is only a likelihood of confusion; things don't need to be exactly the same, just similar enough that people can mix them up and I'd think that the Cloudy Mountain graphics are in that sort of territory. It's pretty obvious that they were made that way in the first place to resemble the Running Man and that'd be a neat design touch for an officially licensed game. It's not something that you'd want in an unlicensed clone though, so they'd either have to change them or do some sort of deal.

 

I'm sure Phil would be amenable to one too. He's just a bit busy in the garage with a soldering iron and a random selection of cogs right now. 😀

I'm thinking of both and I blew up the Cloudy one and they do have the stupid crab head like the running man. Fill that gap in and it's all good. Lol

[Flojomojo]

3 hours ago, Matt_B said:

Also, if you're a small developer, merely defending a lawsuit is quite possibly going to bankrupt you, win or lose. That was the real tragedy of TxK; all the analysis was that Minter would win, but he chose not to fight the case because it would suck up too much of his time and money.

Atari rattled some sabers but I feel like Jeff prevailed in the end, when they hired him to make Tempest 4000. Was TxK even removed from the Sony store? Before the whole Vita store went away, that is. 

This story seemed very effective in the court of public opinion, regardless of how the thing was settled. “Sue me? They should have hired me!” — and eventually, they did. 
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/txk-dev-on-atari-legal-threats-attack-me-they-should-have-hired-me/

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

If there was no agreement that assigns Amico Night Stalker copyright to IE, then Digital Eclipse wouldn't need to "have a conversation" to release the game.

Judging from that Mika interview, it seems DE would rather have a reputation of being easy to work with. Those 2 games were prominently displayed on many Intellivision promo videos, and are bound to Intellivision in peoples’ minds. 
 

At this point it’s hard to say whether that helps them or hurts them. Also, the cloudy mountain game is very generic and we have many other dungeon shooters to choose from. 
 

I think I’d be more likely to buy the emancipated Amico games if they didn’t have any connection to Intellivision “ding-a-lings,” as that one guy used to call people. 

[Tommy2D]

I'm wondering what the control scheme for Cloudy Mountain would be, on the Amico.  

 

Children of Morta and Gauntlet both play really well with twin-sticks.  I guess that you could use the screen for directional shooting but it doesn't seem ideal. Or maybe the running dude only shoots in one direction?

[Flojomojo]

That’s how it worked on the old intellivision game, Discs of Tron style. You would move with the disc, and use the phone pad for shooting arrows in 8 directions, like a bodged, low-res Robotron. 
 

Twin sticks are much better suited to this kind of game. 
 

Dare I say it? Amico controllers seemed like a bad idea. 

[Matt_B]

9 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Atari rattled some sabers but I feel like Jeff prevailed in the end, when they hired him to make Tempest 4000. Was TxK even removed from the Sony store? Before the whole Vita store went away, that is. 

This story seemed very effective in the court of public opinion, regardless of how the thing was settled. “Sue me? They should have hired me!” — and eventually, they did. 
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/txk-dev-on-atari-legal-threats-attack-me-they-should-have-hired-me/

TxK remained on the Vita store but it was making peanuts there because the Vita was always a bit of a flop. It was the planned ports to other platforms, including PC and PS4, where it could finally make some money, that got pulled.

 

Ultimately, we did get Tempest 4000 out of it, which required Jeff to do a deal with Fred Chesnais of all people. I dare say that his hand was strengthened somewhat by the vehement backlash, but making it an official sequel was to the benefit of both parties. It just took a while for them to see it that way.

I'm sure he never had those kind of problems with Space Giraffe. 😀

 

9 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Judging from that Mika interview, it seems DE would rather have a reputation of being easy to work with. Those 2 games were prominently displayed on many Intellivision promo videos, and are bound to Intellivision in peoples’ minds. 
 

At this point it’s hard to say whether that helps them or hurts them. Also, the cloudy mountain game is very generic and we have many other dungeon shooters to choose from. 
 

I think I’d be more likely to buy the emancipated Amico games if they didn’t have any connection to Intellivision “ding-a-lings,” as that one guy used to call people. 

Yeah, they've been highly professional about all this and obviously don't want to rock the boat. Doing a deal with Phil to make them official is just the price they'd have to pay for those games to come out at all, because otherwise I don't see them wanting to risk it. At least Tommy seems to be out of the picture for now, so they wouldn't have to work with him.

 

Also, if it happens that way they might sell a few copies to the people who put their money down for medallions and NFC cards, because those guys are clearly suckers for anything with an Intellivision badge on it. 😀

 

 

[MrBeefy]

2 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

I'm wondering what the control scheme for Cloudy Mountain would be, on the Amico.  

