32X talk

[+atari2600land]

Someone is selling 32X games that I've never heard of. Like Virtual Hamster, or Pinocchio. Are these actual prototypes or what? Also, what happened to that Santa Claus game someone was making for the 32X. I wanted to buy it, but it looks like it's never going to get finished

[Tanooki]

The one you linked specifically says it's a prototype that they're making illegal copies of to sell right in the open, which shows how much ebay cares unless someone directly complains about a listing.

[+atari2600land]

So if the 32X did better, it might have had a pinocchio game. Interesting.

[+Cafeman]

Are you aware of the same Pinocchio game on Genesis?  The 32x prototype has extra graphical effects and colors but they appear otherwise identical. It's graphically a very nice effort on Genesis. 

[+atari2600land]

I was aware a Pinocchio game was for SNES and GB, so it doesn't surprise me that there's a Genesis version.

[boog]

It's not just the 32x games, most of this seller's ebay listings are pirated games and hacks burned to carts. Listing of 'SMB for sega genesis' to hide from 'Mario' search results that might get them reported. Also has a few fake case inserts and labels available for counterfeit resellers and shelf queens. I don't think ebay even cares about shady sellers anymore... as long as they get their cut.

[Tanooki]

Yeah they don't.  I've had a fun time scouring the place for all sorts of *hah* 'reproduction' stuff, so f'ing tired of that scam of a morality dodge -- THEY'RE BOOTLEGS, PIRATE CARTS... always were called as such, or at minimally a clone(famiclone) going back to the damned 1980s on console and gameboy style stuff.

 

This guy is either buying quality boards/stickers/plastics from aliexpress and making it himself or prefabricated, either works given the margins.

 

I mean there is legally speaking plenty wrong with it, but non-legally though ...there's usually nothing wrong with it either because you can end up with unreleased games, prototypes of nearly done games, multicarts with some fun of odd unique variety, aftermarket period era unlicensed gems like Sachen stuff, and then the realm of english translated goods of Japanese things we lost out on to crazy hacks to improve a game (like the SA1 hack to make Hard Drivin on SNES run at like 30fps or Gradius III to remove the slowdowns and flickers.)

 

Ebay is the best and still the worst source though, plenty of supply but due to ebays FVF racket and needing to make money you'll pay like 3x the price of aliexpress to get stuff unless you go direct from china on there, then it's around domestic etsy (about double) again due to fees.  At double it's about the risk of damaged goods/returns to/back to china on the slow boat vs having it in under a week and covered if damaged.

 

Ultimately it's up to you if you want a working prototype or finished title we lost out on.  I don't think it was there (ebay) but I did get Bound High back in 2019 for Virtual Boy on there for around $50 I think, not bad given you have to sacrifice a real cart since no one was making those unique pin connectors/board combos.  Etsy with dumb luck again VB I got the original yellow PCB limited release of Hyper Fighting (SF2T Hyper Edition) for the red beast too which is a homebrew though sketchy using Capcom assets directly or copied either way.

 

 

On 32X, my suggestion, if you want something fun, sketchy due to IP, and fixes a really unjust wrong of the era, look up DOOM Resurrection.  They took the god awful game that was sold, scrapped it, fixed up a lot of the problems and made it pretty DOS accurate to the original PC release with quality visuals, quality audio vs the ear murder 32x had, upped the frame rate too, made it a super quality release albeit decades late proving the hardware could handle it with a competent developer that had proper time to work on it without bean counters and corporate twits interfering as often as it is in the game industry.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Tanooki

[Steven Pendleton]

Don't buy bootlegs. Better to either illegally download the ROM(s) and use an emulator or run the ROMs using a ROM-loading cartridge, as you'll at least know that the cart quality isn't complete garbage unless you're using a bootleg Everdrive or whatever, and you shouldn't buy those Everdrive bootlegs either because they apparently don't work properly. So, basically, don't buy bootlegs.

