What is Grafx_9...?!?

[+CharlieChaplin]

Think most A8 users have already seen the attached ATR image with erotic (nude) pictures in graphics mode 9. Most of these pictures use the standard Micropainter 62 sector format.

 

Most, except three (look, lookdown, panty) that are 63 sectors long. They are not displayed with the (Atari Basic) menu program on the disk. So I began searching for a program that could display them and did not find one. I read somewhere that uncompressed Koala pictures have a length of 63 sectors, but none of the Koala viewers or converters could display these pictures.

 

Looking at the header of these pictures I could see some text there like this: "Digitized Grafx_9 Type 2.0   (c)1987   South_Bay_Atari". Hmmm, is Grafx_9 an A8 program that I do not know or is it a program from ST, PC or Amiga ? And last not least, what can be done to make these 3 pictures display as standard Micropainter or Koala/Micro-Illustrator ?

 

nude.zip

[+MrFish]

I also see this at the bottom of each of those files (in a hex editor): "Grafx_9 by Dennis Baker". I couldn't find anything in my archives, or online with the program name. Did find the user group, though.

 

The data can be loaded into Recoil as a *.gr9 file. It's garbled; but you can see a distinguishable period. It probably wouldn't be too hard to figure out the file format.

 

Looks like I can see large text (in sections) at the top of two of them (panty, lookdown) that looks like "SBA" for South Bay Atari. Would probably help in aligning the file data. I guess the interesting thing to note about it is that the sections making up the text appear in inverse order within the file (bottom, middle, top) -- which might suggest some interleaving.

 

 

 

 

[+MrFish]

Here's the text I'm talking about -- lined up.

 

 

Just the standard Atari font, but at graphics 9 pixel width.

 

[+Stephen]

2 hours ago, MrFish said:

I also see this at the bottom of each of those files (in a hex editor): "Grafx_9 by Dennis Baker". I couldn't find anything in my archives, or online with the program name. Did find the user group, though.

 

The data can be loaded into Recoil as a *.gr9 file. It's garbled; but you can see a distinguishable period. It probably wouldn't be too hard to figure out the file format.

 

Looks like I can see large text (in sections) at the top of two of them (panty, lookdown) that looks like "SBA" for South Bay Atari. Would probably help in aligning the file data. I guess the interesting thing to note about it is that the sections making up the text appear in inverse order within the file (bottom, middle, top).

 

 

 

 

I modified the included program and displayed them, saw the same thing.  Is it possible the BBS header info just needs stripped off I wonder?  That would also explain the size difference.

 

I also noticed something odd in the BASIC loader.  It does a "GRAPHICS 25" - but as we know the GTIA modes don't have a text-window version.  There is no difference in the Display List that is setup when adding a +16 to the GTIA modes.  Wonder why they did this?

[miker]

Two pictures are also known from this one: https://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=700

[Gunstar]

I'm in shock here, due to the fact that the expect all of you who have replied, also including the topic starter Charlie Chaplin, to know exactly what graphics 9 is and how to use/display them and why they use the same number of sectors as standard Micro Illustrator (Koala, Atari Artist). So I can only think that I must be missing something, as my explanation to these image files is quite simple, and is covered in any introductions to Atari graphics in anything published (physical or online):

 

Intentionall trying to keep it all in newbie-lamens terms...Graphics 9 is one of the three GTIA modes that have access to the full 256 color palette that Antic graphic modes do not, which are restricted to 128 color pallete. GTIA resolutions (9, 10, 11) are 80x192 pixels and use the same amount of sectors as Micro Illustrator files because the extra color data replaces space memory normally used for the higher resolution pixels. But normal Micro Illustrator art and display programs won't load them correctly as the Antic can't interperate the resolution and extra colors in it's graphic modes. What is required is a graphic art or display program like Rambrandt that is compatible with most GTIA and Antic graphic modes. If graphics 9 is selected as the mode from the menu of Rambrandt, these image files will be able to be loaded and displayed.

 

Or are you who responded quite aware of all of this, as I thought you should be, and I'm missing something else? I admit I don't recall at all about Rambrandt or other graphic art programs that use the three GTIA modes, if they use 62 or 63 sectors or why there would be an extra sector required for them. So maybe that sector makes these graphic 9 images different and incompatible with other GTIA graphic art or display programs, and were done that way for some unique reason? Part of the digitisation process possibly? I would assume the hardware/software combo called "Computer Eyes" by Alpha systems back in the day was used for the digitization process as it's the only way to digitize on the Atari I am aware of? if that is the case, than the Computer eyes software should probably have a loader/display program for these images included in the files with it.

 

However, I have viewed countless digitized GTIA images with Rambrandt and loaders that supporting GTIA modes, so maybe they are all 63 sector and I've forgotten. I'm not in a position atm to check image files I have for sector lengths.

