Intellivision James Bond 007

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:56 AM, lucifershalo said:

I will throw a stone in the lake,

but I think the conversion is pretty so-so

Agreed. Hate to be that guy, but all his ports are pretty so-so imho, and for as much as they cost, I kind of refuse to waste my money on mediocre ports, at least not on a physical copy anyway.

 

On 3/6/2023 at 9:34 PM, Greg2600 said:

Cool port.  lmk if he ever releases/sells a rom, I don't buy CIB anymore.

 

Sadly, I don't think that'll ever happen.. I've tried to get him to at least consider it, but unfortunately he doesn't seem very open to the idea, because it's supposedly not an "authentic old school experience", which is just nonsense. I totally get wanting to use the actual cartridge, overlays, etc & admire that shiny new the box on the shelf, but that "honeymoon phase" wears off pretty fast, at least for me anyway and if I can play that same game via flashcart, then that's the way I tend to go nowadays. Plus that saves wear & tear on my physical copy, but i digress. Oh well, is what it is I guess.

Edited March 24, 2023 by SiLic0ne t0aD

[vroby]

The games I develop use closed interrupts. On the emulator, this results in very annoying black screens. On physical machines, however, the game runs perfectly and at most there is a barely noticeable slowdown. This allows for more machine time during the intense phases of the game. 

 

Even Dino, who is not on Atari Age, adds this:

 

Let me introduce myself, I'm Dino Yachaya the producer of these games.
First of all, thank you Mike for the review, I accept both good and bad
comments.
I just wanted to share my homebrew philosophy with you.
The games we make are by choice aimed at reaching only 80k of memory
with boards without additional memory, what we want to try to make are
games that are as similar as possible to what they could have been in
the 80s.
Obviously our games can't be as beautiful and flashy as new homebrew
productions that also reach a very high capacity of memory, but this is
our philosophy, we wont to respect the limit of the original machine.
To give you an example 007 uses 79k of memory, to make this game we had
to give up and cut several elements to make it work.
Regarding the price, I chose to keep the quality high to try to make
the product as similar as possible, perhaps identical, to the Parker one
made in the 80s, years ago I produced Quo Vadis, I was asking 50 dollars
for this game, obviously the quality of the box, instructions and
overlaye was not the same and I was not satisfied.
I certainly focus on the emotional and passion component and I
absolutely want my games to look like they have come out of the time
machine both in terms of packaging and gameplay.

 

 

[+DZ-Jay]

1 hour ago, vroby said:

The games I develop use closed interrupts. On the emulator, this results in very annoying black screens. On physical machines, however, the game runs perfectly and at most there is a barely noticeable slowdown. This allows for more machine time during the intense phases of the game. 

That would be acceptable, except for the fact that other games have proven that such compromises are not absolutely necessary if handled in different ways.

 

When some games do the same thing, with the same constraints, but better, and without the annoying flicker or stuttering, it sort of shows the technology is not as impressive as you may think.

 

But that's not even the most salient thing that perhaps gives this particular game a lackluster shine.  In the interest of constructive criticism, I offer this:  the physics of the car look off, its parabolic arc seems crude, the ray beam of the enemies move much too slow in the context of the other elements, and the choppy and blocky re-drawing of the slopes on the screen edge is distracting.
 

Of course, this says nothing about actual user input handling and collision accuracy, for I have no way of assessing those without playing the game.  User perception and interaction with the game are, in my opinion, some of the most important aspects of a game.

 

1 hour ago, vroby said:

 

Even Dino, who is not on Atari Age, adds this:

 

Let me introduce myself, I'm Dino Yachaya the producer of these games.
First of all, thank you Mike for the review, I accept both good and bad
comments.
I just wanted to share my homebrew philosophy with you.
The games we make are by choice aimed at reaching only 80k of memory
with boards without additional memory, what we want to try to make are
games that are as similar as possible to what they could have been in
the 80s.
Obviously our games can't be as beautiful and flashy as new homebrew
productions that also reach a very high capacity of memory, but this is
our philosophy, we wont to respect the limit of the original machine.
To give you an example 007 uses 79k of memory, to make this game we had
to give up and cut several elements to make it work.

