Atari 2600 FPGA and Harmony Cart Encore

[Marlosrob]

Good afternoon. I have an Atari 2600 in FPGA with expansion for original cartridges (it's MISTer style, but similar). I bought a Harmony Encore cartridge to run DPC+ homebrew games. But the HArmony cartridge does not work well with the system. It just turns on and the logo appears rotating on the screen. Sometimes it doesn't turn on. I've tried to update the firmware without success. PS. I haven't tested it on a real Atari yet. Any tips?

[+batari]

Can you provide more info about this device?

 

If this device "dumps" the cartridge into its internal memory first instead of actively interacting with the cartridge like a real console does, then this device will never work with Harmony (or any other modern flashcart.) So hopefully, that is not how this device operates. As long as it interacts with the cartridge like a real console, I am sure we can get to the bottom of this.

[Marlosrob]

So, it is the Multicore 2+ FPGA device produced by Victor Trucco. The Atari 2600 core it uses is based on MISTer's Atari 2600 core. The expansion made by him accepts real cartridges, so much so that UNOcart works perfectly, but HArmony turns on when it wants and doesn't access the SD card. I thought it might even be the power supply and an insufficient electrical current.

[+batari]

OK, it sounds like it actually communicates in real time with the console.

 

The infinite spinning logo can have a number of causes. An issue with the SD card is one - if the card is not making good contact, the formatting isn't right or something, this can happen.

 

It can also happen if the Harmony cart is not making good contact with the cartridge slot. I would clean the contacts of the cart and the slot with some isopropyl alcohol and try reinserting a few times. This could also cause a boot issue.

Another reason I can think of for not getting past the rotating logo could be if the FPGA isn't putting the bus in a high impedance state when the data bus isn't being driven. A true high impedance state, as a real console does, is necessary for proper function of the Harmony cart. If the FPGA uses bus hold circuitry or the device has resistors on the bus then these can interfere with proper operation.

 

One thing you can try is to flash the games directly to the cartridge memory using the development tab in the Harmony programming software. I'd start with a simple game, like something 4k or 8k, then try an ARM game. Even if the menu won't come up, the games may be playable this way.

[Marlosrob]

Unfortunately I couldn't find the instructions on how to flash a single game in the harmony cart. Where can I be helped?

[Marlosrob]

It worked with flash from the atlantis games (4k) and the new pac man (8k). I tried to flash it with the galagon DEMO, Stella informs it to be a CDFJ type rom, but in the harmony programming tool this item does not appear in the sub-menu,

[+batari]

54 minutes ago, Marlosrob said:

It worked with flash from the atlantis games (4k) and the new pac man (8k). I tried to flash it with the galagon DEMO, Stella informs it to be a CDFJ type rom, but in the harmony programming tool this item does not appear in the sub-menu,

In the Harmony programming tool, there should be a setting for "custom" bankswitching, and CDFJ is of that type. All "custom" means is that the bankswitch code is integrated into the ROM itself.

 

If that isn't working, for most CDFJ and DPC+ ROMs, you can upload these games using the main screen under the EEPROM loader instead, because of the bankswitch code being in the ROM itself.

[Marlosrob]

So my friend. It stopped working again, and I cleaned the contacts and immersed both the cartridge board and the expansion board in isopropyl alcohol and let it rest. As I don't have a real Atari 2600 I can't test the Harmony cartridge. Is there any testing tool to verify that the cartridge circuits are all functional? Thanks again friend.

[orange808]

Did you ask Trucco if his fork of MiSTer and the cart add-on supports the Harmony?

 

Ask Victor what his machine supports first. If he can show you that it does, that's when you should start asking about troubleshooting. And, the most likely problem is Trucco's machine and the ported FPGA core software emulator, so he should be your first stop for support.

 

 

[Marlosrob]

So, trucco has a video where he tests the Multicore system with UNOcart, but in fact he told me that with HARMONY he had not done any pilot test.

[orange808]

26 minutes ago, Marlosrob said:

So, trucco has a video where he tests the Multicore system with UNOcart, but in fact he told me that with HARMONY he had not done any pilot test.

Well, it's a hobby project, so I understand if he doesn't support flash carts. That's fine. He's never obligated to do more work. It's his project.

 

On the other hand, he is obligated to transparency for his customers, so Trucco should do some testing--or partner with someone else to investigate. Harmony cart technology is ubiquitous with Atari 2600 gaming these days, so saying "untested" isn't enough information for paying customers.

[+batari]

1 hour ago, Marlosrob said:

So my friend. It stopped working again, and I cleaned the contacts and immersed both the cartridge board and the expansion board in isopropyl alcohol and let it rest. As I don't have a real Atari 2600 I can't test the Harmony cartridge. Is there any testing tool to verify that the cartridge circuits are all functional? Thanks again friend.

If the 4k and 8k games were working and you were able to update firmware, then it seems likely that the rest of the cart is also working as designed. It is sounding like the FPGA core in this device is not 100% compatible?

 

If I knew more about any limitations or incompatibilities it might have, it might be possible to support the device, or perhaps to work with the designer to know what might need to be changed in the core to get the Harmony working.

