Switch v Steam

[Tanooki]

I can agree with not wanting to dink around much using them for work, but the cost vs loss benefit still puts a PC over a console at this rate.  As the post above yours says, Sony-MS went insane.  Those consoles are no longer consoles, they're out of date walled garden PCs with overly controlled prices, availability, and a finite death clock on anything there before they move on, or worse move on from the entire network to the next so they can charge you once more.  I'm done on PCs and self building them, again, what you said...no desire, but I do desire cobbling one together with a well established old entity and have them do the grunt work, stress testing, and shipping it with a nice warranty though because big box setups usually aren't that great.

 

I mostly retro and Switch too, but there are console games Switch isn't made for or just was denied, that's where PC shines and I'll be using those games if I adored them enough for decades to come which will outlast the walled garden.

[digdugnate]

20 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I can agree with not wanting to dink around much using them for work, but the cost vs loss benefit still puts a PC over a console at this rate.  As the post above yours says, Sony-MS went insane.  Those consoles are no longer consoles, they're out of date walled garden PCs with overly controlled prices, availability, and a finite death clock on anything there before they move on, or worse move on from the entire network to the next so they can charge you once more.  I'm done on PCs and self building them, again, what you said...no desire, but I do desire cobbling one together with a well established old entity and have them do the grunt work, stress testing, and shipping it with a nice warranty though because big box setups usually aren't that great.

 

I mostly retro and Switch too, but there are console games Switch isn't made for or just was denied, that's where PC shines and I'll be using those games if I adored them enough for decades to come which will outlast the walled garden.

I totally get that viewpoint.  I'm wondering if this generation of MS/Sony will be last console for me, but who knows.   My 'in' is that I keep up my wife's gaming PC so i guess i could just share with her, hehe.  We're about to the stage where we just plug her computer into the TV since they're in the same room.

[roots.genoa]

I think I'll still buy consoles since unless you have a very expensive PC, it's difficult to have the latest AAA games run properly. And I like to purchase a game without fearing it might not run well. I know Steam can give refunds, but the fact this feature exists shows how PC gaming is random.

[Tanooki]

15 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I think I'll still buy consoles since unless you have a very expensive PC, it's difficult to have the latest AAA games run properly. And I like to purchase a game without fearing it might not run well. I know Steam can give refunds, but the fact this feature exists shows how PC gaming is random.

I agree with it, but the thing is I looked longer term.  Take for instance my current Clevo/Sager gaming laptop, while it is a laptop every part pops off and slots in like an actual PC tower/desktop.  I dropped $1500+warranty 8.5yrs ago now.  During that time we went from PS3 into the PS5 for perspective and in the middle a 4 and 4 Pro.  I have a 3ghz i7 chip, an nvidia 980M 8GB GPU (equal to a 970 desktop with more ram), and 16GB of system memory too.  Running at 1080p for perspective I can utterly destroy PS3 and PS4 stuff, and PS4pro I can match and marginally exceed.  If I could upgrade the GPU at this rate(can't) I could have kept up with PS5 even but the 980 lacks the newer raytracing etc graphical flourishes made since.  Had I kept a PC like a mobile device just for basics and gamed alone... I'd have been into a PS3 for $500 same with a PS4, 4Pro too... that's basically even for nothing but a gaming box.  I would have ended up paying a lot more for games in their walled garden environment where as on steam/gog quarterly sales on new goods drop them usually 20% and as they age (6-12+mo old) they go for 50-80% off.  Add that up over a healthy gaming habit to saving hundreds or more a year in game costs.

 

SO maybe you're right, the PC is more expensive, up front, but cost over time it's cheaper and more economical.  And that's not even figuring it for movies, productivity apps, internet usage, photo/video editing, design, creation, etc.  And you're right sometimes you could have a concern, but steam and others give a refund window...consoles don't.  You buy it, and the game runs bad, hope they patch it, or if you hate it...tough shit, no refunds, period.

