New TV

[+cubanismo]

Just wanted to share the joy: A few days ago, I drove 5 hours round trip (including several stops on the side of the freeway on the way back to retie knots holding things in place) to pick up my new CRT TV: A Sony Trinitron KV-36FV1. At 236lbs, this thing is a beast. Pictures don't really do the in-person experience of seeing the display justice, but here are a few anyway:

 

 

 

While Gravitic Mines, T2K, Rayman, and all the other usual suspects already look very nice, and the phosphors are still bright and crispy as it was apparently very lightly used, it still needs to be properly calibrated (How's that 240p test suite port coming along @BitJag?), and moved up those stairs in the background when my back has recovered enough, but my plan is to make this the centerpiece of a new gaming nook, compete with some era-appropriate audio equipment and maybe a few other systems. I'm eyeing a Sega Master System with the 3D glasses, for example, and, because my masochism has no limits apparently, I'm on the lookout for a Nuon if anyone has leads there. Generally looking to try out various CRT-based systems I didn't get a chance to play as a kid. I had an SNES and Saturn, and many friends had Genesis and later N64, so I've had my fill of those. For now though, I've just plopped my gaming beanbag chair down in the entryway and I've been enjoying some large-screen CRT gaming with the Jag.

[+Sauron]

Back in the day (early 2000s) I had the 32-inch version of that model. It was a fantastic TV, and everything looked great on it, even DVDs. Speaking of which, it had a special 16:9 mode that gave you added resolution for DVDs that used anamorphic video. But yes, those suckers were extremely heavy. I remember almost killing myself trying to move my 32-inch model. It would be nice to find a smaller Trinitron TV to use for my Jag, but that seems to be incredibly difficult now.

[+cubanismo]

20 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Speaking of which, it had a special 16:9 mode that gave you added resolution for DVDs that used anamorphic video.

I don't think mine has that. There were a bunch of Trinitron revisions with separate features according to Wikipedia. I do plan on hooking up my PS2 with component cables at some point though to watch old DVDs on it.

[+Sauron]

21 hours ago, cubanismo said:

I don't think mine has that. There were a bunch of Trinitron revisions with separate features according to Wikipedia. I do plan on hooking up my PS2 with component cables at some point though to watch old DVDs on it.

Isn't that a WEGA TV? I thought they included that mode on all of their WEGA units. Regardless though, you'll enjoy excellent picture quality even without it.

 

 

[Punisher5.0]

Cant go wrong with a Trinitron! The picture quality is fantastic through component. Congrats on the pick up

[+cubanismo]

Following up with some more CRT porn, I've more or less completed the setup I had in mind via thrift store finds:

 

 

Got this old entertainment center for $40 + a dollars worth of replacement shelf pegs from the local hardware store, an Onkyo receiver with S-Video+Component+composite video and analog+digital (optical and coax) audio input for another $40 (no remote for now), and some cheap Aiwa speakers for $10. I'm still keeping my eye open for some bigger speakers, but these sound a lot better than the TV's built in ones already. The Tempest 3000 and 2000 soundtracks are being enjoyed properly now, with some real bass and range.

 

I splurged on a Nuon from eBay and picked up the controller from a forum member here at a terrible but at least slightly below market price, restored an old fat PS2 I'd had sitting around unused for a while, set up FreeMcBoot and OPL on it, and repaired both of the controllers I had, as their flex membranes had gone bad since I last used them (Here's a great youtube video covering this repair). Then I threw in one of my extra Jaguars, and moved my Saturn here from my smaller CRT setup in my office, as that one was getting crowded.

 

Finally, I was fortunate enough to get two of my neighbors and one of their kids to help me move the Trinitron up that flight of stairs today. It took 3 of us plus one more spotting to go about 3 steps at a time. These things truly are beasts. Everyone appears to have survived with intact backs for now though.

 

All that's left is to properly calibrate the TV's picture, RGB mod it, and get an SCART switchbox and cables to get the optimal picture from the Jaguar and Saturn, as they're both using S-Video right now. General consensus seems to be it's hard to tell the difference between component and RGB from the PS2, so I'll probably just leave that on component, and Nuon renders and outputs YUV natively (Because everything about Nuon has to be weird), so component is definitely where it's at for that one. Currently the TV bows a bit vertically, so I'm going to have to tweak the yoke a bit from what I've read to get it properly aligned, but it's nothing unbearable as-is. I've been playing with it like this for about a month now without getting annoyed, but perfection is always the goal. With that in mind, still waiting for that Jaguar port of the 240p test suite @BitJag, as despite having all these systems, I don't have any that run a version of it.

