How accurate are the 5200 games "converted" to run on Atari8bit computers as XEX's?

[RockLobster]

I'm new to the Atari 8bit computer world and have seen lots of the 5200 games converted.  Since I don't have a real 5200, how do they compare to real games for those of you familiar w/ the games and converted versions?

[zylon]

I'd say the Mario Bros, Centipede, and Space Invaders run spot-on. I'm not good enough at Space Dungeon to rate it fairly.

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 hours ago, RockLobster said:

I'm new to the Atari 8bit computer world and have seen lots of the 5200 games converted.  Since I don't have a real 5200, how do they compare to real games for those of you familiar w/ the games and converted versions?

They're pretty much exactly the same.  The A8 and 5200 are close enough in terms of hardware that conversions (regardless of direction) are generally interchangeable.

 

The one immediately-noticeable difference will be in how the games control.  Since the A8 used digital joysticks and the 5200's were analogue, games can feel like they play very differently depending on which platform you may (or may not be) used to.

 

One important thing to keep in mind was that Atari was really good at needlessly doubling up on development work, with the end result that certain games had significantly different versions between the A8 and 5200.  Dig Dug, Pac-Man, and Qix are good examples of this: the 5200 versions either have superior gameplay, features missing on the A8 version, or both.

[BIGHMW]

45 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

They're pretty much exactly the same.  The A8 and 5200 are close enough in terms of hardware that conversions (regardless of direction) are generally interchangeable.

 

The one immediately-noticeable difference will be in how the games control.  Since the A8 used digital joysticks and the 5200's were analogue, games can feel like they play very differently depending on which platform you may (or may not be) used to.

 

One important thing to keep in mind was that Atari was really good at needlessly doubling up on development work, with the end result that certain games had significantly different versions between the A8 and 5200.  Dig Dug, Pac-Man, and Qix are good examples of this: the 5200 versions either have superior gameplay, features missing on the A8 version, or both.

You almost forgot to mention that Centipede on the 5200 was much better than her A8 counterpart by a country mile, and I have played both.

[RockLobster]

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Dig Dug, Pac-Man, and Qix are good examples of this: the 5200 versions either have superior gameplay, features missing on the A8 version, or both.

 

I see.   So pretty much like two diff but similarly capable bands playing covers of the same song.   They'll just be different sometimes.

[RockLobster]

9 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

You almost forgot to mention that Centipede on the 5200 was much better than her A8 counterpart by a country mile, and I have played both.

Not only were the graphics more detailed on the 5200 version but the movement of the centipede itself was much smoother.

 

Perhaps I worded my question incorrectly but outside of versions of the same game, does the converted 5200 game play the same as a 5200 would?

Edited January 18, 2023 by RockLobster

[+x=usr(1536)]

12 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Perhaps I worded my question incorrectly but outside of versions of the same game, does the converted 5200 game play the same as a 5200 would?

Basically, yes.  It may feel different due to the difference between analogue and digital joysticks, but is otherwise the same.

[zzip]

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

One important thing to keep in mind was that Atari was really good at needlessly doubling up on development work, with the end result that certain games had significantly different versions between the A8 and 5200.  Dig Dug, Pac-Man, and Qix are good examples of this: the 5200 versions either have superior gameplay, features missing on the A8 version, or both.

I suspect when they knew the 5200 was coming, they realized some of their 8-bit conversions needed to be polished up.   Strangely it seems Atari ported the 5200 Dig Dug to 8-bit themselves.   My friend had a version on cart that resembled the 5200 version and not the version Atari showed in their catalog.

 

20 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Perhaps I worded my question incorrectly but outside of versions of the same game, does the converted 5200 game play the same as a 5200 would?

Keep in mind that the 5200 controller is full of buttons and has an analog stick, and the 8-bit uses the standard 2600 joystick,  so there may be buttons mapped to the keyboard that make the game more awkward to play.

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 minute ago, zzip said:

Strangely it seems Atari ported the 5200 Dig Dug to 8-bit themselves.   My friend had a version on cart that resembled the 5200 version and not the version Atari showed in their catalog.

Dig Dug is a weird one.  There were two versions released on cartridge by Atari: the A8-specific version, and the 5200 version ported to the A8.  AFAIK, this is the only title they did that with in-house, and even subsequently licensed it out to third parties for later distribution.

