SIDE2 Problems

[TGB1718]

As @flashjazzcat has just released the latest SIDE firmware, I decided to upgrade my SIDE2, I only really use this in a stock

800XL or 130XE, I have a SIDE3 with my 130XE U1M working fine.

 

The problem I have is if I boot into the loader to mount the .ATR to flash the SIDE2 I can't see any .ATR files, is this right or does there

need to be a U1M installed for it to work ? 

I can see folders and .XEX files which do load ok so it seems it's working ok. I also tried the CF card from my Incognito and that

does exactly the same thing.

 

Try as I might I can't seem to find the user instructions for SIDE2.

 

So if I'm right that it won't work without a U1M, how do I upgrade the firmware ?

I've tried everything even making a large .ATR and mounting on S-Drive, but I get a framing error

when trying to access the disk probably because it's too big for the S-Drive as it mounts ok in Altirra.

[flashjazzcat]

You can put UFLASH.XEX and the ROM on the FAT partition and run UFLASH straight from the SIDE2 loader if your machine has 1MB anyway. Turn off U1MB's SDX and PBI BIOS, and boot straight into the loader on the cart, or boot into SDX on the cart and type 'CAR'.

 

[TGB1718]

Many thanks for your reply, just tried and it looks like I may have some sort of issue with my SIDE2

 

When I load UFLASH,XEX it says "Unidentified Hardware" "Select Manually ?"

 

When I select SIDE2 it says "Device not Present"

 The Loader version on my SIDE2 is Version 4, 2021

 

 

If I put the switch in the DOWN position and boot, SDX loads ok and all my partitions read fine.

Not sure what's going on

 

Incidentally when SDX boots, it says the SIDE Loader is version4.03 (c)2020

 

[flashjazzcat]

Let me have a look into this in case there's another bug in UFLASH.

 

[flashjazzcat]

Right: I put UFLASH.XEX on the FAT, disabled SDX and PBI HDD on U1MB, power cycled, SDX booted off the SIDE2. Typed 'CAR', loader started up, I run UFLASH.XEX and it automatically detected SIDE2. How should I replicate the issue?

[flashjazzcat]

27 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

Incidentally when SDX boots, it says the SIDE Loader is version4.03 (c)2020

That's the SIDE driver for SDX (SIDE.SYS), not the loader, BTW.

[TGB1718]

I have managed to flash it, but only by using my U1M 130XE, just booted to SDX and ran UFLASH.XEX from D1:

 

I couldn't do anything without U1M on my stock machines.

 

Although I still can't see any .ATR files even with the U1M machine, but that's probably because it's BIOS

has been flashed to use SIDE3, it doesn't like the SIDE2 Cart

 

[Beeblebrox]

@TGB1718  I flashed my SIDE a couple of days back but you need SIO2PC to mount the ATR if you are flashing from a stock machine.

 

Am I right in that you are trying to mount the new firmware ATR from the CF card from the SIDE2 on a stock machine? You can't mount the large ATR this way and also Uflash needs the 1MB.

 

You need SIO2PC to mount it off your Windows PC/laptop, then use the SIDE2.com from DLT to flash it if a stock machine is being used.

 

If you are flashing it from an U1MB machine then the same video I linked to in the thread below shows you various ways to do it.

 

See here:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Beeblebrox]

6 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

I have managed to flash it, but only by using my U1M 130XE, just booted to SDX and ran UFLASH.XEX from D1:

 

I couldn't do anything without U1M on my stock machines.

 

Although I still can't see any .ATR files even with the U1M machine, but that's probably because it's BIOS

has been flashed to use SIDE3, it doesn't like the SIDE2 Cart

 

replies crossed over.

 

Great you used the U1MB A8 to do it. Yeah all the methods of flashing on upgraded.stock machines are covered in that video, including the one you have used. You can't do it on a stock A8 off the CF card without something like SIO2PC to mount the ATR and the SIDE2.com flasher to flash it.

 

With the SIDE2 ATRs presumably it will be fine on that U1MB machine when you flash the SIDE2 plugin?  (If it is expecting a SIDE3 I'd imagine that is why the ATRs aren't showing up(?) 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

8 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

I couldn't do anything without U1M on my stock machines.

Weird. UFLASH.XEX launched directly from the SIDE Loader on a 1MB machine without U1MB also detects the SIDE2 without problems for me.

