What modern goodies would run on a 400?

[bfollowell]

15 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

There are converters from S-Video to composite TV.

 

All I can figure is that TV companies must be saving a ton of money by omitting that extra S-Video connection.   😕

 

 

Yeah, it's possible, but it's also possible to find converters to go from HDMI to composite. That being said, why would you want to? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose, taking a high quality output and converting it down to a lower quality output?

 

[reifsnyderb]

3 minutes ago, bfollowell said:

 

Yeah, it's possible, but it's also possible to find converters to go from HDMI to composite. That being said, why would you want to? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose, taking a high quality output and converting it down to a lower quality output?

 

I meant a converter to convert s-video, from the Atari, to composite or HDMI, for the TV.

 

 

[bfollowell]

53 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

I meant a converter to convert s-video, from the Atari, to composite or HDMI, for the TV.

 

 

Yes, I could see wanting to go from S-Video to HDMI. Just not from S-Video to composite.

 

[reifsnyderb]

You can also do s-video to composite.  So, having an s-video output gives you options.

[kiwilove]

The only large game I am aware of, that does run on a stock Atari 400 16K, is AtariBlast! on a 8mbit Atarimax flashcart.  That I tested and ran alright.

Back in the day, I do remember transferring 16K games from disk to tape for a newly found friend who had a 16K Atari 400, who quickly moved onto an Atari 800 48K machine because he soon ran out of the 16K games that he could run on the Atari 400.  Of course the 16K ripped Cartridge Atari games could never run on 16K machines.  I don't know the technical reason for this - was it the load/run addresses were changed to run on a disk based system?  Could they have been changed back then, to run off tape for 16K users?

 

Harvey

[Wrathchild]

Would depend on how much RAM the cart needed to use, e.g. a screen buffer could be 8K itself.

So an 8K ROM might relocate to the upper half of 16K if it needed <8K of RAM, but would need relevant address references updated.

 

[zylon]

1 hour ago, kiwilove said:

The only large game I am aware of, that does run on a stock Atari 400 16K, is AtariBlast! on a 8mbit Atarimax flashcart.  That I tested and ran alright.

Back in the day, I do remember transferring 16K games from disk to tape for a newly found friend who had a 16K Atari 400, who quickly moved onto an Atari 800 48K machine because he soon ran out of the 16K games that he could run on the Atari 400.  Of course the 16K ripped Cartridge Atari games could never run on 16K machines.  I don't know the technical reason for this - was it the load/run addresses were changed to run on a disk based system?  Could they have been changed back then, to run off tape for 16K users?

 

Harvey

In a way, the cart itself, can act as an extension of available memory. XE Mario Bros was another good example of this. Most of the Vic20 catalog, was exactly that. The same game on cart, would run on unexpanded system, while the tape version might need an expansion cart inserted.

[Wrathchild]

Very true, the 16K 5200 system can play Ballblazer. I've almost made a cart version that could run on a 16K 400 or 600XL.

[zylon]

Next on my short list, is TK II setup for it, as my keyboard is stone dead.

[zylon]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:30 AM, reifsnyderb said:

You can also do s-video to composite.  So, having an s-video output gives you options.

True, then I can mod up to 8-track format sound, lol. Seriously, thanks, and I get it, just my doing it, is logic I can't get past. I never bought a quadrophonic either. I have a dead-end I can use, or upgrade to a newer dead end. I'll either use the VCR, or just get up and switch the plug from something else on the TV. I think even a 5200 mod board will work in there. Even using the xegs on the scaler thing, didn't wow me, on either setting. In fact, I had to get up and flick the little switch on the adaptor, each time I used it, or I'd have no sound. I'll look into it again, in maybe 10yrs, if a tv dies. As it is, I'll likely finish the work, and maybe play something by summer. I hardly game at all, really. Maybe 10-15 minutes monthly, most months.

