Help wanted: Doing a paint job on my Atari 1050 drive, bit of a problem...

[Fire Button]

Hi all,

 

So I saw a lot of videos recently where some retro tech wizard takes some ancient retro hardware and do amazing repair and brightening cleanup. Quite inspired I took out my old Atari XL as well as my 1050 drive, and decided to try it out first on the latter. It had plenty problems - the master/slave switch was missing and one RS232 port was missing. Luckily I had a second broken 1050 and was able to (de)solder and replace those parts.

The case being quite yellow, I decided I wanted to brighten it up a bit. I'm familiar with the Retrobrite stuff to basically ooze the yellow out using, I believe, a hydroperoxide mix and UV light, but the whole process seemed laborious to me and there is a risk the yellowing just creeps back over time. Instead, I decided I wanted to paint it using primer spray and then a RAL 1013, which seems closest to the original Atari white-ish (according to someone on some forum). So far so good.

The problem is the thin metallic (aluminum) label bearing the Atari 1050 name on top of the machine. It would be in the way of a spray job so I decided to carefully remove it and clean it separately and get the scratches out. Bad idea for 2 reasons:

- The metal strip is extremely delicate, even gently peeling it off caused bumps and creases that I can't seem to straighten out

- The old trick of polishing aluminum (rough metallic sponge with some water) only dulls it, it doesn't make it shiny.

See uploaded pic. So I turn to any of you for help, hoping some of you have experience with this:

 

- How to get the creases and bends out of the strip?

- How can I get a smooth shiny surface on the strip again? (the other, spare drive lost its strip long time ago, I have only this one).

Thanks in advance for any help! 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Fire Button

[_The Doctor__]

yup paint bad, go's to crap over time and smell whenever the drive heats up, never peel/pry the metal bands and labels, more Ataris end up damaged, fugly and smelly this way. asking for a fix after the fact is never quite the treat one would like to receive .

Edited December 28, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[xrbrevin]

i prefer the sunbright method to remove yellowing. totally non invasive and the older plastics (400/800 etc) dont react badly - they dont like the peroxide

ive never attempted to improve an alum strip, people seem to struggle.

maybe make a solid inner and outer form for a mechanical press procedure? maybe heat will help too

[Mathy]

Hello xrbrevin

 

41 minutes ago, xrbrevin said:

i prefer the sunbright method to remove yellowing. totally non invasive and the older plastics (400/800 etc) dont react badly

 

All plastics suffer from UV light.  It breaks the chains of molecules and makes the plastic brittle over time.  This is what the National Library of Medicine says about it:

 

Quote

Exposure to ultraviolet (UV) radiation may cause the significant degradation of many materials. UV radiation causes photooxidative degradation which results in breaking of the polymer chains, produces free radical and reduces the molecular weight, causing deterioration of mechanical properties and leading to useless materials, after an unpredictable time.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Mathy

[Mark2008]

4 hours ago, Mathy said:

Hello xrbrevin

 

 

All plastics suffer from UV light.  It breaks the chains of molecules and makes the plastic brittle over time.  This is what the National Library of Medicine says about it:

 

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

This is why I paint some things. 

 

my 2 cents on this subject,  Paint protects plastic from UV light.   If you were to jump forward 100 years from now, the survivors would be equipment that was for some reason protected.   Like the extremely rare case that someone bought an Atari 800 in 1979 and painted it on day 1.  Nobody would do that, but only some rare exception will outlast the others.

 

Like a whooly mammoth that somehow fell into and was immediately encased in ice, and then survives in the permafrost for 30,000 years - something really unusual has to occur to be that kind of survivor. 

 

 

But, we are here now, dealing with damaged plastic.

 

I retrobrite keys, simply because it works very well for me.  I don't try to retrobrite a computer case, because I have had issues with streaking.  And I tried leaving a 1010 out in the sun for 3 days, it may have impacted the color some, but that did not work so well for me, but I may try again in the summer.

But what I do, when painting, is I put blue painters tape over the silver parts, or rubber feet, that type of thing. then just peel it back off later.

 

 

 

 

[Mrshoujo]

Umm.. There is no "master / slave" switch on the 1050 drive. There ARE drive numbering switches. And no RS232 port. If you mean SIO, then that's no RS232.

[Gunstar]

I have painted many several Atari computers from the 800 (as seen in my avatar pic) as well as XL/XE computers an peripherals over the years, my 1200XL I repainted with a very close match to the original color that has lasted for years and still looks as good as the day I did it (probably about 5 years now for my 1200XL. I will be painting all my XL peripherals to match soon, as they also have been slowing yellowing (or re-yellowing after "retro-brite" attempts. But I just use blue painters masking tape to cover the metal labels and an Exacto-blade knife to slice around the perimeter of the badge or label, and the XL ones are recessed so it is very easy to do a clean slicing job by using the blade and following the crease/crack left between the badges/labels and the surrounding plastic, which then is easily removed after painting. 