 

Children of Morta and Gauntlet both play really well with twin-sticks.  I guess that you could use the screen for directional shooting but it doesn't seem ideal. Or maybe the running dude only shoots in one direction?

The game looked like it is suited fine for twin sticks. Same with Night Stalker.

[Astro Rabby]

Wasn't there an Earthworm Jim game announced to be exclusive for this? These new digital consoles always felt like a grift to me anyway.

[mr_me]

7 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

I'm wondering what the control scheme for Cloudy Mountain would be, on the Amico.  

 

Children of Morta and Gauntlet both play really well with twin-sticks.  I guess that you could use the screen for directional shooting but it doesn't seem ideal. Or maybe the running dude only shoots in one direction?

With both Amico Night Stalker and Cloudy Mountain, running, aiming, and shooting are independent actions.

 

7 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

That’s how it worked on the old intellivision game, Discs of Tron style. You would move with the disc, and use the phone pad for shooting arrows in 8 directions, like a bodged, low-res Robotron. 
 

Twin sticks are much better suited to this kind of game. 
 

Dare I say it? Amico controllers seemed like a bad idea. 

That's "Deadly Discs" on Intellivision.  Arcade Discs of Tron used a spinner to aim and trigger to shoot.  Intellivision Night Stalker and AD&D are different than Robotron in that you have very limited bullets/arrows.  The joystick would have to come back to center after each shot.  With AD&D it takes two or three shots to kill an enemy, a button would work better.

 

The trackpad used on Amico controllers is very different than directional buttons.  Aiming and shooting are two different actions with Amico Night Stalker and Cloudy Mountain.  With dual analog controls you could set aiming with a thumbstick and shooting with a finger trigger.  With a trackpad, aiming and shooting can all be done with the same thumb.

 

4 hours ago, Astro Rabby said:

Wasn't there an Earthworm Jim game announced to be exclusive for this? These new digital consoles always felt like a grift to me anyway.

They announced the license but advised it wouldn't be released for at least a year after the system.  There was only some high level preliminary design and concept animation shown, game development wasn't expected until after system release, which never happened.

Edited November 17, 2022 by mr_me

[Rowsdower70]

8 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

The game looked like it is suited fine for twin sticks. Same with Night Stalker.

You're forcing me to agree with Mr Me here.
Have you ever even played those games?   I'm going to guess by your declaration that twin sticks would work you've never touched either game on Intellivision.
Not only are neither "suited fine" for twin sticks but they wouldn't even be somewhat functional. 

[Rowsdower70]

11 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

11 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

 

Twin sticks are much better suited to this kind of game. 
 

 

 

And you sound like you've played or at least watched the game.   Yet you think Twin sticks would be better suited. 
Baffling.
 

[MrBeefy]

20 minutes ago, Rowsdower70 said:

You're forcing me to agree with Mr Me here.
Have you ever even played those games?   I'm going to guess by your declaration that twin sticks would work you've never touched either game on Intellivision.
Not only are neither "suited fine" for twin sticks but they wouldn't even be somewhat functional. 

Have you played any modern dungeon crawler? You do know they shot in more than four directions right? If you need a list of games that existed and played well since 1982 I could help you with that.

 

Besides the screen functions as an analogue joystick with the same amount of turning. So the Amico controllers are just as crap as four or 8 directions.

 

And yeah I've played both games. They are okay. If you want Night Stalker to just be in four directions the Amico controller will suck for that. Now if you want to be able to snipe people at an angle in a maze then yeah twin sticks will work as well as the touchscreen.

 

You might want to recheck the gameplay of these games. They are analogue control ready 100%. 

 

[MrBeefy]

9 hours ago, Astro Rabby said:

Wasn't there an Earthworm Jim game announced to be exclusive for this? These new digital consoles always felt like a grift to me anyway.

Not being worked on and I wouldn't hold out hope.

 

Sad thing is this should have been an "easy" console to produce. It's just a basic android box. They just tried to do to much with controllers and all the other unnecessary fluff. Complete botched and mismanagement. They blew through $17 million and have nothing but promises of games to show for it.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, Rowsdower70 said:

You're forcing me to agree with Mr Me here.
Have you ever even played those games?   I'm going to guess by your declaration that twin sticks would work you've never touched either game on Intellivision.
Not only are neither "suited fine" for twin sticks but they wouldn't even be somewhat functional. 

What I said is the analog stick can aim and trigger/shoulder to shoot.  Might not be as good as a trackpad but it can work.