 

It is a commendable goal, and I applaud you for it, but really, other games have proven  that much more can be done with so little.  So I do not see the technical limitations of the hardware as a valid excuse -- it is, instead an opportunity to try to improve upon the state of the art, and strive to make better games as experience is gained.

 

We should try to make every game do more with less, and in doing so, open up resources for even more improvements.  That sentiment was inspired by something John Carmack said in the past.

 

I welcome your efforts, and hope you continue working on games.  What I do not welcome is presenting these games as some state-of-the-art statement at a premium price, and excusing its lack of luster by blaming the hardware.  Does the warrior blame his arrows for his missing the mark?

 

1 hour ago, vroby said:

Regarding the price, I chose to keep the quality high to try to make
the product as similar as possible, perhaps identical, to the Parker one
made in the 80s, years ago I produced Quo Vadis, I was asking 50 dollars
for this game, obviously the quality of the box, instructions and
overlaye was not the same and I was not satisfied.
I certainly focus on the emotional and passion component and I
absolutely want my games to look like they have come out of the time
machine both in terms of packaging and gameplay.

 

I appreciate that you are trying to reproduce the materials from the past in such a high quality production, but honestly, as I mentioned above (and others have suggested), perhaps these games are not the best ones for such boxes.  It unduly elevates the game, while simultaneously diminishes the production as a whole -- that is, unless the aim is just to "sell the box" as a high quality collectible in limited quantities and hope to tap into the obsessive collectors market.

 

That last part is not an accusation, but please be aware how some may ascribe your motives to a cynical ploy to exploit the market.

If you need better games to distribute in your beautiful boxes, there are plenty of talented programmers here making them all the time.  If your own programmer needs help in improving his techniques, he can tap into the extensive experience of many of the same in this forum.

 

Anyway, good luck to you.  I look forward to your next publication, and hope to see some great games coming from Italy.

 

    dZ.

Edited March 24, 2023 by DZ-Jay

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I think there's a decent market for an updated, fun and playable game taking full advantage of modern memory and programming, that is packaged in a high quality box with a glossy color manual and two overlays.  Just saying.

[carlsson]

James Bond is such a major franchise that you would have to distribute it underground with anonymous developers and publishers to be entirely safe. Compare to why we get very few Star Wars, Disney etc homebrews.

[+DZ-Jay]

33 minutes ago, carlsson said:

James Bond is such a major franchise that you would have to distribute it underground with anonymous developers and publishers to be entirely safe. Compare to why we get very few Star Wars, Disney etc homebrews.

 

Personally, I do not think that's a factor here in the Intellivision community -- or at least not such a significant one.  The Intellivision home-brew community is such a small niche, that it is almost by definition an underground endeavor with anonymous developers and publishers.

 

I think we do not get many Star Wars or Disney ports because, well, because there are so very few developers available to make them -- and most seem to be interested in other properties or styles.

 

9 hours ago, JasonlikesINTV said:

I think there's a decent market for an updated, fun and playable game taking full advantage of modern memory and programming, that is packaged in a high quality box with a glossy color manual and two overlays.  Just saying.

 

I agree, but I do not think we need something that takes "full advantage of modern memory and programming" necessarily; only that it is driven by good game design and a solid implementation.  Like I suggested in my previous post, bad physics, sluggish enemies, glitchy graphics, etc.; all chip away at the lustre of a game's quality, making it look amateurish and uninteresting.

 

In my opinion, it's the little things that count:  little things like graphics transitions, sprite animation and motion, scale, etc., that at least provide some impression of verisimilitude.  The engine can be a technical marvel, but if the game is not fun to play, well ... then it is not a good game -- and if the game does not look fun to play from its very first impressions, them players may not even give it a try to find out.

 

It is not that I am a snob and expect games to fit some ideal level of perfection.  I am a firm believer that not every game has to be a masterpiece, and that there should be an outlet for programmers at all levels of talent or skills.  What I object to (and perhaps I am not the only one) is when a premium is charged for what are essentially second- or third-tier games, just because they are enclosed in a beautiful and fancy box.

 

If I pay the price of a high-performing, ultra-high-quality automobile, I would not expect it to be made of cheap plastic and vinyl with uncomfortable seats and creaky suspension, even if it were delivered to my driveway with a gold-thread bow on top by a crew of impeccably uniformed, white-gloved servicemen.  The expectation for the product is set by its price and packaging.