 

As it stands, some serious CRT gaming is going to commence this evening!

[JagChris]

What's cool about TV s like that is if anyone tried to steal it you can catch them half a block down the road after their back goes out. If not outright crushed by it.

[Editorb]

The Saga of the Stairs reminds me of procuring a Sony KV-32S42 in late 2000. We were driving a '96 Cavalier coupe and hadn't considered if it would fit. The employee removed the box and we managed to wrestle it into back seat. Getting that 150-pound behemoth was an adventure, and I had many (fortunately unrealized) premonitions about dropping it on concrete. In hindsight, I should have buckled it into front seat and made wife ride in back. It's still my retro-gaming CRT, although it's gotten less use since I decided PS3 was retro a month about and bought one. HD is pretty neato.

[Isgoed]

17 hours ago, cubanismo said:

Following up with some more CRT porn, I've more or less completed the setup I had in mind via thrift store finds:

 

 

Got this old entertainment center for $40 + a dollars worth of replacement shelf pegs from the local hardware store, an Onkyo receiver with S-Video+Component+composite video and analog+digital (optical and coax) audio input for another $40 (no remote for now), and some cheap Aiwa speakers for $10. I'm still keeping my eye open for some bigger speakers, but these sound a lot better than the TV's built in ones already. The Tempest 3000 and 2000 soundtracks are being enjoyed properly now, with some real bass and range.

 

I splurged on a Nuon from eBay and picked up the controller from a forum member here at a terrible but at least slightly below market price, restored an old fat PS2 I'd had sitting around unused for a while, set up FreeMcBoot and OPL on it, and repaired both of the controllers I had, as their flex membranes had gone bad since I last used them (Here's a great youtube video covering this repair). Then I threw in one of my extra Jaguars, and moved my Saturn here from my smaller CRT setup in my office, as that one was getting crowded.

 

Finally, I was fortunate enough to get two of my neighbors and one of their kids to help me move the Trinitron up that flight of stairs today. It took 3 of us plus one more spotting to go about 3 steps at a time. These things truly are beasts. Everyone appears to have survived with intact backs for now though.

 

All that's left is to properly calibrate the TV's picture, RGB mod it, and get an SCART switchbox and cables to get the optimal picture from the Jaguar and Saturn, as they're both using S-Video right now. General consensus seems to be it's hard to tell the difference between component and RGB from the PS2, so I'll probably just leave that on component, and Nuon renders and outputs YUV natively (Because everything about Nuon has to be weird), so component is definitely where it's at for that one. Currently the TV bows a bit vertically, so I'm going to have to tweak the yoke a bit from what I've read to get it properly aligned, but it's nothing unbearable as-is. I've been playing with it like this for about a month now without getting annoyed, but perfection is always the goal. With that in mind, still waiting for that Jaguar port of the 240p test suite @BitJag, as despite having all these systems, I don't have any that run a version of it.

 

As it stands, some serious CRT gaming is going to commence this evening!

That's a great setup!

 

If the picture is not bad enough to -like you said- annoy me, I probably would leave it as it is.

Tilting the yoke is a precise job and it might get worse, or maybe you will succeed with it.

[Punisher5.0]

On 9/24/2022 at 7:18 PM, cubanismo said:

Following up with some more CRT porn, I've more or less completed the setup I had in mind via thrift store finds:

 

 

Got this old entertainment center for $40 + a dollars worth of replacement shelf pegs from the local hardware store, an Onkyo receiver with S-Video+Component+composite video and analog+digital (optical and coax) audio input for another $40 (no remote for now), and some cheap Aiwa speakers for $10. I'm still keeping my eye open for some bigger speakers, but these sound a lot better than the TV's built in ones already. The Tempest 3000 and 2000 soundtracks are being enjoyed properly now, with some real bass and range.

