Newell Atari 800 RAMROD Personality Board

[reifsnyderb]

Before I get too involved in the the RAMROD reproduction, I wanted to finish the prototype of this card.

 

Unless I think of something else, the silkscreen is done.  I figured I'd call the RAMROM 2022 so there's no confusion.  It's a generic name but I was never too creative in the naming department.

 

I also added some pins for external banking of the flash chip if somebody wants to desecrate the hallowed ground of the Atari 800 by drilling holes.  😜    (There are 4 banks available.)  Also, /s6 and /s7 now have pins on them in the event somebody wants to connect those select lines to another card as /s6 and /s7 are not available on any other slot.

 

A configuration table was added to the back of the card as well.  With the exception of 100nF capacitors, all capacitors values are now labeled.  The chips also have their basic number underneath them as I like to put those numbers on them to make it easier to solder the board.  (i.e.  08 for a 74LS08 or 74F08, LS04 for the 74LS04 chip)  The Atari ROM sockets are labeled as well.

 

If you aren't using the DS1210 (or equivalent) for a battery backed-up RAM, JP1 and JP2 solder jumpers need soldered.

 

 

 

I'll probably think of a few more minor silkscreen changes yet.  (i.e.  See if there is an equivalent for the DS1210 and, if so, put the chip number on the board.)  It may be a couple weeks until I order boards to see if this works as planned.

 

 

 

 

 

[joeventura]

16 hours ago, Stephen said:

Why do you want it recapped?  Is anything visibly bulging or leaking?  Please do not fall for the internet hype where everything needs recapped as maintenance as it is 100% not true.

WHAT HE SAID!!!

[joeventura]

17 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

Before I get too involved in the the RAMROD reproduction, I wanted to finish the prototype of this card.

 

Unless I think of something else, the silkscreen is done.  I figured I'd call the RAMROM 2022 so there's no confusion.  It's a generic name but I was never too creative in the naming department.

 

I also added some pins for external banking of the flash chip if somebody wants to desecrate the hallowed ground of the Atari 800 by drilling holes.  😜    (There are 4 banks available.)  Also, /s6 and /s7 now have pins on them in the event somebody wants to connect those select lines to another card as /s6 and /s7 are not available on any other slot.

 

A configuration table was added to the back of the card as well.  With the exception of 100nF capacitors, all capacitors values are now labeled.  The chips also have their basic number underneath them as I like to put those numbers on them to make it easier to solder the board.  (i.e.  08 for a 74LS08 or 74F08, LS04 for the 74LS04 chip)  The Atari ROM sockets are labeled as well.

 

If you aren't using the DS1210 (or equivalent) for a battery backed-up RAM, JP1 and JP2 solder jumpers need soldered.

 

 

 

I'll probably think of a few more minor silkscreen changes yet.  (i.e.  See if there is an equivalent for the DS1210 and, if so, put the chip number on the board.)  It may be a couple weeks until I order boards to see if this works as planned.

 

 

 

 

 

This is awesome!!

 

 

I am in PA also if you need help getting this into production let's chat

[+scorpio_ny]

2 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

Before I get too involved in the the RAMROD reproduction, I wanted to finish the prototype of this card.

 

Unless I think of something else, the silkscreen is done.  I figured I'd call the RAMROM 2022 so there's no confusion.  It's a generic name but I was never too creative in the naming department.

 

I also added some pins for external banking of the flash chip if somebody wants to desecrate the hallowed ground of the Atari 800 by drilling holes.  😜    (There are 4 banks available.)  Also, /s6 and /s7 now have pins on them in the event somebody wants to connect those select lines to another card as /s6 and /s7 are not available on any other slot.

 

A configuration table was added to the back of the card as well.  With the exception of 100nF capacitors, all capacitors values are now labeled.  The chips also have their basic number underneath them as I like to put those numbers on them to make it easier to solder the board.  (i.e.  08 for a 74LS08 or 74F08, LS04 for the 74LS04 chip)  The Atari ROM sockets are labeled as well.

 

If you aren't using the DS1210 (or equivalent) for a battery backed-up RAM, JP1 and JP2 solder jumpers need soldered.

 

 

 

I'll probably think of a few more minor silkscreen changes yet.  (i.e.  See if there is an equivalent for the DS1210 and, if so, put the chip number on the board.)  It may be a couple weeks until I order boards to see if this works as planned.

 

 

 

 

 

This is really great! I just acquired a couple of Atari 800's and I would go for something like this. Is this card compatible with your Atari 800 Axlon memory card?

 

[reifsnyderb]

49 minutes ago, scorpio_ny said:

This is really great! I just acquired a couple of Atari 800's and I would go for something like this. Is this card compatible with your Atari 800 Axlon memory card?