[+atari2600land]

I was on side Nintendo during the Nintendo/Sega war, so I'm not sure about something. I have a question. Did the 32X not do very well? Why are most of the games at least $60 on eBay and elsewhere? My local game store was selling a copy of Knuckles for $190! I had both Knuckles and Kolibri at some point but I sold them off both when I was getting rid of my 32X games, something I regret. I bet I got a ton of money for them both. I'm trying to buy stuff back but it's hard when the prices are sooo ridiculously high.

[Tanooki]

@atari2600land nope, sold pretty crappily.  Despite the install base being 5 years on at that rate (Gen/MD 1989) and 32X came out in 1994, they tried to push it from 1994 through 1996 and barely cleared 800,000 units, that's it.  It didn't help they didn't bother to try much either to push people to make games on it, didn't push it hard in advertising either, kept price dropping it which ruined even more confidence too, and in the end with all that bs they only had 40 games released in 2 years ...that's it, 40.  What is worse, 6/40 required also owning SegaCD to work as it needed it meaning really if you were anti-CD(or didn't care) you had 34 games possible.  It was less even then because select few titles only came out in the JP and PAL regions too, most were US based, so you probably more likely had access closer to 30 games in the US, as Japan had 1 exclusive, and PAL had 2.  If you look at the wikipedia, it had another 30 games in development/nearly done(whatever) canceled, which would have basically doubled the library.

 

The problem is the Sega ego got huge, they felt they could just keep peddling expensive add-ons, the CD, then the 32X, and then the 32X imploded and CD fell off too.  So they rushed out the Saturn 6mo early which really shit the bed because they infuriated developers and retailers so they lost a lot of support there, then more from gamers because they felt betrayed too getting suckered into 2 expensive add-ons (CD 1992, 32X 1994) which combined were $500 between them on top of buying the Genesis/MD first.  This was getting into 3DO territory as laughable pricing on a console.

 

Also keep in mind, it was a pig setup too. While there are modern solutions just in the last couple of years, back in the 1990s you needed a POWER BRICK *AND* RCA CABLE for the Genesis + CD + 32X.  It not only was the tower of power, but the tower of pain.  You needed a switcher box and a well spread power strip just to use this cobbled beast of system.  These days people have made all in 1 power and RCA making it not a burden (other than the toxic retrogaming prices now.)

 

So the reason the 32X is expensive is that there were about as many of those as Virtual Boys, and it had a small library of just 40 potential games but realistically closer to 30 unless you have the CD drive add-on too.  32X also in many cases the games were barely upgrades, some were just utterly halfassed ports, yet some other games were just remarkably good, so it was a mix.  So for the lazier stuff the games NOW are cheap, but the good to utter quality releases the prices suck bad, not Sega CD/GDROM horrible, but up there.

 

Also the 32X had parts for its parts.  Depending on your model of system it had a supporting mount and a metal bracket, also a small jumper cable too, on top of the standard stuff, so when parts go missing you'll really eat it from a reseller getting the missing bits to where it's likely cheaper just to buy a complete (or CIB) one up front.

[Austin]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:14 PM, atari2600land said:

Did the 32X not do very well? Why are most of the games at least $60 on eBay and elsewhere? My local game store was selling a copy of Knuckles for $190! I had both Knuckles and Kolibri at some point but I sold them off both when I was getting rid of my 32X games, something I regret. I bet I got a ton of money for them both. I'm trying to buy stuff back but it's hard when the prices are sooo ridiculously high.

 

The 32X did not do well overall, though it did have some pretty decent traction at launch. According to Wikipedia, it looks like there are about 800,000 units out there, a large chunk of that sold in the early part of its life while the hype was still there and the games looked promising. Those numbers obviously aren't great.

 

We could tout a lot of reasons for its failure, but from my perspective its biggest was not having enough heavy-hitter titles that actually delivered on the hype in the beginning. DOOM for instance had the potential to be big, and it likely helped move units initially, but as we all know it was severely compromised compared to what was actually possible (as the modern DOOM 32X Resurrection project has shown us). It was an example of the classic Sega "rush-job" approach and this unfortunately plagued a lot of the library, both with first and third-party releases.