 

I splurged on a Nuon from eBay and picked up the controller from a forum member here at a terrible but at least slightly below market price, restored an old fat PS2 I'd had sitting around unused for a while, set up FreeMcBoot and OPL on it, and repaired both of the controllers I had, as their flex membranes had gone bad since I last used them (Here's a great youtube video covering this repair). Then I threw in one of my extra Jaguars, and moved my Saturn here from my smaller CRT setup in my office, as that one was getting crowded.

 

Finally, I was fortunate enough to get two of my neighbors and one of their kids to help me move the Trinitron up that flight of stairs today. It took 3 of us plus one more spotting to go about 3 steps at a time. These things truly are beasts. Everyone appears to have survived with intact backs for now though.

 

All that's left is to properly calibrate the TV's picture, RGB mod it, and get an SCART switchbox and cables to get the optimal picture from the Jaguar and Saturn, as they're both using S-Video right now. General consensus seems to be it's hard to tell the difference between component and RGB from the PS2, so I'll probably just leave that on component, and Nuon renders and outputs YUV natively (Because everything about Nuon has to be weird), so component is definitely where it's at for that one. Currently the TV bows a bit vertically, so I'm going to have to tweak the yoke a bit from what I've read to get it properly aligned, but it's nothing unbearable as-is. I've been playing with it like this for about a month now without getting annoyed, but perfection is always the goal. With that in mind, still waiting for that Jaguar port of the 240p test suite @BitJag, as despite having all these systems, I don't have any that run a version of it.

 

As it stands, some serious CRT gaming is going to commence this evening!

If you have the remote for it then Id try tweaking it through the service menu first. If you don't then look around for an older Sony remote. All of mine work with each other.

[+BitJag]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:18 PM, cubanismo said:

With that in mind, still waiting for that Jaguar port of the 240p test suite @BitJag, as despite having all these systems, I don't have any that run a version of it.

Working on it.  In talks with the 240p Test Suite people on publishing the code as it is now publicly.  Because a large portion of the code is based of the Megadrive version, and I'm using art assets produced be someone else, I'm making sure I'm not stepping on anyone's toes or doing something that would offend.

[+cubanismo]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:48 AM, Punisher5.0 said:

If you have the remote for it then Id try tweaking it through the service menu first. If you don't then look around for an older Sony remote. All of mine work with each other.

I do have the original remote, which accounted for a significant portion of the very low price apparently. I have the service manual downloaded, and worked through all the service menus, fixing the picture up as much as I could that way. It doesn't affect vertical bowing at all though. Even though it's not terrible, I'm just not the kind of guy that will be able to resist opening things and poking at it if I can.

[Austin]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:18 PM, cubanismo said:

All that's left is to properly calibrate the TV's picture, RGB mod it, and get an SCART switchbox and cables to get the optimal picture from the Jaguar and Saturn, as they're both using S-Video right now.

RGB modding that thing will probably be hell. I use one of these and it works great (RGB -> Component): https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/rgb2comp.

On 8/12/2022 at 6:10 PM, Sauron said:

Back in the day (early 2000s) I had the 32-inch version of that model. It was a fantastic TV, and everything looked great on it, even DVDs. Speaking of which, it had a special 16:9 mode that gave you added resolution for DVDs that used anamorphic video. But yes, those suckers were extremely heavy. I remember almost killing myself trying to move my 32-inch model. It would be nice to find a smaller Trinitron TV to use for my Jag, but that seems to be incredibly difficult now.

I am pretty sure I have the same set you're talking about. The widescreen mode is interesting, especially if I feel experimental and hook something up that's actually widescreen (like the Wii U).

On 8/13/2022 at 3:47 PM, Sauron said:

Isn't that a WEGA TV? I thought they included that mode on all of their WEGA units. Regardless though, you'll enjoy excellent picture quality even without it.

His TV looks like an older model so that's likely why the feature's not there.

 

[+cubanismo]

59 minutes ago, Austin said:

RGB modding that thing will probably be hell. I use one of these and it works great (RGB -> Component)

I've had a look at the schematics. It's not that bad at all. A lot of these Trinitron sets use very similar jungle chips, and there are a bunch of YouTube videos walking through the modifications needed.

[youxia]

I wouldn't bother with RGB modding if it already has component. The difference is minuscule, and there's always the risk of upsetting something inside and ending up with a worse result.