[Marlosrob]

So guys, this is actually extreme curiosity on my part and nothing more. I can just buy an Atari 2600, which is even cheaper than the Harmony cartridge and that would solve my problems. Or simply play the most capable homebrew games on emulators, but for a technical reason of knowing how to solve it, I insist on this question and will look for the answer.

[Marlosrob]

About Multicore, it is open hardware and in constant development, so the thing won't work is part of the process and everyone who bought the kit knows that.

[orange808]

I do not agree that all people purchasing units will be fully educated on the technical details of legacy and new Atari carts. Buyers should be told what works and what does not.

 

If accurate emulation support for both legacy and new Atari 2600 carts and hardware add-ons can be implemented, I would be very interested in purchasing a unit. A true 99% 2600 FPGA emulation replacement unit with plug and play HDMI output and support for real physical carts would be very appealing to this community. Hooking up an Atari 2600 to a modern television is not easy and old machines inherently develop reliability issues. Without digging too deep, I think the MiSTer people made their feelings for new Atari software and supporting physical media very clear, so this probably has to happen outside their circle.

 

[Marlosrob]

I will be happy to collaborate if the solution of this case is found

[Keatah]

Getting modern software into these FPGA simulations is just as challenging as hooking up a real vintage console to a modern TV.

 

The FPGA simulations & recreations aren't 100%, but, rather 99%. And it seems things like Harmony go right up the edge of what's doable on real hardware. That 1% difference is make or break.

 

34 minutes ago, orange808 said:

Without digging too deep, I think the MiSTer people made their feelings for new Atari software and supporting physical media very clear, so this probably has to happen outside their circle.

What did they say?

[orange808]

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

What did they say?

linky:  

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/321006-arm-basedenhanced-atari-development-mister-fpga-and-preservation/?do=findComment&comment=4831102

[M-S]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:22 PM, orange808 said:

linky:  

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/321006-arm-basedenhanced-atari-development-mister-fpga-and-preservation/?do=findComment&comment=4831102

That's a very stupid and out of touch thing to say in a community that likes original hardware so much. It's unfortunate to hear that the developers of the Atari cores for MISTer are the kind of programmers that want everything else to work perfectly with their software and get mad once they find something that doesn't. They are not different from emulator developers for Raspberry Pi's, only now they are working with top notch technology. And it seems like core developers for other systems aren't that different. All of the interest I had in this project went away after hearing about things like that.

After I finish talking about existing modern clone consoles I'm going to make some threads about past examples, modern prototypes and technical possibilities of clone systems, including Atari, of course.

[Keatah]

Hubris is running high. There's a huge misunderstanding of what the Harmony/ARM subsystem means to the 2600 user base. There's butthurt because the DE10 nano may not be the right kit to emulate such an add-on. Not only that, the A2600 core isn't architected to handle ARM-enhanced games either.

 

Never should game code or original hardware be modified to work on a Software Emulator or an FPGA Simulation. The emulator must correctly duplicate the actions of the emulated hardware. If it doesn't it's a fail.

 

Interesting, well-playing, important games have been developed for Harmony/ARM. And more in the works. So whoever is denouncing it needs to broaden their perspective and become non-lazy.

[youxia]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:29 AM, orange808 said:

I think the MiSTer people made their feelings for new Atari software and supporting physical media very clear

There are no "MiSTer people", Kitrinx is not a spokesman for MiSTer, and people change their minds all the time too, so please stop spreading FUD. There's no need for drama and bad blood in our niche communities.

 

Let me quote myself again:

To recap: it's an open source project and anybody - you included - is welcome to do whatever they please to contribute to it, that includes writing a completely new core from scratch, making a cart adapter, whatever. I'm sure if the legwork was done it would be welcomed with open arms.

 

Case in point: Sorgelig said once that current MSX core (running games from vhds only) is enough - for the time being at least - but somebody else (Molekula) came around and knocked out a brand new MSX1 core which runs carts and tapes, for those who like this sort of stuff. Maybe somebody else will add MSX2 with floppy support, who knows, it's a collaborative WIP after all.

[orange808]

Let me grab my laughing shoes.

[youxia]

Yep, whatever. I'm not interested in arguing with a person who clearly has a bone to pick with some of the "MiSTer people". I'm simply posting to present another take on this for the sake of lurkers and newcomers.

 

 

[orange808]

20 minutes ago, youxia said:

Yep, whatever. I'm not interested in arguing with a person who clearly has a bone to pick with some of the "MiSTer people". I'm simply posting to present another take on this for the sake of lurkers and newcomers.

 

 

And, trying to obfuscate what was already said in the process. That's why I keep quoting it.

[Marlosrob]

There is something important that I forgot to explain here: multicore loads Atari games through the FPGA Loader without expansion, most of them just don't load the exclusive Harmony games, that's why I bought the cartridge. And the output is in HDMI, PERFECT SOUND AND IMAGE. I ask my colleagues again if there is any test tool that checks the HAmony Cart circuits, I'm afraid I've damaged it with everything that happened.