 

That's not to say the games were bad, as even a lot of those "rush-job" caliber games are fun, but few were "GOTTA HAVE IT" releases. Knuckles Chaotix was another that could have been a big one given the Sonic franchise's popularity at the time, but it is plagued with performance issues, mediocre stage design and odd mechanics that generally don't jive with players (I've always liked it quite a bit, but it's easy to see why most classic Sonic fans see it as a dud in a general sense). It needed more time in the oven and that was the case for many, many 32X games.

 

Funny enough, in hindsight the Sega CD had the exact same problem in the beginning. Sega had expected the tech to sell itself, but without quality software to support it, they lost a lot of whatever positive momentum they built up. At least the Sega CD came out at a time where competition in general was less stiff (the Jaguar and 3DO had yet to hit, and the PS1 and Saturn were still a ways off), unlike with when the 32X launched. The mid-'90s was a heavily saturated video games console market.

 

Regarding prices today, a bunch of the "commons" are still relatively affordable if you're aiming for cart-only. We're talking some of the earliest releases (DOOM, Star Wars Arcade, Virtua Racing, Cosmic Carnage, etc), but they can be had in the $15 to $25 range depending on where you get them from. Boxed and/or complete, the prices go up significantly, usually by at least two to three times if you are buying from retail establishments.

 

My guess regards to the prices going up is a combination of a variety of factors. For one, as with everything, the internet has likely played a role in exposing people to its library, and those with a genuine interest in this hobby have decided they finally want to partake in it and appreciate some of the solid titles it has to offer. I mean, Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter are pretty damn good for what they are, and there are quite a few other interesting games and conversions as well. Second, you have the exact same reasons as you have with other platforms, and it's that collectors want to collect, and resellers will continue to pump up the aftermarket prices as long as collectors are continuing to pay them (which they are). Until people stop feeling the need to buy this stuff, the prices will not come down. It's sad, but true.

 

A lot of us have been preaching this for a long time, but it's best to get into flash carts if your goal is to just play on real hardware. A Mega Everdrive X3 is about $50 and you can load 32X games onto it. If you have to collect for whatever reason, you'll have to accept that the prices on some of the more obscure things probably won't be coming down anytime soon. Or, focus your collecting efforts on more available platforms that are more affordable.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Austin

[+jgkspsx]

By and large the most expensive games on the 32X (Pitfall, World Series Baseball, Spiderman) are also the worst.

 

Buy these for sure if you like the genre:

Virtua Fighter

Metal Head

Virtua Racing Deluxe

Cosmic Carnage

Space Harrier

Afterburner Complete

Kolibri (expensive but essential)

Shadow Squadron

Star Wars Arcade

NBA Jam TE

Mortal Kombat 2

Star Trek: Starfleet Academy Bridge Simulator

 

Try to get these if you have money to spend:

T-MEK

Primal Rage

Tempo

Knuckles Chaotix

Blackthorne

WWF Wrestlemania (NBA Jam but wrestling)

FIFA 96

Zaxxon’s Motherbase 2000

 

Pick up for cheap:

WWF Raw

RBI Baseball

NFL Quarterback Club

Night Trap

Fahrenheit

Corpse Killer

Supreme Warrior

Slam City with Scotty Pippen

Doom

Golf Magazine presents 36 Great Holes with Fred Couples

Avoid unless you are a completist:

Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

Spiderman: Web of Fire

World Series Baseball

BC Racers

Brutal Above the Claw

Motocross Championship

Toughman Contest

[Tanooki]

Never owned, but used emulation off and on back in the 90s and early 00s and played quite a lot of the titles or at least tried them, and I'd agree with the above list.  The bad and worst of the worst definitely are in the full set territory there on the bottom.  I will say topping it in there both Star Trek and Wars are utterly fantastic, even if you're not a huge fan (or are) the play great and have some nice variety within their scope.

[+Gemintronic]

SecondBASIC from Second Dimension has some 32x support.  If you're interested in doing some homebrew..

 

https://www.sbasic.net/

[+atari2600land]

I am slowly but surely making a 32x library consisting of titles <$100. I downloaded SecondBASIC and made my first 32X ROM. Not only that, I actually got it to run on an emulator.