 

The other oddball is Centipede.  When Atari UK released the Compilation A cassette for the A8 around 1987, Centipede was one of the included games.  The version that they used happened to be one of Glenn's 5200 ports, however, not a (clean) dump of the 5200 version.

 

In a way, it's not surprising that one of Glenn's cracks was used: it was everywhere at the time.

[BIGHMW]

49 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Dig Dug is a weird one.  There were two versions released on cartridge by Atari: the A8-specific version, and the 5200 version ported to the A8.  AFAIK, this is the only title they did that with in-house, and even subsequently licensed it out to third parties for later distribution.

 

The other oddball is Centipede.  When Atari UK released the Compilation A cassette for the A8 around 1987, Centipede was one of the included games.  The version that they used happened to be one of Glenn's 5200 ports, however, not a (clean) dump of the 5200 version.

 

In a way, it's not surprising that one of Glenn's cracks was used: it was everywhere at the time.

Then that leads to this question.... is there a clean dump of the 5200 version of Centipede for A8 or is the Glenn dump the only one available? And if so where, because I have the Glenn dump and when I played her on my old XEGS it had issues uploading and I had to do a few tricks on my system with my old TBA Ultimate Cart before she would load properly, I hope a cleaner dump, provided one is available, doesn't have those same issues.  

[RockLobster]

8 hours ago, zzip said:

Keep in mind that the 5200 controller is full of buttons and has an analog stick, and the 8-bit uses the standard 2600 joystick,  so there may be buttons mapped to the keyboard that make the game more awkward to play.

I wonder if there's something comparable to iCode's 5200-to-USB adapter but for the A8 platform?

 

https://www.icode.com/atari-5200-usb-adapter-for-your-pc/

[zylon]

5200 Centipede has a far more agressive spider too.

[BIGHMW]

3 hours ago, zylon said:

5200 Centipede has a far more agressive spider too.

Yup, THAT'S for sure, in fact knowing that I can tell you that I can play every other version of Centipede knowing I always have a tough time with my version (5200 version) because that goddamn spider is SO aggressive, in fact over my 40 years of playing the 5200 version I cannot tell you how hard to is to avoid it even trying to zip from one side of the screen to the other to avoid colliding with it is tough because it seems like it pretty much has you honed in on it somehow.

[MrMaddog]

The only "problem child" of the 5200 ports I could think of was Counterstrike.  It used the Space Bar as the second button but when I played it years ago on an emulator, the game would always reset.  Maybe it's not the case now but thought I throw that one out there...

 

[+Stephen]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:53 PM, RockLobster said:

I wonder if there's something comparable to iCode's 5200-to-USB adapter but for the A8 platform?

 

https://www.icode.com/atari-5200-usb-adapter-for-your-pc/

Thanks for the link - I'd not heard of this adapter before.  For A8 controllers, you'll want the http://www.2600-daptor.com/

[BIGHMW]

29 minutes ago, MrMaddog said:

The only "problem child" of the 5200 ports I could think of was Counterstrike.  It used the Space Bar as the second button but when I played it years ago on an emulator, the game would always reset.  Maybe it's not the case now but thought I throw that one out there...

 

I think you mean "Countermeasure", not Counterstrike.

[RockLobster]

50 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Thanks for the link - I'd not heard of this adapter before.  For A8 controllers, you'll want the http://www.2600-daptor.com/

I have two of those.  Although I think they're to use DB-9 controllers as USB devices?    What did you mean "For A8 controllers"?

[RockLobster]

1 hour ago, MrMaddog said:

The only "problem child" of the 5200 ports I could think of was Counterstrike. 

My copy of Countermeasure has the A8's spacebar act as the pause button.

 

Instead of using the 5200 controller's second button to turn the turret, the game control scheme with one button is now a combination of holding down the button after your tank is moving in a certain direction once you've pointed your turret to where you want.   It works well but changes the original game play.

 

With that in mind... are their two button joysticks for the A8 platform and/or for 5200 conversions?  

[+x=usr(1536)]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:32 PM, RockLobster said:

With that in mind... are their two button joysticks for the A8 platform and/or for 5200 conversions?  

Short answer: not really, because there's no truly standard way for how to implement it on the A8.  People have made them, but as each individual piece of software needs to be able to support whatever method the stick uses to implement the second button, it's not something that's ever really caught on.