[zylon]

 looks like Qix, got keyboard going too. Reseating pokey did the trick

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by zylon

[zylon]

My goodies arrived, but can't play with them just yet. Gotta replace the "math pack" ROM 1st. If I remove it, most my carts, memo pad, and keyboard work. Green screen if inserted. Memory is already done, but any further is on pause for now.  

Meanwhile, doing this, has led me to finally clear most of the accumulated projects on my countertop- "dead" 2600, "dead" 65XE, and rebuild some CX52's with the new Rev 10 flexis. The 2600 needed RF modulator, cable, and various reflowing. The 65 was a known dead buy on the cheap, an MT Ram fatality, but I rescued some great items from it, and doing a resto with BE items.

[marauder666]

I had to change C189 from 0.1uf to 0.68uf to give the SDrive more time to boot, otherwise it's not ready before 400 has booted and it's sat at memo pad.

400s and 800s boot very quickly, no messing around looking for option button press.

It's the red cap near the 4050 in my pics below.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by marauder666

[zylon]

13 hours ago, marauder666 said:

I had to change C189 from 0.1uf to 0.68uf to give the SDrive more time to boot, otherwise it's not ready before 400 has booted and it's sat at memo pad.

400s and 800s boot very quickly, no messing around looking for option button press.

It's the red cap near the 4050 in my pics below.

 

 

I'll take that under advisement, and test a bit, before putting it back together. My needed IC should be here any day now.

[marauder666]

Value of the capacitor isnt crucial, I had loads of 0.68uf so used that, it just needs to be big enough to hold the CPU in reset until the SDrive has booted.  

 

[oky2000]

Hmmm that's not good, I wanted to use an Atari 800 as my main machine with the SIO2SD thingy. The 400 is the one Atari I really regret not getting at least one of back when they were affordable, they look so cool. Guess I will have to use my new old stock 800XL with SD and hopefully the 810 and 1050 disk drives and stacks of multi-game crack disks load OK to use with the 800. The 800 is the machine I used in the early-mid eighties so it's the most nostalgic for me.

[zylon]

2 hours ago, oky2000 said:

Hmmm that's not good, I wanted to use an Atari 800 as my main machine with the SIO2SD thingy. The 400 is the one Atari I really regret not getting at least one of back when they were affordable, they look so cool. Guess I will have to use my new old stock 800XL with SD and hopefully the 810 and 1050 disk drives and stacks of multi-game crack disks load OK to use with the 800. The 800 is the machine I used in the early-mid eighties so it's the most nostalgic for me.

A way around that, would be to externally power the sio2sd. Mine has that option. 

400' are probably the least "jacked" in pricing now. At least the stuff I saw, when hunting parts. 

I'm glad I decided to do something with it finally. I've learned a lot about this unique little guy.

Edited February 17, 2023 by zylon

[marauder666]

4 hours ago, oky2000 said:

Hmmm that's not good, I wanted to use an Atari 800 as my main machine with the SIO2SD thingy. The 400 is the one Atari I really regret not getting at least one of back when they were affordable, they look so cool. Guess I will have to use my new old stock 800XL with SD and hopefully the 810 and 1050 disk drives and stacks of multi-game crack disks load OK to use with the 800. The 800 is the machine I used in the early-mid eighties so it's the most nostalgic for me.

SIO2SD does work with stock 400 and 800, just needs a different menu program on the SD card.  It boots faster than a SDrive.

 

The SDrive does run even with the stock capacitor if you hit reset when in memo pad.

 

These boot times I'm talking about are how long the external device takes to become ready after getting power, it less than 0.5 seconds in all cases, but the 400 and 800 are ready in less than 0.1 seconds.

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by marauder666

[zylon]

That's ok, I'm going to have to find a "for idiots" how-to on using the sio2sd anyways. Mine's locked up already, and can't get into the config screen now. I'll put it on the xl until I figure out enough. I have a box of stuff that I never figured out, lol (sio2pc, xum1514, etc)

only seems to respond to swiping the screen, but never gets to what I want on there. It did work by the touch pen thingy stick, until I bumped something in config screen. taking glasses off/on to do stuff leads to lots of my oops's lol.