    -dZ.

[carlsson]

6 hours ago, DZ-Jay said:

The Intellivision home-brew community is such a small niche, that it is almost by definition an underground endeavor with anonymous developers and publishers.

So why did the Smurfs game have to be reskinned a number of years ago, and what will happen if the Super Mario Bros game goes into production? I'm sure there are many more agents listening what is going on even in smaller communities than you might imagine. Even now, many of the Intellivision ports are cleverly renamed to avoid copyrights, or released pseudo-anonymously so there would be dead ends for anyone trying to locate the origin. In that respect, Dino and the others are kind of brave putting out games like James Bond, Spider-Man etc, but perhaps they're already anonymous enough for anyone to take action.

[+DZ-Jay]

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

So why did the Smurfs game have to be reskinned a number of years ago,

 

I have no idea.  As I recall, it was actually released in a private thread supposedly for "fears" of litigation.  The fact that it was some exclusive private club collectible couldn't hurt either, right?

 

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

and what will happen if the Super Mario Bros game goes into production?

 

The same thing that happened to Donkey Kong Arcade and Donkey Kong II Arcade, or all those recently released games with boxes falsely claiming to be from "Coleco" or "Parker Bros." ... probably nothing.

 

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

I'm sure there are many more agents listening what is going on even in smaller communities than you might imagine.

 

I doubt it.  I am not stupid, I know that there are cease & desist letters going around in some circles; but you'd be hard pressed to find anybody in the mainstream who remembers what an Intellivision is (if they ever heard of it before), let alone some large media conglomerate.

 

I am not suggesting that anybody should tempt fate -- far from it, I actually think it is bad form to publish such blatant rip-offs -- but I think that the Intellivision community would like to think it is quite more important than it actually is to the rest of the world.

 

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Even now, many of the Intellivision ports are cleverly renamed to avoid copyrights, or released pseudo-anonymously so there would be dead ends for anyone trying to locate the origin.

 

"To avoid copyrights"?  Ha!

 

Do you think that changing the name of a blatant rip-off of a known property, cleverly or not, is going to stop a large media corporation from sending a cease and desist letter?  (Note that I'm not talking about legal action, but the mere threat of it, since large organizations know that little independent developers have virtually no means to defend themselves, even if they were on the right side of the law.)

 

The pseudo-names on the releases are also no protection -- not when large corporations can exercise the power of the government in compelling ISPs and web site owners to provide user rolls and log data.

 

No.  The reason we have seen it quiet around here is not because of the cleverness of publishers in hiding their identities and renaming their games; it's purely and simply because we have been lucky enough to fly under the radar.  And why is that?  Because -- one more time, with feeling -- the Intellivision community is a niche player among a niche base.

 

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

In that respect, Dino and the others are kind of brave putting out games like James Bond, Spider-Man etc, but perhaps they're already anonymous enough for anyone to take action.

 

Right.  Or maybe, just maybe, nobody knows we're here.  Scary, I know, that our personal hobby and obsession is of little significance and consequence to most of the world.

 

Now, with all that said ... I think we all would be better off with more original titles.  That way we can keep ourselves hidden from view and avoid the hassle altogether. :)

 

   -dZ.

[Intymike]

1 hour ago, DZ-Jay said:

 

 

 

Right.  Or maybe, just maybe, nobody knows we're here.  Scary, I know, that our personal hobby and obsession is of little significance and consequence to most of the world.

 

Now, with all that said ... I think we all would be better off with more original titles.  That way we can keep ourselves hidden from view and avoid the hassle altogether.

 

   -dZ.

Or they lost track what’s new and what’s old from back then.

I had Nintendo guys at my booth at Gamescom, playing DK Arcade. Maybe they thought it was the official release from the 80s.  

[carlsson]

37 minutes ago, Intymike said:

Maybe they thought it was the official release from the 80s.

This. Since Donkey Kong actually was released on the Intellivision once, improved versions don't stand out as much as if a game not known to exist suddenly does. I know the C64 scene is much larger than Intellivision ever has been or ever will be, but the SMB port quickly went underground after getting too much public attention. There was a hobbyist (freeware!) Smurfs game on the Amiga which also got a C&D letter. You can never be too sure, in particular if the game turns out to be good so it reaches a wider audience through various blogs, gaming sites and videos.