[TGB1718]

4 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

With the SIDE2 ATRs presumably it will be fine on that U1MB machine when you flash the SIDE2 plugin?

Hi Beeb  the U1M is solely for SIDE3, even though it did allow me to flash the SIDE2.

 

Should I be able to see the .ATR's on a stock machine with a SIDE2, I just can't remember ?

[flashjazzcat]

The SIDE2 loader doesn't support ATRs without U1MB PBI HDD support. But you don't need to use an ATR at all on any 1MB machine, since UFLASH can read the ROM file straight from a FAT partition when launched directly from the SIDE Loader. I have no idea why this isn't working for you.

 

[TGB1718]

I'll give it another go in my U1M machine

 

EDIT: with SIDE2 in my U1M I can't see any disk partitions, SIO is fine and no .ATR's in the loader

bear in mind I have flashed this with the SIDE3 update, so not sure if it would work with a SIDE2

Edited January 27, 2023 by TGB1718

[Beeblebrox]

51 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

bear in mind I have flashed this with the SIDE3 update, so not sure if it would work with a SIDE2

@TGB1718I read this and just to double check you have flashed the new firmware update for the SIDE/SIDE2 loader to your SIDE2:

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side/

 

...and not the new update for the SIDE3 loader to your SIDE2:

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3/

 

I read your above post and initially assumed you meant SIDE3 plugin (eg for your U1MB) rather than the SIDE3 update

 

Just double checking. (I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done this and also I would imagine you are not be able to flash the SIDE2 cart with the SIDE3 firmwre.... but worth asking).

[flashjazzcat]

58 minutes ago, TGB1718 said:

bear in mind I have flashed this with the SIDE3 update, so not sure if it would work with a SIDE2

It would not, no.

 

We're conflating terms here, though. Neither loader (SIDE2 or SIDE3) relies on APT partition support in order to display FAT partitions. What I did was put UFLASH.XEX into a FAT16 or FAT32 partition (completely disregarding APT; it could be media with no APT present at all), stick it into the SIDE2, run the tool directly from the SIDE loader's file browser, and then - when it detected SIDE2 - browse to the ROM file. This is possible because when you run an XEX from the SIDE/SIDE3 loader it installs a CIO disk operating system which works with the FAT filesystem (SIDE3's happens to be read/write, but SIDE2's DOS is read-only). No need for ATR support, SpartaDOS X, or anything at all (so it doesn't rely on having an SIO storage device, a means of mounting disk images, or having the correct PBI BIOS installed).

Edited January 27, 2023 by flashjazzcat

[SviRu]

I will hijack this one. I have SIDE2 with FJC fw. It works on one of my 800XL, does not work on another 800XL and A8. It sees menu, loader but contents of the CF card are not there. Like there was no CF card. Any ideas? All my ataris are functional and work with normal carts etc. 

Sparta DOS works on all. There is a problem with CF card. Is that hardware related or problem with FW? 

[flashjazzcat]

It's hardware related.

[Beeblebrox]

4 hours ago, SviRu said:

does not work on another 800XL and A8

Could you confirm what you mean by A8 as that is a generic term for the Atari 8bit. 

 

I was wondering if you mean an 800 by saying A8? 

 

If this was a side3 in a stock 800xl I'd say replace the 74ls08 with a 75f08 in the first instance, then if still an issue, try swapping out the CPU. But this is a a side2 cart. 

 

 

[Peri Noid]

18 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

If this was a side3 in a stock 800xl I'd say replace the 74ls08 with a 75f08 in the first instance

For Side2 it's the same story. 

[flashjazzcat]

Brand of CF card can also be a factor.

[Beeblebrox]

39 minutes ago, Peri Noid said:

For Side2 it's the same story. 

ah, interesting, I thought it was only Side3 that was affected with the 74LS08 timing issue. In which case @SviRu perhaps in this order as people have suggested:

 

1)Try a different CF card with the 800XL you are having issues with (where if you running it ok with the other 800XL and A8 (whatever you mean by A8?) - I'd imagine that is unlikely to be the issue(?) - although I could be wrong).Either way an easy thing to test.

2) Try swapping the 74LS08 for the 74F08 (hopefully your 800XL is a socketed Hong Kong made machine).

