SCART S-Video Cable Setup ATARI 65XE/130XE/800XE/800XL

[Hrivis]

 

After many trial and errors I would like to share so far best Cable I did for myself. It is DIN5 --> SCART, for Stock XE models or XL with chroma/luma mod for s-video standard. Detail of READY prompt looks nice with signals going to grid exactly as it should and appear like dots on grid, basically pixels. So called DOUBLE or better INDIVIDUALLY shielded cable is a must. I did Cable for s-video 4 din standard and picture was good, but not so great as this SCART.  Finished Cable length is 1.8M.

 

Cable is wired into spirals around individual cores.

 

Stock ATARI 800XE with this Cable

 

 

 

 Next step will be S.X.E to get rid of the some signal impurity.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hrivis

[Peri Noid]

Play with sharpness setting on your TV (reduce it), it may improve image quality even more.

[Hrivis]

8 minutes ago, Peri Noid said:

Play with sharpness setting on your TV (reduce it), it may improve image quality even more.

I need to buy universal Remote Controller for the TV. I bought it without RM. 

TV is SONY WEGA 20 - Sony KLV-20SR3

Resolution 640:480 | 4:3

 

I believe that TV is not setup by neutral from seller. 

Thanks for your input on this.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@Hrivis  Really interesting you've not had as good an image an Svideo image as on SCART. I guess all the DIN5 to SCART cables I've come across are in no way shielded so that will make a difference.

 

I've undertaken the S.X.E mod on several XEs which does take away the zigzag and jailbars to a good extent.

 

For me S-video with a decent double sheilded cable (Hercules Workshop's cable for example) always gives the best stock video on both XL/XEs. (So obviously we are excluding the likes of Sophia 2 and UAV which give amazing outputs - especially Sophia/Sophia 2). VBXE is pretty good too.

 

I am curious though a your image of the READY prompt has some notable shading on the sides of the characters. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[Hrivis]

8 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@Hrivis  Really interesting you've not had as good an image an Svideo image as on SCART. I guess all the DIN5 to SCART cables I've come across are in no way shielded so that will make a difference.

 

I've undertaken the S.X.E mod on several XEs which does take away the zigzag and jailbars to a good extent.

 

For me S-video with a decent double sheilded cable (Hercules Workshop's cable for example) always gives the best stock video on both XL/XEs. (So obviously we are excluding the likes of Sophia 2 and UAV which give amazing outputs - especially Sophia/Sophia 2). VBXE is pretty good too.

 

I am curious though a your image of the READY prompt has some notable shading on the sides of the characters. 

 

 

 

 

I believe that Peri Noid is right, my TV is overloaded with sharpness. I will see what setting are set on tv as my Universal Remote Controller come to me. My S-video cable was created by me, it is shielded, so that is not some cheap one from scammers on ebay.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hrivis

[Beeblebrox]

5 minutes ago, Hrivis said:

I believe that Peri Noid is right, my TV is overloaded with sharpness. I will see what setting are set on tv as my Universal Remote Controller come to me. My S-video cable was created by me, it is shielded, so that is not some cheap one from scammers on ebay.

Cool. Great you are creating sheilded S-video cables. The only one I've come across that is any good commercially is the Hercules Workshop one, (Double shielded). Most are either not shielded at all or only the outer cable is shielded. As you know you really need each individual cable internally shielded from it's neighbour for an optimium image.  

Edited December 15, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[Hrivis]

3 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Cool. Great you are creating sheilded S-video cables. The only one I've come across that is any good commercially is the Hercules Workshop one, (Double shielded). Most are either not shielded at all or only the outer cable is shielded. As you know you really need each individual cable internally shielded from it's neighbour for an optimium image.  

I did like a 5 or 6 cables. Composite ones without shielding, S-video without shielding, then s-video based on Hercules infos on the page. And then this Scart one. At first I did not ground shielding on DIN5 side. Image was not better than the S-video shielded. Then finally I ground shielding to pin 2 and magic show up. I believe this is right scheme to do. Image is really so best and far away from s-video. I am going step by step. do multiple iterations and I believe this scheme is so far the best from all other on internet. Because nobody do schemes for shielded ones. For me there are some options how to improve this schema, but I dont have some hardware like oscilloscope to be sure. 

 

I will recreate s-video Cable from the scratch as soon as new batch of components arrive. But for me this scart could be the most perfect, in my experience. 

[Hrivis]

This one is from vertical lines on many XE computers... Notice the blue line on top and green on left. It is Hercules cable on top of S.X.E. But it is not objective to judge as all of atari have original quality.

I believe that SCART shielding is a bit better. I am not some electricity profesionall. It is just my own opinion.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Hrivis

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I had the same video issues on my 130xe with bad vertical bars on s-video from my UAV and using Hercules cables. What finally got rid of them was when I removed the RF modulator completely off the board. Previously I left it in place as it still worked, but had cut the composite signal out from the Atari and ran the composite from the UAV directly to the monitor out jack. 