[Tommy2D]

17 minutes ago, mr_me said:

What I said is the analog stick can aim and trigger/shoulder to shoot.  Might not be as good as a trackpad but it can work.

I see your point about the limited ammo.  In that case, yeah, one stick for character movement, the other for weapon aiming and a trigger to shoot. 

[Flojomojo]

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

With both Amico Night Stalker and Cloudy Mountain, running, aiming, and shooting are independent actions.

 

That's "Deadly Discs" on Intellivision.  Arcade Discs of Tron used a spinner to aim and trigger to shoot.  Intellivision Night Stalker and AD&D are different than Robotron in that you have very limited bullets/arrows.  The joystick would have to come back to center after each shot.  With AD&D it takes two or three shots to kill an enemy, a button would work better.

 

The trackpad used on Amico controllers is very different than directional buttons.  Aiming and shooting are two different actions with Amico Night Stalker and Cloudy Mountain.  With dual analog controls you could set aiming with a thumbstick and shooting with a finger trigger.  With a trackpad, aiming and shooting can all be done with the same thumb.

You're right, I confused the names. It's been a while, and all the TRON games are 40 years old. Thanks for the correction. 

The original game is build around discrete buttons on the phone pad, that you push very deliberately. The shooting is not a fast "twitchy" action. You must wait for your disc to hit something and return to you before you can throw it again. 

 

2 hours ago, Rowsdower70 said:

You're forcing me to agree with Mr Me here.
Have you ever even played those games?   I'm going to guess by your declaration that twin sticks would work you've never touched either game on Intellivision.
Not only are neither "suited fine" for twin sticks but they wouldn't even be somewhat functional. 

No, I had both cartridges for both of them long ago. I remembered them somewhat fondly, until my impressions of Intellivision were sullied by the new brand owners. 

2 hours ago, Rowsdower70 said:

And you sound like you've played or at least watched the game.   Yet you think Twin sticks would be better suited. 
Baffling.

Yeah, I'm a real mystery. This might help: I've played a lot of twin stick shooters by small indie developers on every modern platform, and I think this control method is well suited to this STYLE of game. The Mike Mika remakes are "reimaginings," not slavish replicas of the 1982 originals. I'd much rather play a new game in the STYLE and SPIRIT of the old game, but without the limitations of 1979 Mattel game design and technology. 

 

The original Night Stalker controls were particularly clunky:

"NOTE: The man can run and shoot, but he cannot do both at once! Also you can only fire off a shot when the man is standing still and he has the weapon." 

 

The Amico controller doesn't have the raised buttons for feedback like the original does. I'd personally rather not play this style of game with a touchscreen if there are only 4 directions of slow shooting action.

 

Intellivision Products tried to port the old game modern touch screen controls twice (once on their own, and once with VH1 branding), but it utterly failed both times. Nobody even bothered to review them. At the time, it felt as though I might have been the only Intellivision player to download them. They didn't last long. 

https://www.metacritic.com/game/ios/vh1-classic-presents-intellivision-for-ipad

https://toucharcade.com/2010/04/07/intellivision-released-for-iphone-and-ipod-touch/

 

 

I'll take it a step further: in 2022, it's hard to get me interested in single-screen score-chasing gameplay. To make this kind of loop more interesting, they could add meta game "roguelike" elements to it, where you advance and progress as you play through otherwise repetitive levels. 

 

Just one of dozens of examples:

 

Yes, it looks far more frantic and hyperactive than the old Mattel games, but it's more in line with the kind of games that Mike Mika has been developing in the last decade. 

[MrBeefy]

50 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

 

Just one of dozens of examples:

 

Yes, it looks far more frantic and hyperactive than the old Mattel games, but it's more in line with the kind of games that Mike Mika has been developing in the last decade. 

Idk that looks Switch rapey...

 

 

[Flojomojo]

How about Wayward Souls 

 

or Vampire Survivors. You know, to play with grandma and the kids. 

 

 

[MrBeefy]

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

How about Wayward Souls 

 

or Vampire Survivors. You know, to play with grandma and the kids. 

 

 

Too gaming racist.

[Flojomojo]

I know you're quoting mister popular, but why was that nonsense allowed and tolerated? It's so stupid and offensive. 

[Wayler]

So it only took 167 pages for someone to agree with Mr Me. 

 

Since we are making great pace here, I'll make a wild prediction that on page 313 the FFC certs are truly resolved and of course, can't wait for the outcome of "in a few weeks" on page 7175.

[Flojomojo]