5200 Controller port issues. Need advice please.

[Flyindrew]

Ok here is situation. Have a 4 port 5200 along with 3 totally refurbished, rebuilt controllers. Sometimes everything works great. However there are periods of time when all of the controllers are experiencing the exact same issue (inability to move down or right). I heard that this might have to do with possible corrosion in the connectors in the actual console. Has anyone experienced this problem,  and if so, what's the best solution? Thanks so much and happy holidays!

[+x=usr(1536)]

52 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

However there are periods of time when all of the controllers are experiencing the exact same issue (inability to move down or right).

Out of curiosity: does this affect all four joystick ports?  If so and as best you can tell, is it affecting multiple ones at the same time?

52 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

I heard that this might have to do with possible corrosion in the connectors in the actual console. Has anyone experienced this problem,  and if so, what's the best solution?

Can't say I've experienced it myself, but if corrosion is the issue I'd hit each jack with Deoxit and connect / disconnect the controllers repeatedly.  May need to do this a few times to clear it up.

 

What bothers me is that both down and right are affected, which means that whatever the cause may be isn't limited to just one pot in the joystick(s).  The pins on the port for those are the second (X-axis) and third (Y-axis) from the left on the bottom row, and all of them are run by the POKEY.  Hopefully that's not going bad, and you just have something like a dry joint on those pins.

[Flyindrew]

Thanks so much for response. Really appreciate it. This system has a mind of its own when operating properly with regard to the control issues. I can play for hours one-two nights, having a great time, then...boom...this issue with the non right, non-down (in port 1) happens and the system is useless. I can try and play again. Its random as to whether it works properly. Sometimes it doesn't work, last night everything worked like a dream.  I did try Port 2 and unfortunately have zero control aside from moving left with port 2. 

 

I have a question about Deoxit or alcohol, would you recommend I target the actual pins on the console, or the connector ends on the controllers and plug them into the pins?

 

Thanks so much.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Flyindrew

[+x=usr(1536)]

19 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

Thanks so much for response. Really appreciate it.

No worries

20 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

This system has a mind of its own when operating properly with regard to the control issues. I can play for hours one-two nights, having a great time, then...boom...this issue with the non right, non-down (in port 1) happens and the system is useless. I can try and play again. Its random as to whether it works properly. Sometimes it doesn't work, last night everything worked like a dream.  I did try Port 2 and unfortunately have zero control aside from moving left with port 2.

OK, so more than one port is affected.  Ugh.  Definitely Deoxit both the connectors at the console and the controller; either one may be suffering from corrosion and/or oxidation.  It also couldn't hurt to clean the pots in the controllers and check the cables for continuity while twisting / moving them.  If they're all returning the exact same results on each port, it's almost certainly not a fault in the controllers, but it can't hurt to eliminate possibilities either.

 

Hate to say it, but if you have a machine laying around with a known-good POKEY in it, I'd suggest pulling the POKEY from the 5200, trying it in that machine, and seeing what happens.  If you have paddles, test those as well as joysticks, the keyboard, and audio.  If the problems follow, you know your culprit.  Best has replacements, but POKEYs (and TIAs) are a one-order-per-lifetime item from them.

 

Having said that, I don't want to jump immediately to the POKEY being at fault; we just don't know definitively that that's the case yet.  Just be prepared for the idea that it may be.

[Flyindrew]

I so appreciate your assistance and going to do a POKEY prayer now LOL.

 

Also maybe a dumb question to ask, but I wonder if just leaving the functioning controller plugged in when not in use. I have a habit of removing all controllers.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Before we blame the POKEY here.... it needs to be stressed that most of the controller port issues I run into are due to three things in this order:

 

1. One of more of the 4052 MUX chips that control the logic of the controller ports... These are very prone to be damaged due to ESD and I've had to replace about a dozen of them at this point in time over the years. It can also explain why 1 port seems to work great but then not after a bit as the chip starts to fail due to some odd issue that doesn't immediately trigger the issue. So getting the 4052s checked out is imperative.

 

2. The controllers themselves. You knew this was coming so it just needs to be put out there. But the issues with the controllers are usually due to poor contact on the buttons vs the pots not reading properly. Sure the pots on the controllers can and do go bad, but they can be cleaned to help with that and still aren't as high a failure point as the rest of the controller is. The wiring is another big cause here as I've had the wiring break internally within the cable midway somewhere and cause intermittent issues like what is being described. This can be checked by moving the cable around while trying to use the controller to see if functions or direction work and stop on their own doing this.

 

3. The controller ports. Although what I've seen isn't so much due to pin corrosion but cold solder joints and pins that are bent back into the controller over time to just barely make proper connection. Yes you could get some needle nose pliers and pull the pins back out if that happens, but they will just push back in again over time and quicker than originally since they have already done it and the port is loosened for them to do so. So it is worth it to try and apply some fresh heat and little solder to each of the controller pins to see if that helps.

 

But...the fact that you aren't getting anything from port 2, tells me the issue is one or more of the 4052 MUX chips at this point. In most of the 4 port units, those are in sockets and easy to change. In later 4 ports and 2 port units they tend to be soldered to the board and not as fun to change out. You also have to remove that RF shielding in order to get to the 4052 chips as they sit just behind it in the front edge of the main board.

 

[Flyindrew]

Thanks. This is great information. Im going to try Deoxit (the cheaper and easiest fix) first and then look into 4052 repair if all else fails. 

 

Its just so frustrating as this system is the best system when its working. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

3 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

Thanks. This is great information. Im going to try Deoxit (the cheaper and easiest fix) first and then look into 4052 repair if all else fails. 

 

Its just so frustrating as this system is the best system when its working. 

Well to be fair it is 40 years old now... And with proper care I've found the 5200s to be just a reliable as any of my other vintage/retro consoles of the era. The controllers are the only real issue for usability over time and again, that can be maintained as well.

 

Also noticed you mention plugging the controllers in and out often. That can cause wear on the pins and cause the solder to loosen up quicker. Also plugging the controllers in and out while the system is powered on, can also cause issues with the 4052 mux chips due to ESD. So I advise not doing that except when the the system is powered off.

 

[Flyindrew]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well to be fair it is 40 years old now... And with proper care I've found the 5200s to be just a reliable as any of my other vintage/retro consoles of the era. The controllers are the only real issue for usability over time and again, that can be maintained as well.

 

Also noticed you mention plugging the controllers in and out often. That can cause wear on the pins and cause the solder to loosen up quicker. Also plugging the controllers in and out while the system is powered on, can also cause issues with the 4052 mux chips due to ESD. So I advise not doing that except when the the system is powered off.

 

This is so good to be mindful of going forward. I saw one of those places that does 5200 repairs online. I love this system so much I may just have a diagnostic and complete refit done if there are any lingering issues. Thanks

[+-^CrossBow^-]

11 minutes ago, Flyindrew said:

This is so good to be mindful of going forward. I saw one of those places that does 5200 repairs online. I love this system so much I may just have a diagnostic and complete refit done if there are any lingering issues. Thanks

Excellent...there are a few of us here that could help as well.

 

[Flyindrew]

20 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Excellent...there are a few of us here that could help as well.

 

And that is so greatly appreciated!