[Steven Pendleton]

I'm still running stuff like Death Stranding Director's Cut at max settings flawlessly on my ancient-ass PC with a GPU from 2016 and a CPU from 2017, and I bought one of them used, although I no longer remember which one it was. It actually runs Relayer better than the PS5 does, as I've noticed severe slowdown on PS5 that isn't there at all on the PC, even though the PS5 was the lead development platform.

 

It's possible that other games will run better on PS5 than my PC, but it's still super hilarious that an old PC that I built with used parts considerably outperforms a brand-new console that I bought like 2 months ago. Those weird anti-PC humans would have you believe that consoles are perfect or whatever, but seeing the PS5 struggle and fail to do stuff that my old PC can do effortlessly makes me quite pleased that my PC still keeps up with and surpasses modern consoles. Death Stranding Director's Cut is probably the most modern game that I have and definitely the most demanding game that I have and I am not planning on buying anything super demanding in the future, but it will be interesting to see how my PC scales in the future.

 

As for the Switch, it really struggles to run things like Shin Megami Tensei V, and both Metroid Dread and Metroid Prime Remastered run at sub-native resolutions to keep their framerates up. Apparently even some of the newer Nintendo-developed games run and look like shit, but I the only Nintendo things that I care about are Metroid and Fire Emblem, so I don't know. That really shouldn't be the case since Alien: Isolation and the Metroid games look nice and run well on Switch, but hardware sales are decreasing and developers are quite plainly having extreme difficulty with hardware limitations, so at this point the Switch is probably at or even perhaps beyond the end of its practical life span as a development platform for modern games. Meanwhile, PC is eternal, PS4 games (mostly) work on PS5, and only Nintendo knows if its next system will support Switch games.

 

Oh yeah, I always forget Xbox exists since we don't really have that system in this country. It has some form of backwards compatibility, I guess. Not sure how it works, but that's apparently slightly more future-proof than PS4 running on PS5 or something like that.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Tanooki]

@Steven Pendleton Nice to see that we have more agreement on the subject, mine is a 2014 setup maybe the chip(cpu) is a year earlier, don't really care in the end, but seeing what I have, and what you're getting in results it's a clown car of foolish comments when I see people dump on the PC anymore when it comes to console gaming.  They get largely the better copies, the games cost less, run better, they're not stuck to a single chunk of outdated out of the box "new" hah hardware.  Sure it's more pain up front, but if you're buying a new PC roughly every 8 years or so, that's a couple console generations easily so it balances it out.

 

Switch just is its own little island.  I've been aware of the upgrade coming on that one very vague details from my brother (worked as a third party of Nintendo) for a time now, but with the virus, shitty part shortages, and continued insane sales of Switch they just let it rot and wait.  I don't know if it really is hardware sequel as much as a beef up liek they do with handhelds where you double this quadruple that, but even that from what is there now would be a huge improvement capable of much more than what is there now to keep the developers happy.

[roots.genoa]

Well, good for you if your old PC runs (some specific) games flawlessly, but I've never seen a game run properly on any PC I got during my whole life. There's always at least screen tearing, a few frame skips or sound hiccups. While games always run fine on consoles. Yes, the framerate is not necessarily perfect and the resolution to its fullest, but it's usually a lot more stable. Maybe because it doesn't run web browsers and OS stuff at the same time. 🤷‍♂️

Taking Death Stranding as an example is not very convincing imho, because console ports either run very badly, or very well in my experience. And it's a PS4 game (a pretty one though), so it's far from being the more demanding game you could play on a PC right now. Try Cyberpunk for instance. 🙂 But I'm quite tired to talking PC gaming with people who don't really play a lot of modern games anyway, so they have no idea what they're talking about. I know a French guy who also considers PC is king but he only plays retro stuff, so that's completely irrelevant.

 

Also the for the last time, it's obvious the next Nintendo system will play Switch games. Doing otherwise would be shooting themselves in the foot. Stop trolling Steven. You already did it for Analogue and you were wrong. 😒

[Steven Pendleton]

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I've never seen a game run properly on any PC I got during my whole life.