 

Conceivably, something like a keyboard controller could be housed in a joystick form factor, which would allocate six switches for cardinal directions and two fire buttons; six leftover switches for <insert purpose(s) here> would also be available.  On the plus side, this would allow for using a commonly-known method of reading the device as well the ability to use inexpensive hardware to build it, but with the downside of having to adapt a joystick to use keyboard controller guts or just build it from scratch.  Not impossible, but not very likely to happen.

 

Thinking about it, doing things this way would allow for a 2-button, twin-stick controller on a single port.  I'm just not sure if the port could be polled fast enough for it to be useful, or if the keyboard controller allows for multiple simultaneous keypresses (necessary to generate diagonal movements and firing while moving).

 

In fact...  This would leave another four switches up for grabs that aren't implemented on the keyboard controller.  It physically implements its keypad in a 3x4 matrix, but it's actually 4x4 in size.  Hm.  That could potentially allow for three sticks, each with one button, on a single keyboard controller.

[BIGHMW]

Just goes to prove that some games (like Countermeasure) were just meant to be played only on a 5200 while some other games were meant to be played only on an A8/XEGS platform, both consoles may incorporate the same graphics but the controls are implemented differently enough to which each console has its strong points and its weak ones, games like Star Raiders and Countermeasure, are meant to be played with a CX52 on a 5200 while others incorporate more of the keyboard for systems like the A8/XEGS, so now I know that the idea of having everything on one console may not necessarily fly due to the way the controls are mapped and implemented on each game.

[MrMaddog]

23 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

I think you mean "Countermeasure", not Counterstrike.

 

Yeah, my bad... I keep getting those two names mixed up.

 

23 hours ago, RockLobster said:

My copy of Countermeasure has the A8's spacebar act as the pause button.

 

Instead of using the 5200 controller's second button to turn the turret, the game control scheme with one button is now a combination of holding down the button after your tank is moving in a certain direction once you've pointed your turret to where you want.   It works well but changes the original game play.

 

With that in mind... are their two button joysticks for the A8 platform and/or for 5200 conversions?  

 

It might have been that, like I said it's been a long time ago like around 2000.  I couldn't get 5200 emulation to work so I just used the Glenn the 5200 Man conversions instead.

 

 

[phuzaxeman]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:29 AM, RockLobster said:

Not only were the graphics more detailed on the 5200 version but the movement of the centipede itself was much smoother.

 

Perhaps I worded my question incorrectly but outside of versions of the same game, does the converted 5200 game play the same as a 5200 would?

Games like centipede, baseball, and countermeasure do not play the same because of the analog controls.

 

For example, to bunt on the 5200 baseball, you move the stick half way. You couldn't do that on 8bit.

 

On Countermeasure, you control a tank. To rotate the cannon, you need the top button.  The bottom button shoots.

 

On Intellidiscs Tron, you use the joystick and keypad which pays homage to the Intellivision controls. You can't do that configuration on an 8bit.

 

The gameplay changes with analog controls which makes owning the 5200 worth it.

 

 

 

[phuzaxeman]

There's also a conversion of 8bit Pengo. The conversion left the music to be only 1 voice.

 

The 5200 music had multiple voices.

 

Space Dungeon I read somewhere was a little glitchy on the 8bit.

[RockLobster]

10 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

There's also a conversion of 8bit Pengo. The conversion left the music to be only 1 voice.

 

The 5200 music had multiple voices.

 

Space Dungeon I read somewhere was a little glitchy on the 8bit.

 

Excellent exception.

[BIGHMW]

18 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

There's also a conversion of 8bit Pengo. The conversion left the music to be only 1 voice.

 

The 5200 music had multiple voices.

 

Space Dungeon I read somewhere was a little glitchy on the 8bit.

Well that might make me think twice about getting the XEGS with my income tax refund in which I'll be filing for even though I just got both of my W2's/1090's from my work at Safeway and also from Social Security and just getting the gear for my 5200 and ColecoVision instead of getting the 7800 repaired as well as acquiring the XEGS, in which I wanted to do both of so I can being back The Atari Report, and just merely doing "ColecoVision EXTRA!" next month and continuing to do episodes of The Atari 5200 SuperReport in which I'll be filming this week instead. As for the 2600 games maybe I also should also ditch the Flashback 9's also and get my 2600 adapter fixed as well, that would be a more economical way of doing things, just support the ColecoVision and the 5200 and ditch the rest!!!