 

But everyone are entitled their own believes what can or can't happen. On the point that we'd be better off with more original content, I fully agree and as I've kept mentioned several times, exclusive games is what creates unique selling points for wanting to get a certain system in the first place. Ideally owners of other systems should become jealous at the new Intellivision games and wish somebody ported those to their system, instead of the opposite.

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:31 AM, SiLic0ne t0aD said:

Agreed. Hate to be that guy, but all his ports are pretty so-so imho, and for as much as they cost, I kind of refuse to waste my money on mediocre ports, at least not on a physical copy anyway.

All ports are so-so. Whatever the game was in its other System, is what it will be. No enhancements. (Not knocking them... they are what they are)

 

If it is upgraded or changed in any way, its a Hacked game. 

 

A true Homebrew game is one thought up, programmed & developed from scratch.

[carlsson]

One interesting observation when it comes to licensed James Bond games, is that those tended to become better for each movie in the 1980's, even when the system (e.g. C64) remained the same. Of course programming skills improved over the years and games became bigger, but it striking to see the user scores:

 

James Bond 007 (1984): 4.97 of 10 (32 votes)

A View to a Kill (1985): 3.98 (52 votes)

Living Daylights (1987): 5.94 (34 votes)

Live and Let Die (1988): 6.88 (40 votes)

License to Kill (1989): 7.22 (58 votes)

The Spy Who Loved Me (1990): 6.45 (33 votes)

 

Neither belongs in the smash hit category, but given that movie conversions usually are hit and miss, any game above 6/10 is fairly good.

[+DZ-Jay]

2 hours ago, Intymike said:

Or they lost track what’s new and what’s old from back then.

I had Nintendo guys at my booth at Gamescom, playing DK Arcade. Maybe they thought it was the official release from the 80s.  

 

I don't recall Nintendo ever licensing D2K on the Intellivision.  Either way, nobody cared enough to send even a C&D letter.

 

     -dZ.

[mr_me]

Peyo, or their lawyer, might be particularly aggressive protecting the Smurfs.  On the other hand the guy that did the Jumpman Returns D2K arcade ROM hack wrote Nintendo, told them what he was doing, and was completely ignored.

 

I think most know that it's highly unlikely that anyone would get sued because the numbers are so small. But you can't blame anyone from abiding by a cease and desist or just trying to reduce any risk by keeping things as low key as possible. And changing the title helps keep it low key.

 

Avoiding use of trademarked titles also helps avoid greater exposure to damages as a claim on harming the brand can be much greater than copyright infringement on a relatively small number of copies.

 

14 hours ago, DZ-Jay said:

...

I think we do not get many Star Wars or Disney ports because, well, because there are so very few developers available to make them -- and most seem to be interested in other properties or styles.

...

Programmers probably want to convert games they like.  Star Wars the Atari arcade game is popular but would be tough to do on Intellivision.  Parker Brothers had a couple of other Star Wars games on other systems.  They could be done on Intellivision but are they worth doing.

 

3 hours ago, Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog said:

All ports are so-so. Whatever the game was in its other System, is what it will be. No enhancements. (Not knocking them... they are what they are)

 

If it is upgraded or changed in any way, its a Hacked game. 

 

A true Homebrew game is one thought up, programmed & developed from scratch.

The term hack usually refers to a modification of the original code.  A conversion of a game to a different system using only new and different code is still a homebrew.  There are some talented programmers who aren't game designers.  Accurately recreating a game on a different platform, especially a weaker one, takes skill and people like to see their favourite arcade games on the Intellivision.  Compromises in the conversion can be disappointing but enhancements done well can be a bonus.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by mr_me

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

23 minutes ago, mr_me said:

The term hack usually refers to a modification of the original code.  A conversion of a game to a different system using only new and different code is still a homebrew.  There are some talented programmers who aren't game designers.  Accurately recreating a game on a different platform, especially a weaker one, takes skill and people like to see their favourite arcade games on the Intellivision. 

I agree.. mostly.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. Believe me, i know that anyone that can create these great games or manipulate previously made games, has programming skill. I applaud all of them and the vast amounts of time spent doing it.. for no money the majority of the time.

 But, i think you are just looking at this through a programmers eyes & mindset. Look at the making of new games as a whole. 