Then you're doing something wrong. Here, let me help you

 

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

There's always at least screen tearing

Use V-sync, G-sync, FreeSync, or a VRR monitor

 

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

a few frame skips

Turn shadows down slightly

 

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

sound hiccups

Get a sound card

 

  

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Taking Death Stranding as an example is not very convincing imho, because console ports either run very badly, or very well in my experience. And it's a PS4 game (a pretty one though), so it's far from being the more demanding game you could play on a PC right now. Try Cyberpunk for instance. 🙂 But I'm quite tired to talking PC gaming with people who don't really play a lot of modern games anyway, so they have no idea what they're talking about. I know a French guy who also considers PC is king but he only plays retro stuff, so that's completely irrelevant.

Then do you have any suggestions for what I should play? I am always looking for new things. There are a few things that I do still need to get, like the Dead Space remake, although I am not really sure if I like Isaac's new design that much, not that it really matters, I guess. Edit: Aw damn it it has Denuvo. Well, so much for that, I guess. The one downside of PC: Denuvo. Great way to greatly reduce my interest in something...

 

Please no open world... I find those games to be incredibly dull. I only bought Death Stranding because Kojima, and I only played Horizon Zero Dawn because I somehow got it for free, although I'm still not really sure how.

 

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Also the for the last time, it's obvious the next Nintendo system will play Switch games.

Prove it. I think it will too and I hope it does, but we don't know yet. I believe you said some time ago to always buy tech based on what is known about its capabilities in the present and not hypothetical possibilities, so I'm guessing you have some sort of inside information or something.

 

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Stop trolling Steven. You already did it for Analogue and you were wrong. 😒

What the hell are you even talking about? Did they fix something? If they did, it's probably because I used the powers of my awesomeness to raise peoples' awareness of the issues and Analogue finally fixed it, so if anything, I should be given credit. If you want trolling, go to the Super Nintendo section and have some fun with that lifeform Kirk as he does a pretty damn good Tommy Tallarico impression in that section.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Steven Pendleton]

11 hours ago, Tanooki said:

@Steven Pendleton Nice to see that we have more agreement on the subject, mine is a 2014 setup maybe the chip(cpu) is a year earlier, don't really care in the end, but seeing what I have, and what you're getting in results it's a clown car of foolish comments when I see people dump on the PC anymore when it comes to console gaming.  They get largely the better copies, the games cost less, run better, they're not stuck to a single chunk of outdated out of the box "new" hah hardware.  Sure it's more pain up front, but if you're buying a new PC roughly every 8 years or so, that's a couple console generations easily so it balances it out.

 

Switch just is its own little island.  I've been aware of the upgrade coming on that one very vague details from my brother (worked as a third party of Nintendo) for a time now, but with the virus, shitty part shortages, and continued insane sales of Switch they just let it rot and wait.  I don't know if it really is hardware sequel as much as a beef up liek they do with handhelds where you double this quadruple that, but even that from what is there now would be a huge improvement capable of much more than what is there now to keep the developers happy.

Yeah, my old PC still works fine. All I need to do is put a new GPU in if I really want to upgrade, and I can get an older GPU if I wanted to. People are still running games at max on the 1080Ti and stuff, but I have just the regular 1080. I really regret not getting the Ti, as that has scaled incredibly well from what I have heard. I didn't think it was worth the extra cash at the time, but now I regret it. Oh well.

 

If I'm being honest, though, after Battlefield V was a huge mess, I more or less gave up on modern games, which is why I haven't upgraded since 2017. I'll still pick stuff up on occasion, but I don't really see many things that are super interesting must-have games anymore, my PC has scaled far better than expected, and new games in Japan are ridiculously expensive regardless of platform, with stuff costing 7000~10000 yen new, so it's kind of like... yeah. Not especially appealing + expensive = nope. That's why I got into PC Engine, Saturn, Neo Geo, and older arcade games. Never played that stuff before and disappointed with a lot of modern stuff, so might as well go back and play the stuff that I missed, which was a lot. I do still need to go buy that new Fire Emblem, though...

