Is The Cursed Knight possible on SNES?

[Kirk_Johnston]

 

I've heard a lot of people claim in recent times that the SNES couldn't run this Genesis game or that Genesis game because it's too complex for the system or it would just suffer slowdown on SNES because of its "slow" CPU, etc, which simply isn't true in 99% of cases. And, not only are these assertions coming from hadcore Genesis fans, they're even coming from SNES fans at times too, which is just very disappointing.

 

So, here's an idea for a series of articles looking at both old and new Sega Genesis games and analysing whether they could run on SNES or not--I'm here to prove they can--by providing examples of similar feats being achieved in actual SNES games, both old and new titles, plus any modern demos and the like where necessary.

 

The first game I want to try this with is The Cursed Knight, just because I was watching a playthrough of it when this idea popped into my head.

 

So, here we go, staring with footage of the game running on Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oteuW2vJDUQ

 

And now I will timestamp moments in the video and post some examples of SNES games doing basically the same thing to show that, yes, of course it could run on SNES:

 

In The Cursed Knight from 3:37 there's some nice parallax in the clouds plus the front layer of buildings, along with a little faux 3D on some of them.

 

So, using Scrambled Valkyrie on SNES and starting at 6:31, there's lots of parallax in those clouds along with a mid layer of mountains and the foreground land layer plus lots of rain falling too, and at 19:09 the background here has a full layer of stars scrolling horizontally at many different speeds, a middle layer of buildings, and a foreground layer of buildings.

 

And you can see lots of that faux 3D on the furniture in the foreground in the levels at 21:47 and 48:24 in Toy Story.

 

Next we can look at the rather cool boss at 12:27 in The Cursed Knight, with its neat tilting body effect.

 

Can the SNES do such an effect?

 

Well, here's an early boss in Contra III using the same method to tilt its body: https://youtu.be/MCu68aVipcc?t=253

 

The helicopter in this game uses the same method to tilt up and down too: https://youtu.be/nhTBFQpID2o?list=PLgzzAlT_CcFcECXyjvJpW3YMXiwyeQ29F&t=1042

 

And the rocking platforms during this boss battle use the same method also: https://youtu.be/xUSzffaVU7o?t=238

 

Not only can the SNES do this effect, but it can do it with a higher fidelity too, being able to vertically scroll columns every 8 pixels wide vs the Genesis that can only do it every 16 pixels.

 

Here's an interesting one in The Cursed Knight at 15:24, which uses the Genesis' highlight/shadow mode to make it look like the flying creatures are glowing and lighting up the background behind them.

 

OK, I think we all know the SNES has proper colour math for vastly superior lighting and transparency effects, but let's just make sure there's no doubt about it and show some examples of basically the same "shadow/highlight" effect to create simple light and dark areas on the background ground, overlaid transparent objects that are a different colour from the background, and multi-coloured transparent objects too:

 

Let's check this video at 1:16:42 and 2:20:12.

 

https://youtu.be/RVzjFr6gprg?t=3845

 

Both the flickering flames and the magic beam of light here: https://youtu.be/lMbWhoaDLKc?t=161

 

The whole level background and the final boss here show some great uses of the SNES semi-transparency: https://youtu.be/eIdJy7IxgeU?t=3337

 

Some nice semi-transparent bubbles at 2:07, lovely semi-transparent beakers at 19:20, and a nice glowing light effect at 34:43.

 

The level falling away effect in The Cursed Knight at 19:30 looks pretty neat, and surely the SNES can't do something like this, right:

 

https://youtu.be/F59TiwrECLo?t=387

 

Of course it can. And, as I mentioned earlier, with higher fidelity than on Genesis.

 

There's a nice parallax effect on the floor in The Cursed Knight at 22:47, which is the same thing as seen on the floor in Time Trax on SNES below:

 

https://youtu.be/nhTBFQpID2o?t=1044

 

Here's a nice parallax space background in The Cursed Knight at 25:58, with other level stuff in the foreground too, which we can see the SNES doing similarly below, but actually with twice as many fully-overlapping layers in total:

 

And something like it on SNES: https://youtu.be/IyrOCNQc_rs?t=65

 

Another similar example: https://youtu.be/7sfrauP3LNI?t=1731

 

How about a huge boss with a bit of faux 3D rotation, as seen in The Cursed Knight at 32:40. Can the SNES pull that off?

 

Well, here's SNES doing something pretty similar: https://youtu.be/fR9e9ZBUzI4?t=156

 

And this guy in Super Turrican 2 also: https://youtu.be/-T6trwLCyJY?t=1443

 

There's a rather cool-looking 3D parallax effect on the level at 34:46 in The Cursed Knight, and I can't recall an example of something specifically like this in any SNES game just not, but it's ultimately just two background layers and some line scrolling that's used to achieve this effect, so it's nothing that that SNES couldn't do. And, again, the SNES could also still have more colours, proper transparency and more background layers at the same time too.