 

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to totally gets bends out of the metal badges, I guess just do the best you can or find a replacement. As to repairing the brushed metal with a metallic sponge and getting it shiny again, I suggest using a  "gloss" or High gloss clear coast version of the Satin clear coat paint can pictured below. I've never tried it, as I've never damaged or try to "re-brush" the brushed metal, but I believe it could help and at least won't make it look worse. As the "shine" on the brushed metal, I believe they coat the brushed metal with something to create the shine, obviously not a clear paint, but some other method, as brushed metal definitely doesn't just "shine" on it's own to my knowledge. Though I may be wrong. I have "repaired" the function buttons on my 1200XL and other brushed metal areas that don't have print on them with faux brushed metal stickers I cut out to fit and it looks as good as the original. I cut them from faux brushed metal sticker signs like "no smoking" or "no solicitations" like the ones picture below here.

 

This is also what I use to add the brushed metal badge look to DIY 3D printed cases for DIY projects. Luckily the metal strips and buttons on the XL range are narrow enough that you can cut the strips from the top and bottom with the "no smoking" in between, with just enough area there to cut to fit. this is just one example and you may find similar stickers with more clear area above and below. What I used were actually "no soliciting" stickers and you may find similar with more clear faux brushed metal area to use. But it is a perfect match and cannot be detected by the casual eye that they are stickers over the original metal, when compared to the original in good condition (like the strips before and after the 1200XL function buttons I did not repair this way as they weren't damaged like the buttons that had wear from use:

 

 

I purchase the ones I use at Walmart and they generally have several different stickers that say different things and some have more clear brushed metal looking area to work with. This is merely and example and I can't tell from the picture if the area is enough to do this from the picture. But just measure the width of the brushed metal on the XL and do the same with the stickers at Walmart or other place that sell them.

 

 

 

Now with the 800, the Fuji badge was thick enough for me to carefully remove with blades and/or thin putty knives and then re-glue it on after the fact (I did repaint the badge to match my color motif too, of course, separate from the case. But I did just make a completely new label where the 'Atari 800' label was originally. but with other stickers or badges on the bottom or XL machines I just used the blue masking tape.

 

I have been using Rust-Oleum Painter's touch 2x ultra cover for all my work, which includes the primer, three coats, then 2 clear coats of the same type of paint once the base coats have cured, to protect from scratches, and the satin clear coat also gives the computer case the same "sheen" as the original plastic too.

 

Here is exactly what I used for my 1200XL in the pic below, for the 800 see my blog linked below. Ignore the TRS-80 COCO pic at the top, that's for another blog, but it shows up at the top of this blog as all my blogs are "parts" within a main blog on upgrades and mods and restorations the 800 blog is in the second row, middle. Some "blogs" are just there as current place-holders and basically say "coming soon." I'm not near my 1200XL to take a picture of it atm, but the paint cans were handy, here in my electronics lab/shop to take a quick picture of...the Heirloom white is a near exact match to the original, new, plastic color of the XL's (I compared to a peripheral that is not damaged by UV) this is the best paint and color match I have found, and I even have a match to the XL brown, but I don't paint the original XL brown, since it doesn't show noticeable yellowing, on original cases, I use it for 3D cases I print for DIY peripherals to color match the XL brown. No current examples of that are handy either, but will be in my 1200XL blog eventually. I don't have a can handy to photo, but the brown I use is the same brand and it is called Dark Walnut and matches near perfectly too .

 

 

I have yet to do a blog on my 1200XL, which I'll do as a system once I finish the peripherals, but my custom 800 has a pretty complete (still a bit more photos to add to it eventually) and you can look at that blog in my blogs within my profile: 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

I realized I do have my 1200XL case in the shop as I'm working on more internal upgrades (partial motherboard can be seen in paint can picture above and the corner to the left in this one) and it was early morning so my brain was not a full capacity yet and I forgot. So this paint job and the Faux stickers used was done about 5 years ago, so there is some scuffing from use on even the Faux brushed metal stickers I used to restore those areas. In this case, I only used the stickers on the far right and left metal trim area before the 1200XL printed area and after the buttons. The buttons restored in this way I mentioned above were on an 800XL and another 1200XL computers, not this one. as most of the buttons on this unit were not scuffed enough (at the time anyway) to need repairing. Only the off white part of the case has been painted.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gunstar

[Fire Button]

Sorry for the late response, I should not pose questions and then go on holiday.