 

That all said, I do still have some thin vertical bars through my VBXE output but it isn't as bad as what I had from just the s-video prior to removing the RF modulator. Now the s-video is my preferred way to use it since the palettes aren't right anyway from the VBXE although on most games it isn't that big a deal.

[Hrivis]

2 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I had the same video issues on my 130xe with bad vertical bars on s-video from my UAV and using Hercules cables. What finally got rid of them was when I removed the RF modulator completely off the board. Previously I left it in place as it still worked, but had cut the composite signal out from the Atari and ran the composite from the UAV directly to the monitor out jack. 

 

That all said, I do still have some thin vertical bars through my VBXE output but it isn't as bad as what I had from just the s-video prior to removing the RF modulator. Now the s-video is my preferred way to use it since the palettes aren't right anyway from the VBXE although on most games it isn't that big a deal.

As a graphic designer. I would love to do VBXE and other stuff. But for now, I want to push monitor signal as good as it could be. VBXE is another step I would like to do :). I want to develop for VBXE. But for now I am focusing on good quality cables out of stock atari. I dont want to do Sophia2 or UAV. The future of investments is VBXE and SAVO board. I believe that stock atari can have some decent quality if you have good cable for it. It is not tuned fine as S.X.E youtube video show up. But for now I want to tune up it. RF modulator is another question for me. In the future I would like to get that shit out off my board.

[_The Doctor__]

when you've done the basics but it still has jail bars and noise, it's time to replace the 4050 and some capacitors. Checking the power supply and making sure they are plugged in on the same power strip or outlet as the display and stereo (home theater/computer system) Make sure you shield are on and the impedance resistors are correct / adjusted per the full video update. Don't forget the composite cross talk switch / mod. Sometime folks think the picked the correct end of a component and get the wrong side or even the wrong components so I suggest folks triple check and compare to others that actually are cleaned up. You should not have to remove the modulator completely unless there are other issues with the machine, monitor, or cables

[Hrivis]

6 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

when you've done the basics but it still has jail bars and noise, it's time to replace the 4050 and some capacitors. Checking the power supply and making sure they are plugged in on the same power strip or outlet as the display and stereo (home theater/computer system) Make sure you shield are on and the impedance resistors are correct / adjusted per the full video update. Don't forget the composite cross talk switch / mod. Sometime folks think the picked the correct end of a component and get the wrong side or even the wrong components so I suggest folks triple check and compare to others that actually are cleaned up. You should not have to remove the modulator completely unless there are other issues with the machine, monitor, or cables

I will answer later. I need to buy meanwell power supply, need to buy remote controller and so on. But I believe that Cable is better than Hercules one. It is my opinion. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

11 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

when you've done the basics but it still has jail bars and noise, it's time to replace the 4050 and some capacitors. Checking the power supply and making sure they are plugged in on the same power strip or outlet as the display and stereo (home theater/computer system) Make sure you shield are on and the impedance resistors are correct / adjusted per the full video update. Don't forget the composite cross talk switch / mod. Sometime folks think the picked the correct end of a component and get the wrong side or even the wrong components so I suggest folks triple check and compare to others that actually are cleaned up. You should not have to remove the modulator completely unless there are other issues with the machine, monitor, or cables

I actually recapped that 130xe only a year ago, around the same time I replaced the mylar keyboard circuit and connector on the mainboard. That was also when I installed the UAV because both composite and original s-video had bad jail bars from the stock system even after all of that. The 4050 isn't something I thought about and I'm pretty sure that is still the stock IC. It wouldn't be super easy for me to replace it now given how I have the UAV installed directly ontop of the 4050 now with no socket in that mix anymore but again, with the RF modulator removed it looks as I would expect from composite and s-video from my other systems. And I've no use for the RF modulator anymore since that is where I mounted my 9md jack for my VBXE RGB output.

 

[_The Doctor__]

OP has no VBXE. But who knows maybe one day in the future. I can see where it could be difficult to go back and change things after one is installed though. Only other thought would the transistor getting funky. I like some of the Mytek video work, it pays attention to such details.

Edited December 15, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[Hrivis]

This one is s-video cable created to mimic Hercules one. If you zoom in you can see diagonal pattern. And I guessing that is bcs probably luma is not synced or grounded like that scart one. On scart signals sit on grid exactly as they should. It looks like every other vertical line is shifted half pixel down. I am not sure if Hercules Cable is 2cores individually shielded by spirals, or "clasic" 4wires unshielded. This one is 4core unshielded. 2 wires luma/chroma, 2wires for ground. What do you think guys? 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Hrivis

[Hrivis]

And here is another experiment, this one is s-video mini_din4 and composite wired on 3core shielded cable with audio also known as AV 3cinch cable. I know this is not how it should be. But I conected s-video din to tv + composite on cinch/rca. And the pattern is visible very very strong. So I believe that s-video cable should be created on 2core cable, individually shielded on spirals around the core of luma and chroma, grounded on both sides to be perfectly sitting on grid of pixels.