 

As long as mosaic banking is disabled, it will be compatible.

[+scorpio_ny]

2 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

As long as mosaic banking is disabled, it will be compatible.

Ok! And I want to confirm that the battery backup is only good for the memory on this card and no where else, correct?

 

[Bee]

@scorpio_ny check the battery backed section of my 130XE remake document.  This is the same function.  You are correct the battery will only maintain the memory.  With the right Ramdisk it will retain contents through a power cycle or reset.  

 

Thank you 

[reifsnyderb]

Ok.  After I got off on a tangent designing a new board, I started working more on a reproduction of the original.  Since I don't have a schematic to start with, it makes the process to reverse engineer a board...well....reversed.  I found a good way to reverse engineer the board is to make up a "bare" schematic with the components on the board.  Add the foot prints, then layout the circuit board.  Each trace needs to be followed to each pin it goes to.  Putting the vias in early helps, even if I don't know where they go yet as they create "markers" of sorts as to size, spacing, etc.  Since KiCAD allows connections to be made by label, I haven't been running the wires on the schematic but, instead, labeling them as I don't know what the best order would be to put the components in on the board.  To further complicate matters, I've found that the purpose of one of the DIP switches is to accommodate 2 different types of EPROM chips with different /CS lines.  So that affects the names of the connections.

 

Anyhow, here's the progress thus far:

 

Some of the individual footprint sizes need adjusted yet.  i.e.  Capacitors and resistors.  Also, the two DIP switches show IC's in there place...but they are really DIP switches.

 

 

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:31 AM, joeventura said:

This is awesome!!

 

 

I am in PA also if you need help getting this into production let's chat

Thanks!  I'll be ordering some prototypes within the next few days.  I've also decided to test out an idea to use the 2022 RAMROM board, with a board in the 3rd RAM slot, to see if I can somewhat mimic a 1200XL.  The idea is to decode $D301, use the /EXSEL pin on the 3rd RAM slot, and enable an additional 16k of RAM.

[reifsnyderb]

More progress has been made on the Newell RAMROD board.  I found out how to do diagonal traces so those can be authentic as well.  I'll see how much more I can get done before a couple other boards arrive.  A couple members here are sending me a Bit3 Fullview 80 and an ATR8000 to reproduce the boards for.  Once I receive them, I'll get the easiest one finished first so as to get it back to him ASAP.  Then, I'll do the other one.  I'll post full KiCAD files for both.

 

Here's a picture of the progress on the RAMROD board.

 

 

I'll be ordering the 2022 RAMROM boards this week for testing.  Since shipping is so expensive, I figure I'll order an experimental board for RAM slot 3.  (Pictures below.)  If it tests out, the plan is to eventually make a 1MB+ card for the 800 that has a full 64k (yeah, really 62k) of main memory with 1024k of PORTB banked memory.  I think all this can be done without any soldering by using the 2022 RAMROM personality card, a jumper card in slot 1, and a jumper card in slot 3.

 

 

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

Latest rendering of Newell RAMROD board:

 

 

Capacitors are a little wide in the rendering.  There's around 30 more routes to make and most are near S2.

[+Stephen]

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  I am constantly amazed by the level of talent on this forum, both in hardware and software.

[reifsnyderb]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:18 PM, scorpio_ny said:

Ok! And I want to confirm that the battery backup is only good for the memory on this card and no where else, correct?

 

Yes.  Battery backup is good only for the memory on this card.

[reifsnyderb]

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

I found a problem mapping out the Newell RAMROD card.  It appeared they had RASTIME and WRITIME reversed as per Atari's schematic diagram.  After spending a lot of time double-checking the traces I confirmed it is reversed as per Atari's schematic diagram.  After thinking about how different the scope signal is between the RASTIME and WRITIME I couldn't imagine this Newell RAMROD card was wrong.  So, I pulled out an Atari personality card and checked.  Atari's *^%$$ schematic is wrong.  

 

What really yanks my chain is that I have 5 brand new RAMROM 2022 personality cards finished and being shipped my way based upon Atari's ^$$#@@ schematic diagram.  I'll have to hack brand new cards to test them because of this.

 

(Please feel free to fill in the %$$@#% marks with curse words of your choosing.)

 

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

I guess, on a more positive note, mapping out the Newell RAMROD card helped me find out why my brand new boards won't work out of the box.

 

Oh, yeah, I need to verify it but the Newell RAMROD card is about done.  I think I've got all the traces.  The schematic will need to be re-worked so as to be more "intuitive", though.  Reverse engineering a schematic based upon the board is an interesting experience.