 

I mentioned why I didn't do Retrobriting / Sunbrightening vs painting mostly because I expected that as soon as I'd say that I'm doing a paint job, people would suggest the alternative. I didn't mean to start a discussion on which is better, there are up- and downsides to both methods and for me it balanced towards a paint job. I guess it comes down to personal experience, preference and expertise. Besides those that I mentioned, several hours of bright sunlight aren't exactly in ample supply where I live, and alternatives I've seen involved having to buy a UV light and fit a cardboard box with tin foil for consistent exposure. On the other hand, paint, even spray paint, smoothens the original texture of XL case surfaces, which is my main thing 'against' it especially because you need primer too.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 12:38 PM, Mrshoujo said:

Umm.. There is no "master / slave" switch on the 1050 drive. There ARE drive numbering switches. And no RS232 port. If you mean SIO, then that's no RS232.

Yes you're absolutely right, my recollection of things is a jumbled mess.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 12:05 AM, xrbrevin said:

maybe make a solid inner and outer form for a mechanical press procedure? maybe heat will help too

Cheers. Heat doesn't do much, and I'm trying out pressure using a vise and some straight clenching bits without much noticeable effect. I think it needs both but I have not found an (easy) method to apply both at the same time. Maybe it just needs a lot of runs. A replacement original label will be difficult to get by, I'm sure.

@Gunstar Great write-up, thank you for your elaborate response. Nice job on the custom 800 too (I won't ever be as nearly involved for such a project). I have heard of Rust-Oleum doing the job well before to get the XL colors back (probably some earlier post by you), but isn't really available around here, so I went for a RAL1013 spray paint and some PVC-compatible primer. The color looks about right (and in retrospect, I guess I've only ever seen the original color on day I took it out of the packaging).

Not clear on the details, do you mean Rust-Oleum is a paint / primer mix? How do keep the original texture of the XL surface from being washed out by excess paint?

And if I can't fix the label I guess I'll follow your example of creating my own strip, though a bit of luck in finding the materials seems required. Do you have any clue what font was used for the letters on the 1050XL?

W.r.t. retrobriting or painting the keys of the XL (when I get there) I also cannot see any discoloration and therefore point. If anything, I need to touch up the white of the characters on the keys which are faded or rubbed out, any good way to do that?

Thanks again!

[Gunstar]

You don't need extra coat(s) of primer if you use paint with the primer in it like the can I showed you, and I still have texture visible on my computers, it doesn't make it disappear unless you apply it too thickly. Not that I really ever cared about the texture anyway myself though. My coating technique is thin coats applied evenly. Spray painting does take practice and experience to get it right. I've done dozens of computers and peripherals over the years. The main thing is to follow the directions on the cans precisely (the proper distance from the surface and even passes slightly overlapping each pass) and be patient! Don't expect the first or even second coat to fully conceal the plastic with paint, if you do, you are laying it on way too thick. about half an hour between coats and then let the paint cure for 72 hours (some paints say 48, but wait 72 no matter what as humidity and other factors are at work and it is best to just be patient. If you forget and wait too long in between coats, the same applies before you add more coats.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Gunstar

[tjlazer]

Sorry to hear you damaged the badge trying to remove it.  Over the years I have seen many do that to retrobrite and I aways thought that was unneccesary as damage like this can happen especially with metal badges.  I usually just tape around (if painting) or just use a brush to apply the retrobrite solution when retrobriting.  Never had an issue.  No need to submerge the case or risk damage by trying to remove badges.  You can contact B&C or BEST to see if they have any 1050 badges for sale.

Edited January 9, 2023 by tjlazer

[Fire Button]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:39 PM, Gunstar said:

You don't need extra coat(s) of primer if you use paint with the primer in it like the can I showed you, and I still have texture visible on my computers, it doesn't make it disappear unless you apply it too thickly. Not that I really ever cared about the texture anyway myself though. My coating technique is thin coats applied evenly. Spray painting does take practice and experience to get it right. I've done dozens of computers and peripherals over the years. The main thing is to follow the directions on the cans precisely (the proper distance from the surface and even passes slightly overlapping each pass) and be patient! Don't expect the first or even second coat to fully conceal the plastic with paint, if you do, you are laying it on way too thick. about half an hour between coats and then let the paint cure for 72 hours (some paints say 48, but wait 72 no matter what as humidity and other factors are at work and it is best to just be patient. If you forget and wait too long in between coats, the same applies before you add more coats.