 

This effect in R-type III is similar but just not using lots of line-scrolling at the same time to convey a more convincing illusion of 3D parallax:https://youtu.be/djW3WTEU-LE?t=64

 

And, as you can see, the SNES has no problem changing the line-scroll speed every scanline: https://youtu.be/CGNHrJIVXLA?t=225

 

It can just as easily change the line-scrolling every scanline on two layers at once too, with both the wavy background layers here using the same technique but just with a different visual effect/pattern ultimately: https://youtu.be/I7kJCfuHSwY?t=3570

 

The rotating boss at 42:24 in The Cursed Knight is just a bunch of animation frames, which can just as easily be replicated on SNES either the same way:

 

On SNES: https://youtu.be/iL2CCYGuKFY?t=278

 

Or it could be done a slightly different way on SNES using a scrolling background strip and window/shape mask, as I have done for the rotating Earth in my own Mode 0 test: https://youtu.be/IyrOCNQc_rs?t=50

 

What about that little spotlight effect at 50:21 in The Last Knight. Can the SNES do that:

 

Let's look at 8:53, and also a 2:44:18 for a lovely rainbow version of the same effect.

 

https://youtu.be/RNeED02vyCw?t=117

 

There's a rather large boss chasing the player up the screen at 53:49 in The Last Knight. How about something similar on SNES, is that possible:

 

https://youtu.be/MCu68aVipcc?t=1746

 

What about a large boss with a big fist attacking the player as seen at 55:06 in The Last Knight (and even the effect where he stretches vertically therehttps://youtu.be/f3W4fsaw5E8?t=778):

 

Check out this video at 12:58 and 17:03.

 

And what about a boss that's twice the height of the screen like at 57: 20 in The Last Knight. Would this be possible on SNES:

 

https://youtu.be/LDEl1-tuzc4?t=769

 

https://youtu.be/Tl7D25I6yDc?t=2586

 

https://youtu.be/vngCO9Y1aVo?t=449

 

Also, just in case there's any moment where anyone thinks the SNES wouldn't be able to put as much stuff on-screen without slowdown, here's the SNES showcase Rendering Ranger R2 demonstrating just what the stock system is capable of, and all while running in SlowROM at 2.68 MHz, which is only 75% of its full CPU speed:

 

Any moment in Rendering Ranger R2 is technically impressive, but I think 12:14 and 19:40 and 22:47 and 47:13 are standouts.

 

So, not only could this game run on SNES, but it could do so with far more colours throughout, more impressive transparency, more parallax layers in the background, more advanced audio, and additional controls [if necessary] to boot.

 

I think the thing that stands out the most in The Cursed Knight is simply the fact the developer has consciously tried to use some kind of neat graphical/visual trick in almost every level and on almost every boss.

 

So, just imagine what could be achieved on SNES if some modern-day indie/homebrew developer tried to create a new graphical showcase game for it in current times and approached it similarly. . . .

Edited February 2, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Tanooki]

A lot of rambling there, but up at the top...it's not a surprise.  Genesis fans still cling to their console war loss and console war mantra, and like any good nazi impersonator, there is a quote attributed but never proven to be said by their propaganda minister Goebbels.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

 

That basically is what is going on now and for awhile.  They will go to any length to bury the truth and keep the lie alive.

 

That basically sums up all the disinformation and slanderous trash spit out by fanboys on both sides of the aisle since the 1990s about the SNES and largely it's untrue.  The more and more people dig into it online now with a global community we lacked decades ago, people hacking to shreds every bit of various processors, boards, other chips, old tech docs and the rest it's quite clear the SNES was far more capable of what it did do, both while being restricted by bean counters back then, and unrestricted now by insane hobbyists that'll try anything just to see what will happen.

 

There's a lot of cases of where 'something like this' can be done on either or system, at least to varying if not total degrees.  Genesis may have a more lousy color and audio(by taste somewhat) audio output, but it has a good memory level and fast commonly well known CPU and audio processor to work from that helps, the more something is common the more people know how to squeeze more from it.  Great example the z80 of the old Gameboy, look at Super Mario Land, then also realize that Super Mario Land 2 or even later stuff with higher yet detail like the 2nd Gradius game or 3rd Castlevania title, Mega Man 5 even, etc.  You learn the limit, you massage the limit, you find stupid weird ways to even violate the limit that won't crash the hardware to a halt or a slow grind and go with it.

[SlidellMan]

Something like that can be doable on the Super NES, but it would require a heavy amount of assembly tricks. Optimizing for speed, loop unrolling, and every other clever demoscene trick.

[Kirk_Johnston]

10 hours ago, SlidellMan said:

Something like that can be doable on the Super NES, but it would require a heavy amount of assembly tricks. Optimizing for speed, loop unrolling, and every other clever demoscene trick.