I installed the Rom chip today, and that's going good. I have most of keyboard, but not lower left half of bottom row, no shift keys, but rest works. From "B" and left, is deceased.

Edited February 18, 2023 by zylon

[zylon]

apparently, I just need to re-enable D0 in config, if it ever lets me. 🙃 I couldn't get it to run on the XL either.

[zylon]

16 hours ago, marauder666 said:

SIO2SD does work with stock 400 and 800, just needs a different menu program on the SD card.  It boots faster than a SDrive.

 

The SDrive does run even with the stock capacitor if you hit reset when in memo pad.

 

These boot times I'm talking about are how long the external device takes to become ready after getting power, it less than 0.5 seconds in all cases, but the 400 and 800 are ready in less than 0.1 seconds.

 

Good to know. I wouldn't be able to change that cap anyways, nothing big enough for me to work on in that area. The one I have, is apparently the sdrive max, but haven't gotten it to run on anything yet. Hitting reset hasn't shown any sign of effect on it yet, but I'm attributing that to my lack of modern tech knowledge. I'm trying to figure out TKII as well, which isn't giving me the response it should, so I'm using two keyboards at once.

[oky2000]

23 hours ago, zylon said:

A way around that, would be to externally power the sio2sd. Mine has that option. 

400' are probably the least "jacked" in pricing now. At least the stuff I saw, when hunting parts. 

I'm glad I decided to do something with it finally. I've learned a lot about this unique little guy.

 

In the UK the 400 has quite the premium and because it has such a unique look I quite fancied it but I stopped collecting in 2019 as I have almost everything you can think of, even useless junk like a ZX80 lol

[oky2000]

22 hours ago, marauder666 said:

SIO2SD does work with stock 400 and 800, just needs a different menu program on the SD card.  It boots faster than a SDrive.

 

The SDrive does run even with the stock capacitor if you hit reset when in memo pad.

 

These boot times I'm talking about are how long the external device takes to become ready after getting power, it less than 0.5 seconds in all cases, but the 400 and 800 are ready in less than 0.1 seconds.

 

Ahh, I did wonder if doing a reset would help as on the Amiga 600/1200 if the IDE hard disk drive is an old slow model you sometimes have to wait a few seconds after power on and do a keyboard reset.

[zylon]

1 hour ago, oky2000 said:

 

In the UK the 400 has quite the premium and because it has such a unique look I quite fancied it but I stopped collecting in 2019 as I have almost everything you can think of, even useless junk like a ZX80 lol

I think the 400 is neat looking, and stands out among the "breadbin" style machines of the era. I've had this a long time, just never did anything with it. It powered on, memo came up, tried couple carts, then it went in the closet. Far from the most capable, it can do a lot, just seems more challenging to do so.   Having my 600xl down for awhile, kinda spurred me to go at the 400 finally. My goal is to have something capable of more than flash multi-carts. In the process, I'm also learning about the 800, which I've zero experience with. A major bonus for me, is the crappy keyboard. My parrot loves to save me from "evil buttons", and tries to remove them. I added the TKII so I can plug in a keyboard when needed, and still use the basic functions on the membrane one. F-keys, numbers, Space, and most letters work. However, not enough works to even do ?FRE(0) test. While I know my limitations, I enjoy the tinkering and discovery, moreso than just gaming. Pricing at a glance, shows I can get 2-3 "untested" 400's, for what the same in an XL or XE would want.  Lifetime C= user here, but it never needs work, lol. I also find many of the games, when I do play, are more enjoyable on the A8, despite the C having more of them.

[zylon]

Yay! 😎 That TKII cut it super close on space.

Edited February 18, 2023 by zylon