 

As for whatever Nintendo does next, I hope it's just a Switch with more Blast Processing™, and I imagine that is exactly what it will be. Only Nintendo knows, but we'll see. I imagine that whatever tech they used to make the Switch has vastly improved versions available now, so it will be cool to see it. Apparently the games that are on Switch and compatible with the Steam Deck are a toss up as to which way to play is better; some are better on Switch and some are better on Steam Deck, so who knows. I haven't looked at mobile hardware at all, so I am not sure what phones and stuff are capable of these days.

[roots.genoa]

Thanks for your advice, but it sucks. First, I shouldn't have to spend time tweaking every setting to play a game. If you think that's part of the game, good for you, but we clearly don't have the same hobby. Second, I know about V-sync obviously but, for some reason, there's still screen tearing even if it's activated. My theory is PCs are not made for video games, which is a fact.

 

3 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

What the hell are you even talking about? Did they fix something? If they did, it's probably because I used the powers of my awesomeness to raise peoples' awareness of the issues and Analogue finally fixed it, so if anything, I should be given credit. If you want trolling, go to the Super Nintendo section and have some fun with that lifeform Kirk as he does a pretty damn good Tommy Tallarico impression in that section.

You claimed they would never update Mega Sg, Super Nt, and Nt Mini's firmware, and they just did. You conveniently disappeared from the FPGA topic and never apologized about being a dick. 🙂

 

Regarding the Switch, the proof is this system is a huge success, so losing all their current customers by releasing a non compatible product would be a stupid mistake. Every Nintendo system has been retrocompatible for a while, except the Switch - because the Wii U was a failure. Just use your brain for a change.

[Steven Pendleton]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

 

I should not have said this, but I did and now I regret it. I'm sorry.

 

I'm going to see myself out for the indefinite future.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Tanooki]

@Steven Pendleton Yeah the ti line seems to do that.  I'm looking at my new PC to be a ryzen cpu, and a 4070ti for the video because it may cost a few hundred more it has that huge jump in capability the 1-3 lines barely moved the needle on so it'll be one you can squat on for years to come like your 1080 and my 980.  Budget I'm allowing around 2k for the pc, as I still need a screen, keyboard, usb optical drive(I use my PC for movies and burning CDs to MP3s largely with some old games), and a usb SD card reader.  Within wiggle 16 or 32GB of ram, and a 1 or 2 TB SSD.  May have to stick with the 1TB ssd and just install what I use, leave the rest on my backup drive until needed.

 

I'm pretty thin on modern games, a good bit of it is that AAA doesn't mean quality anymore, it means what the bean counting liars and ad marketers tell you it is based on the tens of millions thrown at a project and how many 100s of drones worked on it.   AAA naming started in the 90s for games, and it was tied to stuff that really was the 9-10/10 rated games and it could have been made by 20 people or 100, a huge budget or something you'd call indie today.  I'll do a modern game, but the modern one may not be Dead Space Remastered as was mentioned and I've never done Horizon either or even the ever loved(do own it though because of the castlevania addition)Dead Cells.  My issue isn't so much bad games touted as good games as time, time and money.  My latest modern games have been all Switch -- Metroid, Kirby, Tears of the Kingdom.  And unlike a decade ago I don't feel like I'm missing out for better (likely) or worse(oh well.)