 

All of the via locations were measured with a dial caliper.  I think the board is accurate to within 0.050" or so as the eyeball will get you to within 0.005" to 0.0010" and I had to shift things a little every now and then to get everything to fit right.

 

I'll do some of the other minor board details later, like the little holes in the bottom corners, for example.

 

Here's a picture....

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by reifsnyderb

[reifsnyderb]

I figured I'd finish this tonight.  The only thing I didn't do, that I know of, is add those little tabs to either side of the edge connector.  Otherwise, it's pretty close.  The schematic makes sense and I checked the 74LS138 decoders with the datasheet to make sure they make sense.  The DIP switch settings make sense with the chips and instructions as well.  Keep in mind that the chip pin designations can change depending which chip is in the socket.  I didn't update the library files to reflect this.  But the pins are correct.

 

Here's the pictures, schematic, and KiCad files.  If there's any interest, I'll get some of these boards made.  The biggest problem I can see is locating the proper EPROM chips to populate the boards.  I can't even figure out what EPROM type to use to read the Fast Chip that came with the board.  (That's why I have an updated and modernized version of this board being made.)  In the near future, I'll write a quick BASIC program and "dump" the Fast Chip to a floppy.

 

The schematic and KiCad files have labels on the different lines and decoder outputs for easy reading.

 

 

 

schematic.pdf

 

Newell RAMROD.zip

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by reifsnyderb

[BillC]

2 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

I can't even figure out what EPROM type to use to read the Fast Chip that came with the board. 

I read the RAMROD MMOS documentation a couple years ago, IIRC all of the firmware sockets except the math chip are configurable via DIP switch as ROM(2332?) or EPROM(2732?) while the math chip socket is non-configurable(ROM only, I believe this would be 2316). 

[reifsnyderb]

5 minutes ago, BillC said:

I read the RAMROD MMOS documentation a couple years ago, IIRC all of the firmware sockets except the math chip are configurable via DIP switch as ROM(2332?) or EPROM(2732?) while the math chip socket is non-configurable(ROM only, I believe this would be 2316). 

The math chip socket is fixed, yes.  A 2316 doesn't show up in xgpro.  

 

I just found I could search xgpro for DIP24 chips and tried a bunch.  Everything that is "successful" only reads all 0xFF on the chip.  I have verified the chip is good by putting it in an Atari ROM card and testing it in the 800.

[+slx]

I think I might need another 800 to put all this stuff in…

[reifsnyderb]

8 position DIP switches arrived today and the original Newell card is now working.    🙂

 

FastChip and Omniview are also installed....

[+Larry]

What eprom/rom did you end up using for the math pack?  

[reifsnyderb]

43 minutes ago, Larry said:

What eprom/rom did you end up using for the math pack?  

I put in the Fast Chip for now.  But the original Atari chip works, too.

[tep392]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:01 AM, reifsnyderb said:

The math chip socket is fixed, yes.  A 2316 doesn't show up in xgpro.  

 

I just found I could search xgpro for DIP24 chips and tried a bunch.  Everything that is "successful" only reads all 0xFF on the chip.  I have verified the chip is good by putting it in an Atari ROM card and testing it in the 800.

The Fastmath chip is interchangeable with the Atari chip, so you should be able to get the pinout from the Atari OS board schematic. The difference is probably chip enable is active high instead of low.

[tep392]

I dumped the 8K Omnimon EPROM from my Ramrod. I would be curious to know if it matches the one on reifsnyderb's board.  I could not find any previous dumps so posted mine here.

 

[reifsnyderb]

@tep392 Thanks!  I'll have to see if the chip enable is high.  I am wondering if your 8k Omnimon EPROM is the same as the unmarked chip that came with my board.  I haven't investigated it yet but my board came with a chip that was soldered to some wires leading to a switch.  The chip is a 28 pin chip stuffed into the 24 pin socket with the extra 4 pins sticking out the top.  I figure I'll try to see what's on it at some point.

[tep392]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:01 PM, reifsnyderb said:

@tep392 Thanks!  I'll have to see if the chip enable is high.  I am wondering if your 8k Omnimon EPROM is the same as the unmarked chip that came with my board.  I haven't investigated it yet but my board came with a chip that was soldered to some wires leading to a switch.  The chip is a 28 pin chip stuffed into the 24 pin socket with the extra 4 pins sticking out the top.  I figure I'll try to see what's on it at some point.

Mine is an 8K EPROM with pull-up resistor on A12 and a switch to ground. I put it in a 24 pin socket and then in my burner set for a 2732.  I dumped each half separately then concatenated the files.