You said... "A conversion of a game to a different system using only new and different code is still a homebrew." I disagree with this as the game itself was conceived and produced by another programmer already on another platform. Regardless of recoding the entire game, it is still someone elses game.

 Again, im not bashing hacked games, ports, or homebrews. I have all 3 types in my collection and im happy with them all. Most people just call them all Homebrews collectively. I do not agree. I believe they are different all together.. not only due to programming, but also conceiving the game and designing the gameplay storyline.

 All types (regardless of whether you call them homebrew games or not) are definately their own works of art. No denying that.

[mr_me]

I wouldn't call a hack/mod a homebrew because the code is mostly not theirs.  Although analysing that code and introducing changes can also take effort and skill.

[vroby]

Making a game for another platform while keeping the name is porting.
Making a game similar to another game by calling it another name is making a clone.
In practice, the difference is minimal

[+Psycho Stormtrooper- Rog]

5 hours ago, mr_me said:

I wouldn't call a hack/mod a homebrew because the code is mostly not theirs.  Although analysing that code and introducing changes can also take effort and skill.

I completely agree.

All of it takes skill.

[+Lathe26]

A hack is a modification of original source code.  Full stop.

[+DZ-Jay]

51 minutes ago, Lathe26 said:

A hack is a modification of original source code.  Full stop.

The Jargon File and the New Hacker's Dictionary would like to have a word with you.

 

    dZ.

[+cmadruga]

On 3/24/2023 at 5:14 AM, vroby said:

The games I develop use closed interrupts. On the emulator, this results in very annoying black screens. On physical machines, however, the game runs perfectly and at most there is a barely noticeable slowdown. This allows for more machine time during the intense phases of the game. 

Would you mind elaborating on your approach to using interrupts? This issue with the black screens seems very unique.

Pasting here your last message to me from our brief YouTube exchanges.

I thought other folks would want to follow this discussion. We can take this to the programming subforum if needed.

 

roberto viola
1 day ago
 @C Madruga  on the emulator they are seen while on the physical machine attached to the TV they are not seen. They are caused by the interrupt being closed when the machine time exceeds the vertical blank. the game does a lot of calculations as the movements are given by the code not by the recorded coordinates because the space is not enough. I hope I was clear

 

[+DZ-Jay]

3 minutes ago, cmadruga said:

Would you mind elaborating on your approach to using interrupts? This issue with the black screens seems very unique.

Pasting here your last message to me from our brief YouTube exchanges.

I thought other folks would want to follow this discussion. We can take this to the programming subforum if needed.

 

roberto viola
1 day ago
 @C Madruga  on the emulator they are seen while on the physical machine attached to the TV they are not seen. They are caused by the interrupt being closed when the machine time exceeds the vertical blank. the game does a lot of calculations as the movements are given by the code not by the recorded coordinates because the space is not enough. I hope I was clear

 

 

Sounds like dropped GRAM/STIC writes.  That would explain graphical glitches.  Although the VBLANK period is indeed limited, and the CPU can only access the graphics sub-system during this time, this is the nature of the Intellivision and can be coped with using common clever techniques.

 

    -dZ.

[vroby]

There is little to say. I close the interrupt I run the code and before the wait I reopen it. Annoying black screens come on the emulator.
On the physical machine, however, there are none. Since I develop for physical machines it comes in handy and the result is good.

[+DZ-Jay]

1 minute ago, vroby said:

There is little to say. I close the interrupt I run the code and before the wait I reopen it. Annoying black screens come on the emulator.
On the physical machine, however, there are none. Since I develop for physical machines it comes in handy and the result is good.

 

The problem is that we do not really understand what you mean by "I close the interrupt ... I reopen it."  Are you saying that the ISR (the interrupt handler code) is re-entered a second time before the first one completes?

 

Which emulator are you using?  My understanding is that jzIntv tries to imitate the timing of the hardware as closely as possible, although it may not be perfect.  Also, if you are using PAL hardware, there are subtle differences as well -- but you can enable PAL emulation in jzIntv as well.

 

     -dZ.

[vroby]

asm DIS
asm EIS
I also use jzintv in ntsc mode.
we did a lot of tests (ntsc, pal and even secam) and there are some small differences. It's definitely a great emulator. Also keep in mind that I work full with linux