 

Is there some owner of Hercules s-video cable, to take o photo of shield wiring on DIN5 side? I would like to know which type of cable they used to build a cable. If it is 2core individually shielded or 4 cores non-shielded.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Hrivis

[_The Doctor__]

Hercules uses individual shielding on each signal and an outer shielding around all.

[Hrivis]

12 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I had the same video issues on my 130xe with bad vertical bars on s-video from my UAV and using Hercules cables. What finally got rid of them was when I removed the RF modulator completely off the board. Previously I left it in place as it still worked, but had cut the composite signal out from the Atari and ran the composite from the UAV directly to the monitor out jack. 

 

That all said, I do still have some thin vertical bars through my VBXE output but it isn't as bad as what I had from just the s-video prior to removing the RF modulator. Now the s-video is my preferred way to use it since the palettes aren't right anyway from the VBXE although on most games it isn't that big a deal.

So you have Hercules cable, would you be so kind on open DIN5 connector and make few photos? I would love to know if they are using 4core non-shielded cable. 

[Hrivis]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Hercules uses individual shielding on each signal and an outer shielding around all.

Thanks! But are they using 4core individually shielded or 2 cores individually shielded?

[Beeblebrox]

@Hrivis sorry if already mentioned but obviously we also need to take into account the signal quality before it hits the S-video cable.

 

Not too sure about XEs but with the stock 800XL there are some easy steps. 

 

Case in point on all of my stock 800XL A8s I always undertake this quick mod which eliminates interferance from the composite signal internally that affects many modern LCD screens when using any S-video cable.

 

This mod involves lifting the C54 right leg. I personally install a discreet microswtich so you can re-enable it if you want to use a composite cable, but this simple tweak makes a massive difference and gets rid of the checkerboard banding on screen every time. Then the S-video cable (especially if a shielded one), really helps further enhance image quality.

 

 

So to illustrate on my LCD:

 

Before C54 is lifted (800XL running on my LG LCD off the Hercules S-video cable):

 

and after it is lifted on the same setup:

 

If you have an 800XLF there is a revised similar mod which I detail here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/333428-800xlf-s-video-c54-removal-alternative-to-eliminate-jailbarsetc-on-lcd-screens/?do=findComment&comment=5034626

 

***

 

 

There is another tweak I've recently discovered after watching one of FJC's videos and started to do as standard which sharpens the stock 800XL image and simply involves lifting the right side of C56,  nothing more. (That is of course if your revision of 800XL board has this component as not all do I've found). It'ds also detailed here (just Googled it)  

 

***

 

BTW for 600XLs this composite interferance isn't an issue it seems, but what I always do with the 600XLs after hooking up chroma of course, is to remove the C109 ceramic cap which makes the image sharper also.

 

***

 

As I say for the XE lines I am not sure but it does seem - like Crossbow has posted - lots of internal tweaks, (like RF modulator removal or the aforementioned S.X.E mod, etc) -  have to be factored in and potentially undertaken before we then look to comparing/improving the display cables themselves.  (Where of course then a good cable makes a further significant improvement, whether it is Scart or S-video based).

Edited December 16, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[Hrivis]

@Beeblebrox You got stunning output on your 800XL, that's for sure! And I totally agree that feeding cable with good signal is important, but first is good quality cable and than tuning inside signals. I saw your 130XE with S.X.E mod with Hercules and one thing I would like to ask. Did you have so nice READY prompt from beginning? Bcs my READY prompt have that like side shadows on left and right. I mean as you can see, my signal is pretty stable on my Scart cable. But I don't have remote controller for tv (ordered today) and I believe sharpness is overloaded. Can you do me a favor? Could you please adjust sharpness and maybe contrast, I mean overload that sharpness to see if it produces that left and right shadows for your LG too?

 

 

[Hrivis]

Badboys for S.X.E just arrived. 🤟😃

[TGB1718]

Sorry it's a bit dark, but this is a stock 130XE (in terms of video, has U1M fitted, so no shield)

using S-Video, I made the lead myself out of an old camera S-Video lead, it has individually

shielded wires, 2 core cable. 

[Hrivis]

17 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

Sorry it's a bit dark, but this is a stock 130XE (in terms of video, has U1M fitted, so no shield)

using S-Video, I made the lead myself out of an old camera S-Video lead, it has individually

shielded wires, 2 core cable. 

Really nice, no side shadows. Great for 130XE

[Hrivis]

Yesterday arrived parts for S.X.E mod. But today I found there is also UltraVideoXE mod. I am not sure which way to go now. I dont need RF modulator and composite. 

 

What would you prefer. Ultra or S.X.E?