Framerate stuff

[Ecernosoft]

Hey guys.

I feel that modern gaming has gone somewhat insane with framerates.

Humans can't even see over 60fps (Or at least, that's what the scientists say) and yet we go crazy over high framerates. Why?

60fps is good enough.

 

Is there a reason we try to get 120fps and 240fps? Just asking.

[+SmittyB]

60FPS is definitely not the limit as anyone with a 144hz monitor can tell you. I believe the actual upper limit of human perception is around 1000FPS but only under specific conditions.
Sure there are diminishing returns past a certain point, but as we've not reached that point consistently it's still the case the bigger numbers are better.

[Steven Pendleton]

It is quite easy to tell the difference between 60Hz and 144Hz even with something as simple as moving your cursor around on your desktop.

[Reaperman]

8 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Humans can't even see over 60fps 

There's a guy at work who specifically likes to troll me by saying the same thing with 30fps.

And I do seem to recall hearing very similar around in many places not so many years ago.

 

It's complete bunk. 24, 30, and 60 are just standard 'good enough' numbers, and the statement has historically increased with technology. Its not like our eyes function in frames-per-second, so if we live long enough, there will be a similar thread here about the jump to 512fps.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Reaperman

[Ecernosoft]

8 hours ago, Reaperman said:

There's a guy at work who specifically likes to troll me by saying the same thing with 30fps.

And I do seem to recall hearing very similar around in many places not so many years ago.

 

It's complete bunk. 24, 30, and 60 are just standard 'good enough' numbers, and the statement has historically increased with technology. Its not like our eyes function in frames-per-second, so if we live long enough, there will be a similar thread here about the jump to 512fps.

wow.

[Austin]

The higher the framerate, the faster the response time when it comes to controls. 60fps is "good enough", but that doesn't mean it can't (and shouldn't) be better.

[Mr SQL]

On 11/6/2022 at 2:28 PM, Ecernosoft said:

Hey guys.

I feel that modern gaming has gone somewhat insane with framerates.

Humans can't even see over 60fps (Or at least, that's what the scientists say) and yet we go crazy over high framerates. Why?

60fps is good enough.

 

Is there a reason we try to get 120fps and 240fps? Just asking.

 

Great questions ecernosoft!

 

30 times per second is indeed the limit in human reaction times, here is a game for the Atari 2600 "Fluid City" that illustrates the difference between 30 and 60 times per second reaction times, most people will not be able to beat the game with the throttle pegged.

 

You can play online here or download the Commodore 64 version from this thread.

 

The game also teaches about MBR, Motion Blur Reduction. You can see the motion blur vanish when the Hz matches the framerate at which the camera is panned.

 

This holds true in movies too and MBR circuitry is now built into Cable set top boxes and Televisions.

 

There is a link on my site for BlurBuster research with more information about MBR application with theoretical discussion beyond 1000 Hz.

 

[NeonSpaceBeagle]

I want a 120 fps tv so bad. I did play PS5 on a friend's high end Sony with that.. I couldn't really tell the difference between 60 fps and 120fps. I was playing Dirt 5 I think.  I'm sure it does look smoother tho

[Reaperman]

22 minutes ago, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

I want a 120 fps tv so bad. I did play PS5 on a friend's high end Sony with that.. I couldn't really tell the difference between 60 fps and 120fps. I was playing Dirt 5 I think.  I'm sure it does look smoother tho

Probably because the ps5 can't dish out 120fps. If it could, developers would almost certainly translate that into better detail at 45-60fps, or more resolution if they're scaling. 

 

Makes sense with the motion blur. Those fps guys who pick out targets while quickly turning would really benefit from the clearest image available. From what I've seen that's most of their playstyles, and most of the customers for hot monitors.

 

I've also heard the edges of our eyes are most sensitive to motion--which may be true, but also the 3d perspective/fov in our games tends to make the motion per frame greater at the edges of the screen anyway. I know when enter the code to disable the 30fps cap on my rush cabinet (code 60# during time trial), the difference is noticeable mostly at the edges--but is pretty instantly noticeable.