3) Try swapping out the 6502 CPU for another, preferably one which is a different manufacturer (see here)

 

 

 

Edited January 30 by Beeblebrox

[SviRu]

18 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

ah, interesting, I thought it was only Side3 that was affected with the 74LS08 timing issue. In which case @SviRu perhaps in this order as people have suggested:

 

1)Try a different CF card with the 800XL you are having issues with (where if you running it ok with the other 800XL and A8 (whatever you mean by A8?) - I'd imagine that is unlikely to be the issue(?) - although I could be wrong).Either way an easy thing to test.

2) Try swapping the 74LS08 for the 74F08 (hopefully your 800XL is a socketed Hong Kong made machine).

3) Try swapping out the 6502 CPU for another, preferably one which is a different manufacturer (see here)

 

 

 

1. I will indeed try different brand CF card. Just out of curiosity. 800XLF works fine. Older 800XL is problematic. By A8.... just A800 without XL. The OG one :). 

2. I will try to order 74F08.

3. Down on the list. I hope 1 and 2 will solve the problem. Lotharek responded that I should replace 74F08. It sucks a bit that this is even a thing with SIDE2/3. Kind of disappointing :).

[Beeblebrox]

15 minutes ago, SviRu said:

1. I will indeed try different brand CF card. Just out of curiosity. 800XLF works fine. Older 800XL is problematic. By A8.... just A800 without XL. The OG one :). 

2. I will try to order 74F08.

3. Down on the list. I hope 1 and 2 will solve the problem. Lotharek responded that I should replace 74F08. It sucks a bit that this is even a thing with SIDE2/3. Kind of disappointing :).

1) 800xlf is effectively an XE as it has a Freddie chip. Aside that machine to machine each can have their quirks. 

2) f08s - they are dirt cheap. I buy 4 at a time at less than £5. 

3) yup, hopefully it'll be 1 or 2.

 

As for needing to install the f08 in the first place it's been debated a lot. My take on this is simple. We are using modern tech with retro tech and not all retro tech is created equally. I've had 800xl's that run my side3 with no issues, and won't run on another identical stock 800xl.  The f08 is a cheap way to potentially resolve the issue. (aok it takes socketing a non socketed machine which is a pain for some). Where it isn't a solution, there you have a possible cpu swap needed. Or these is the O2 fixer which is a new alternative to replacing the 74ls08.

 

Also as mentioned A8 is generally used as a term for all the  Atari 8 bit line home computers, which is why it threw me Heh Heh. The Atari 800 is usually known as the A800 in abbreviation. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong @flashjazzcat, but I thought side2 won't work on a stock 48k Atari 800 anyway as I thought the side2, (like Side3), requires an arari 8bit with at least 64k of ram to work? Perhaps that is just side3? 

 

Edited January 30 by Beeblebrox

[+Stephen]

13 minutes ago, SviRu said:

3. Down on the list. I hope 1 and 2 will solve the problem. Lotharek responded that I should replace 74F08. It sucks a bit that this is even a thing with SIDE2/3. Kind of disappointing :).

SIDE 3 was supposed to fix all the timing issues that some (and it does seem a very low percentage) of SIDE 2 had.  As it has turned out, SIDE 3 has way more compatability / timing issues.  I never had a problem with any of my SIDE 1 or 2 carts on at least 8 different machines I own.  SIDE 3 had issues on 3 of them.  To make matters even worse, a few weeks after I ordered it, I learn of an upgraded version 3.1.  It's honestly left a pretty bad taste in my mouth so to speak for version 3.

[Beeblebrox]

7 minutes ago, Stephen said:

SIDE 3 was supposed to fix all the timing issues that some (and it does seem a very low percentage) of SIDE 2 had.  As it has turned out, SIDE 3 has way more compatability / timing issues.  I never had a problem with any of my SIDE 1 or 2 carts on at least 8 different machines I own.  SIDE 3 had issues on 3 of them.  To make matters even worse, a few weeks after I ordered it, I learn of an upgraded version 3.1.  It's honestly left a pretty bad taste in my mouth so to speak for version 3.

True, this has also been raised and debated a lot. One things that has been suggested is having all side3 owners who have issues getting a free O2 fixer. 

 

I sold my side3 bought in 2031 to buy my side3.1, in 2022