Very clear, thanks. Unfortunately I already went ahead with the paint I have, and just now noticed the primer layer was a little too thick on some edges. I didn't think more passes were necessary but maybe I apply it too thickly, like you said. In any case I need to get my hands on a can of Rust-Oleum (this I think requires the most patience, because the overseas path is long and heavy border taxes start at low prices). I do like the color of the spray I have and it covers nicely but it doesn't stick without primer.

On 1/9/2023 at 4:08 AM, tjlazer said:

Sorry to hear you damaged the badge trying to remove it.  Over the years I have seen many do that to retrobrite and I aways thought that was unneccesary as damage like this can happen especially with metal badges.  I usually just tape around (if painting) or just use a brush to apply the retrobrite solution when retrobriting.  Never had an issue.  No need to submerge the case or risk damage by trying to remove badges.  You can contact B&C or BEST to see if they have any 1050 badges for sale.

Thanks! I'm not sure which shops you mean with B&C and BEST (Google searches end up with clothes stores or anything that calls themselves 'best'), do you have links to their sites? I'm guessing they're US-based, I'm in Europe.

I might try my luck on making my own using a strip like Gunstar mentioned. I do have a Cricut (cutting machine) so I can cut texts out of vinyl stickers, and I think I've found a few fonts that come close to those labeled on the 1050.

[Gunstar]

4 hours ago, Fire Button said:

Very clear, thanks. Unfortunately I already went ahead with the paint I have, and just now noticed the primer layer was a little too thick on some edges. I didn't think more passes were necessary but maybe I apply it too thickly, like you said. In any case I need to get my hands on a can of Rust-Oleum (this I think requires the most patience, because the overseas path is long and heavy border taxes start at low prices). I do like the color of the spray I have and it covers nicely but it doesn't stick without primer.

Thanks! I'm not sure which shops you mean with B&C and BEST (Google searches end up with clothes stores or anything that calls themselves 'best'), do you have links to their sites? I'm guessing they're US-based, I'm in Europe.

I might try my luck on making my own using a strip like Gunstar mentioned. I do have a Cricut (cutting machine) so I can cut texts out of vinyl stickers, and I think I've found a few fonts that come close to those labeled on the 1050.

Sorry, that would be B&C Computervisions and Best Electronics, both Atari exclusive dealers and web sites should pop up with a search of the full names with Atari and in on the search. They also both sell on eBay, but don't necessarily have the full range of stock listed there for sale and you can still purchase directly and get answers through e-mail correspondence too and more to see available on the web sites.

 

Though now that I recall,  I believe B&C store site has been down for a while and the only contact is through eBay, sorry. They are 'MyAtari' seller on eBay, but it's still best to contact them directly via seller contact if a replacement badge doesn't show up for sale. They may even have new old stock case haves for sale still too as another option. I believe Best Electronics still goes by that name on eBay, but I stopped being a customer for personal reasons years ago, and I'm not going to sway you from doing business with them if they are the only place that has what you want. Though I do suggest they be your last resort.

 

Of course they may not show up on your country's version of eBay, and you may have directly to the U.S. ebay and may only be allowed to browse and not log in for all I know. It depends on the individual country for me, from the U.S.; the U.K. allows it and some E.U. countries, but not all, etc. around the world.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Gunstar

[Fire Button]

On 1/11/2023 at 3:03 AM, Gunstar said:

Sorry, that would be B&C Computervisions and Best Electronics, both Atari exclusive dealers and web sites should pop up with a search of the full names with Atari and in on the search. They also both sell on eBay, but don't necessarily have the full range of stock listed there for sale and you can still purchase directly and get answers through e-mail correspondence too and more to see available on the web sites.

 

Though now that I recall,  I believe B&C store site has been down for a while and the only contact is through eBay, sorry. They are 'MyAtari' seller on eBay, but it's still best to contact them directly via seller contact if a replacement badge doesn't show up for sale. They may even have new old stock case haves for sale still too as another option. I believe Best Electronics still goes by that name on eBay, but I stopped being a customer for personal reasons years ago, and I'm not going to sway you from doing business with them if they are the only place that has what you want. Though I do suggest they be your last resort.

 

Of course they may not show up on your country's version of eBay, and you may have directly to the U.S. ebay and may only be allowed to browse and not log in for all I know. It depends on the individual country for me, from the U.S.; the U.K. allows it and some E.U. countries, but not all, etc. around the world.

Right, I was able to find their websites but things are not looking hopeful, indeed the B&C is listed as temporarily closed on Google but their website hasn't seen an update in a decade. Best Electronics does have some spare parts listed on their website but not the ones I'm looking for. I best look elsewhere anyway but chances look dim. If I want the real thing I guess I either get a different case or I try my my luck with a clean strip of metal myself.

 

Anyway thanks again for all the pointers. Got some restoration work ahead of me...