 

The same goes for tweaking for a "perfect" image, which is a kind of oxymoron when it comes to CRTs. I'm usually happy with having 90-95% okay IQ, because chasing that remaining few percent can be a rabbit hole - you get one thing right and two others will go out of whack. And if you have a lot of systems, then settling for some "good enough" median is a must, otherwise that hole can get really deep

Edited October 7, 2022 by youxia

[Editorb]

On 10/6/2022 at 3:05 PM, cubanismo said:

I've had a look at the schematics. It's not that bad at all. A lot of these Trinitron sets use very similar jungle chips, and there are a bunch of YouTube videos walking through the modifications needed.

You appear to well versed in what you're doing, but I would feel remiss if I failed to ask: You know how to discharge the thingamabob that can zap you good? (I am clearly unqualified to open CRTs; alls I knows about them is there's a kablammamizer in there.)

[+cubanismo]

6 hours ago, Editorb said:

You appear to well versed in what you're doing

I'm glad it sounds that way 😁

 

6 hours ago, Editorb said:

You know how to discharge the thingamabob that can zap you good?

I don't, and I don't know much more than you about it at the moment other than it's something to do with capacitors or some inherent capacitance of the tube itself (Do I still sound like I know what I'm doing?). I'll do some more research before I crack'er open though. It's not gonna be this month, likely not even this year. I'm too busy messing with Nuon stuff and real life.

 

21 hours ago, youxia said:

I wouldn't bother with RGB modding if it already has component. The difference is minuscule, and there's always the risk of upsetting something inside and ending up with a worse result.

I hear you guys, I really do, and I know it's sound advice. I even appreciate you looking out for me and/or the TV.

 

But I mean... you're talking to the guy that looked at Skunkboards and the imminent arrival of GameDrives and said to himself, "What I really need to do here is waste a year learning to build these so I can put one more EEPROM on them... and make them purple!" This TV's getting opened at some point.

 

To poorly justify RGB: I can still get SCART cables for Jaguar (Or trivially build my own RGB adapter by tweaking my VGA out board that I'm really gonna gerber out and fab one day so I can stop using the stupid prototype one that blocks the serial port. I think I finished the design over Thanksgiving last year, and just haven't brought myself to tweak the last few bits before sending it off yet, to give you some idea of the severity of my backlog of projects and resulting timescales we're talking about here) and Saturn. The good RGB->component adapters cost real money last I checked, and require external power. But really, it's just that I like fiddling with things.

[Gummy Bear]

11 hours ago, cubanismo said:

I'm glad it sounds that way 😁 I don't, and I don't know much more than you about it at the moment other than it's something to do with capacitors or some inherent capacitance of the tube itself (Do I still sound like I know what I'm doing?).

Yes indeed. 

The average CRT can hold a charge in the tens of thousands of volts for weeks after the machine has been switched off. 

 

You can discharge it through the flyback with a flat blade screwdriver and some wire. 

 

Get some wire, at least AWG16, and strip a good 3 inches or so from one end. 

Wrap that end around the metal of a long, flat bladed screwdriver. You can tape it as well if you feel the need. 

 

Strip the other end and attach it to the metal frame of the CRT. Use an existing screw point. 

 

Put your off hand in your pocket. 

Hold the screwdriver at arm's length, making sure you only touch the handle, and gently move the blade up under the rubber cup that is connected to the tube. 

 

Be careful not to scratch the coating on the tube.

 

When you hit the electrode, you should hear a loud 'twang!' as it dumps its charge into the frame. 

 

If you don't hear anything and you know for a fact that your blade is touching the metal contact under the cup, is safe to assume that your CRT is one of the rare, self discharging types that appeared later. 

[Zerosquare]

And in video form (he's using a fancy probe instead of a screwdriver, but the process is the same):

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Zerosquare

[Gummy Bear]

5 hours ago, Zerosquare said:

And in video form (he's using a fancy probe instead of a screwdriver, but the process is the same):

 

Yeah that was probably quicker than writing all that spiel. Lol

 

I used to have a big sit-down arcade cabinet about 15 years ago. 

It had a whopping big 36 inch Hantarex Polo II monitor. 

Very big, very cool, but very flaky. 

I had to pull out the monitor chassis on several occasions and became a dab hand at it.