 

I know it was likely snark at genoa, but I do have an insider to the industry which originally was myself, but now it's a blood relative who worked their way up to producer at a rather large 3rd party publisher/developer company.  I get told stuff now and again either outright or if I ask.  That's why I do say what I do when I do, such as a switch successor is done and been waiting, though this long perhaps as costs come down it might get nudged up a bit who knows.  The unit would use Switch media, that's why I have less of a concern, and also why originally until my old switch started to fall apart due to bad nvidia plastic/heat design I was going to skip the OLED.  But due to that breakdown, shitty part shortages, the CCP virus I couldn't wait because Nintendo could due to those very problems.  What is coming is not so much a new system per say but more of how they do their handhelds going back to the DMG to CGB upgrade up through the 3DS to New3DS style stuff.  You take what's there, get a compatible set of parts to run the previous still, but those new ones will boost capabilities on a magnitude of scale in various respects (speed, gpu, visual fluff, general bits and bobs.)  I'd think it being called a Switch Pro or some derivative bs is more likely than a Switch 2, even if they wanted to be dumbasses again using 'New' like the 'New Switch' would fit even if it's not exactly new.  And this bump would give the hardware quite a few more years to go.  In that respect people could keep using the old, and stuff capable to work on the old on newer cards, yet then you'll not have a hybrid card (the transparent GBC cart effect) that only work on the newest hardware.  That is, should be, will be where Nintendo goes unless all the global fuckery/illness of the last few years didn't flip the table on that.

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I'd think it being called a Switch Pro or some derivative bs is more likely than a Switch 2, even if they wanted to be dumbasses again using 'New' like the 'New Switch' would fit even if it's not exactly new.

I really hope they won't call it a Switch Pro. I always thought "Pro" sounded stupid for a video game console. I know pro gamer is a thing, but still.

[Tanooki]

6 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I really hope they won't call it a Switch Pro. I always thought "Pro" sounded stupid for a video game console. I know pro gamer is a thing, but still.

I don't either, I just know the hardware exists and I guess is more or less done, subject to change how much it's delayed would be my guess as prices and parts in value come down.  I don't like Pro, but I'd hate the use of 'NEW' again as that was secondary level stupid only to the WiiU... is it a Wii, is it for U, what about Me?  Maybe it's an accessory, an optional tablet?

[roots.genoa]

4 hours ago, Tanooki said:

I don't either, I just know the hardware exists and I guess is more or less done, subject to change how much it's delayed would be my guess as prices and parts in value come down.  I don't like Pro, but I'd hate the use of 'NEW' again as that was secondary level stupid only to the WiiU... is it a Wii, is it for U, what about Me?  Maybe it's an accessory, an optional tablet?

If I knew I would give you yet an opportunity to crap on the Wii U... 😔

 

And it will be called the 3DSWitch for obvious reasons. 😤

[RangerS]

I highly perfer buying on Switch if performance and price were the same. PC tends to have better sales+Better performance+moddable. So if performance and mods are a concern, I'll go PC but generally am willing to pay a tad more to have it on a handheld that I can take with me instead of just on my PC.

[MrMaddog]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:13 AM, English Invader said:

I haven't really used Steam much since I got an XBox 360 in 2016.  All the games I struggled to run on my ageing Linux rig ran flawlessly on the 360 and since then I've preferred a service where everything just works.  PC Gaming is the Wild West of the games market; fine if you're Clint Eastwood or John Wayne but not much good for the rest of us.

 

The only current gen system I have is the Switch.  Physical media and short download times for updates and installs wins every time.  After the 360, everything in the Sony-Microsoft arena went insane.

 

That was exactly why I bought a 360 years ago, because I was getting tired of the shoddy console ports made for the PC and also to play online with my friends.

 

Then I got an Xbox One not only as a console upgrade but to use as a home theater PC with streaming & UWP apps, as well as being able to stream Xbox games to my PC downstairs.  But of course Microsoft started making stupid choices and now not only is it not worth for non-gaming purposes but I have to get a wired connection (meaning MOCA adapters) just to stream games between the PC & Xbox w/o problems...and yet cloud gaming works much better than playing off a local Xbox so go figure.

 

I'm still a PC gamer primary though, and to be honest I'm much more excited about new games coming out for the VCS (also available on Steam) than on modern consoles.  The whole gaming industry is just full of so much drama it makes my headache reading about it.

 

I'd still like to have a Switch for the Japanese games not available for Steam however...