I dunno which bit you mean specifically, but most of it that I can see is nothing more than pretty standard row/line scrolling and two background layers with sometimes a bit of priority shifting, which SNES does out the box and indeed can mostly be executed during HBlank using HDMA at very little cost at all (at least in terms of the background stuff). I'm not sure if that's what you mean, but I would hope any decent SNES programmer would know all of this pretty much as standard, if they're worth [probably] paying to do it, so I don't think it would/should be a huge ask for any of them. I'm certainly not seeing anything in the game above that would require going into any hardcore specialist hacky-type techniques and tricks on SNES though, at least not that I'm aware of. If you're just talking about basically standard SNES programming stuff, then sure and of course. I mean, it's some background scrolling, row scrolling, line scrolling, column scrolling, layer priority shifting, pretty standard sprite stuff and little else, and honestly, nothing that should genuinely tax the SNES' CPU in the slightest imo. There's no complex physics or sophisticated multi-jointed sprites or huge amounts of sprites on-screen at once or any stuff like that going on either. So, yeah, I struggle to see anywhere SNES would struggle here anyway. In fact, I think SNES could do all of the stuff we're seeing in The Cursed Knight and look and sound and potentially control better across the board while it's at it. Of course, until people start doing some new stuff like this on SNES, other people are going to have their doubts.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

10 hours ago, Tanooki said:

A lot of rambling there, but up at the top...it's not a surprise.  Genesis fans still cling to their console war loss and console war mantra, and like any good nazi impersonator, there is a quote attributed but never proven to be said by their propaganda minister Goebbels.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

 

That basically is what is going on now and for awhile.  They will go to any length to bury the truth and keep the lie alive.

 

That basically sums up all the disinformation and slanderous trash spit out by fanboys on both sides of the aisle since the 1990s about the SNES and largely it's untrue.  The more and more people dig into it online now with a global community we lacked decades ago, people hacking to shreds every bit of various processors, boards, other chips, old tech docs and the rest it's quite clear the SNES was far more capable of what it did do, both while being restricted by bean counters back then, and unrestricted now by insane hobbyists that'll try anything just to see what will happen.

 

There's a lot of cases of where 'something like this' can be done on either or system, at least to varying if not total degrees.  Genesis may have a more lousy color and audio(by taste somewhat) audio output, but it has a good memory level and fast commonly well known CPU and audio processor to work from that helps, the more something is common the more people know how to squeeze more from it.  Great example the z80 of the old Gameboy, look at Super Mario Land, then also realize that Super Mario Land 2 or even later stuff with higher yet detail like the 2nd Gradius game or 3rd Castlevania title, Mega Man 5 even, etc.  You learn the limit, you massage the limit, you find stupid weird ways to even violate the limit that won't crash the hardware to a halt or a slow grind and go with it.

Yeah, I did go off on one. But it was mainly because it was really just this post, which I didn't want to format all over again when it didn't come out quite right after posting it in here: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/02/02/is-the-cursed-knight-possible-on-snes/ It's still a long ramble, but it's a bit easier to follow everything when the videos are visible and any little comments and links are attached beneath them where necessary too.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Mittens0407]

20 hours ago, Tanooki said:

A lot of rambling there, but up at the top...it's not a surprise.  Genesis fans still cling to their console war loss and console war mantra, and like any good nazi impersonator, there is a quote attributed but never proven to be said by their propaganda minister Goebbels.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

All Genesis fans = Nazis? I'm glad to see Nazi comparisons are still in vogue on the internet. 

[Tanooki]

No. I did not say that.  I said some of them as fanboys act like a certain propaganda minister.  Keep up the lie until people believe it as truth.  Don’t twist my words.  I was calling out fanboy behavior tarnishing reality. 

[Kirk_Johnston]

29 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

No. I did not say that.  I said some of them as fanboys act like a certain propaganda minister.  Keep up the lie until people believe it as truth.  Don’t twist my words.  I was calling out fanboy behavior tarnishing reality. 

What part are you referring to in terms of you not saying something and/or me twisting your words?

 

Apologies if you think I'm somehow misinterpreting or misrepresenting what you were/are saying.

 

I was basically just agreeing that my original post was indeed a bit of ramble, as you said "A lot of rambling there", although it was mostly a bit messier to read through in here specifically because it was just a quick copy & paste of the actual original post I made in my blog, which I think it is a little nicer/easier to read through in its original formatting and stuff: https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2023/02/02/is-the-cursed-knight-possible-on-snes/

 

And I agree with the comment about [certain] fanboy behaviour tarnishing reality.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Tanooki]

It had nothing to do with you. You’re backing stuff off reasonably well. It was against those who insist to the point of making the lie reality for many the snes isn’t capable doing what genesis does. It’s crap. I own both buy both. It’s bs. 

[Kirk_Johnston]

11 minutes ago, Tanooki said:

It had nothing to do with you. You’re backing stuff off reasonably well. It was against those who insist to the point of making the lie reality for many the snes isn’t capable doing what genesis does. It’s crap. I own both buy both. It’s bs. 

Ah, cool cool. Yeah, I totally agree with you.

[Mittens0407]

1 hour ago, Tanooki said:

No. I did not say that.  I said some of them as fanboys act like a certain propaganda minister.  Keep up the lie until people believe it as truth.  Don’t twist my words.  I was calling out fanboy behavior tarnishing reality. 

It's a little known fact that Mr. Goebbels was actually a huge fan of Altered Beast.

[Tanooki]

@Mittens0407 Hah that explains a lot, so so much.