Here is my collection so far:

36 Great Holes

BC Racers

Cosmic Carnage

Doom

Metalhead

Motocross

NBA Jam

NFL QB Club

Shadow Squadron

Star Wars

Tempo

Toughman Contest

Virtua Fighter

Virtua Racing

WWF Raw

Zaxxon Motherbase

 

Here is a screenshot of my first 32X Rom:

It just oozes the need for a 32X, doesn't it?

How can I run this on a real 32X?

[+Gemintronic]

It looks like Everdrive flash carts also work for 32x.  I was going to try my MiSTer FPGA before hauling out a real unit.

[Mikebloke]

I've got a 32x and a everdrive if you need hardware testing. PAL of course, but I got them. 

[+atari2600land]

I decided to get rid of the 32x aspect of my game since SecondBasic has very limited 32x capabilities and so I am making a Genesis game. I ordered a Genesis everdrive so I should be able to test this on my Genesis pretty soon.

[Trinity32]

NBA Jam FTW

 

how limited are we talking?

[+atari2600land]

I bought Knuckles Chaotix. I know, I spent >$100. It's horrible. But I'm not gonna buy Kolibri because I had it once and I didn't understand what I was supposed to do. I'm supposing it wasn't a straight platformer like Knuckles.

[Steven Pendleton]

Yeah, Chaotix is complete trash outside of the awesome music, and I guess the graphics are pretty okay, although I have always disliked the way Knuckles looks in this game. It has no other redeeming aspects at all unless you count the ability to sell it for money.

 

Edit: no, that's a lie, actually; Vector's idle animation is excellent. All of his animations are, really.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Steven Pendleton

[Chilly Willy]

The key to enjoying Chaotix is to completely forget that it's related to the Sonic franchise. Treat it like a completely independent game, and don't expect it to play anything like any Sonic games, and maybe you'll like it better. I certainly do.

 

[Trinity32]

The 32X sounded like an Epic idea

Then Japan released the Saturn...

 

Honestly, Sega's deadline's for the game's should've been extended. Imagine doom 32X at launch. Gravis Ultrasound level music, more levels, enemies now scale accurately, vibrant colors...damn, maybe i'm reading too much into it but it was an epic concept and Japan had to crap all over it.

[Chilly Willy]

Sega of America wanted a low-end extension of the Genesis since it was super popular in the US still. They saw a market for low-end vs high-end, and the Saturn was going to be VERY high-end, well out of the range of most of the Genesis people SoA was trying to keep in the Sega camp. Sega of Japan wanted everything else to go away so they could force everyone onto the Saturn. No backwards compatibility, all new game library to build from scratch, and pricey new hardware. While SoA did win in their bid to get the 32X, and it had a phenomenal launch, SoJ bollixed things up royally by killing support for almost every other Sega platform out.

 

And it's easy to imagine what Doom 32X should have been like if Sega had given it the time needed to be done properly - just go get Doom 32X Resurrection and try it. That's what Sega COULD have done if they weren't in a tizzy to get Doom 32X out before Christmas.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_32X:_Resurrection

[Trinity32]

1 hour ago, Chilly Willy said:

Sega of America wanted a low-end extension of the Genesis since it was super popular in the US still. They saw a market for low-end vs high-end, and the Saturn was going to be VERY high-end, well out of the range of most of the Genesis people SoA was trying to keep in the Sega camp. Sega of Japan wanted everything else to go away so they could force everyone onto the Saturn. No backwards compatibility, all new game library to build from scratch, and pricey new hardware. While SoA did win in their bid to get the 32X, and it had a phenomenal launch, SoJ bollixed things up royally by killing support for almost every other Sega platform out.

 

And it's easy to imagine what Doom 32X should have been like if Sega had given it the time needed to be done properly - just go get Doom 32X Resurrection and try it. That's what Sega COULD have done if they weren't in a tizzy to get Doom 32X out before Christmas.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_32X:_Resurrection

well, technically, that was SOJ's fault, not SOA