 

Rambrandt: http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-rambrandt_12480.html

 

Rambrandt files: http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-rambrandt-collection-_31097.html

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Gunstar

[+Stephen]

3 hours ago, Gunstar said:

So I can only think that I must be missing something,

Yes - you're missing the fact that 3 of the images in that collection have a header which is not part of the MicroIllustrator / Koala standard, and that the images are scrambled when trying to view them.  It's odd that they are included on an ATR which has several other images which do display properly using the included BASIC program.  That program specifically check to make sure the size is 62 sectors.  If you modify the program to look for 63 sector images, they display garbage.

[ivop]

Actually, they are all of non-standard size. 125-byte sectors says nothing.

 

7748 BACK.PIC
7739 BED.PIC
7739 BIG.PIC
7706 DOOR.PIC
7706 LAY.PIC
7807 LOOKDOWN.PIC
7807 LOOK.PIC
7807 PANTY.PIC
7736 PLAY.PIC

Normally, 40 bytes * 192 lines equals 7680 bytes.

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

4 hours ago, Gunstar said:

I'm in shock here, due to the fact that the expect all of you who have replied, also including the topic starter Charlie Chaplin, to know exactly what graphics 9 is and how to use/display them and why they use the same number of sectors as standard Micro Illustrator (Koala, Atari Artist). So I can only think that I must be missing something, ...

 

Well, I do have dozens if not hundreds of disk images with 62-sector Micropainter style images in Gr. 8, 9, 9+11 and 15. (I also have one disk with Gr. 7 pictures with 62 sectors length and another disk with Gr. 7 pictures with 31 sectors length somewhere.) Of course I also have several viewers for these graphic modes, but as already mentioned those 3 files are interleaved or scrambled somehow and I have not found a single program to view them yet.

 

My first guess was to simply cut off the header, but most Micropainter viewers don't test for the filelength in Bytes, they simply load/display 62 sectors and thus, if only the header was the problem, they would still display those pictures - but they don't, you only get a screen full of garbage. So the kind of interleave/scrambling is the problem here which should be further investigated. I am quite sure that Rambrandt will also not load these 3 pictures (due to the interleave/scrambling), but I have not tested it.

 

---

 

Micropainter normally has 7684 Bytes in Gr. 15, thats 7680 Bytes for the picture data and four Bytes (at the end!) for the colours. Gr. 8 and 9 in Micropainter style would be 7680 bytes, since there are no colours (just b/w or greys) or 7681 Bytes, adding 1 extra Byte for the base colour (e.g. red, so in Gr. 8 you get a dark and light red, in Gr. 9 you get 16 tones of red). For Gr. 9+11 (256 colour pics) non-interlace and flicker-free this can also be 7680 Bytes, half of them for Gr. 9 and the other half for Gr. 11 (resolution is 80x96 pixels then). Attached some examples here, the viewer on these disks will load any 62-sector picture file and chooses the right gfx mode based on the extender (GR8, GR9, G15, 256).

 

Koala/Micro-Illustrator is nomally compressed (either vertically or horizontally), so the pics are normally shorter than 62 sectors - but it is also possible and allowed to have them uncompressed (very rarely ever used). Since Koala/Micro-Illustrator pics do have a header, they would be 63 sectors in uncompressed length then. There were several gfx converters in Antic and Analog magazines and at least one of them could also load uncompressed Koala/Micro-Illustrator, but it did not load those 3 picture files. And as you can see above, the header of those 3 picture files is NOT a Koala/Micro-Illustrator header...

 

Pic62Sec.zip

[Gunstar]

Thanks for clearing up my confusion guys...I knew you guys would know those basics and I must have been me missing something...I over-focused on the mention of "Grafx_9" bit, my mind not comprehending that this might be a reference to something other than GTIA mode 9, and also misunderstood reference to 63 sector images and reference to umcompressed Micro-Illustrator files as being one and the same, even though I found it quite odd that compression would only reduce the file by 1 sector, but just accepted (assumed) that 63 sectors=uncompressed .mic file regardless of it not making logical sense to me.

 

Rambrandt allows for saving and loading of uncompressed Micro-Illustrator format as I recall. I never used the option myself or looked at file sector lengths. But I remembr the option. It's been a few years since I used the program. But I'm pretty sure no Rambrandt specific graphic files are compressed in anyway either, due to the expected use of DLI's within the images.

 

You can choose to save an image in compressed or uncompressed micro illustrator format, but then none of the extra color from DLI's or any animation bits are saved, just the basic underlying 4-5 colors. The ability was merely for compatibility with Micro-Illustrator so those file could be loaded into Rambrandt and extra features added, or so any images started with Rambrandt could have a stripped-down Micro-illustrator version saved so people without Rambrandt or the image loader could view the basic graphics on Micro-illustrator compatible applications and loaders. I've never come across any (recognized from DLI color version) graphic art collection of Rambrandt 128/256 pallette DLI art saved in standard Micro-illustrator format though. I have come across graphic images that were originally Micro-Illustrator images that were edited by a secondary party using Rambrandt to add DLI's producing more colorful representations of the original art.

 

Rambrandt's tools,  limited animation tools, and extended modules like the Solid Object Module along with DLI's, multiple controller options and  multiple graphic modes to choose where the only reasons that made Rambrandt better than most other Micro-illustrator compatible Atari art programs. I never cared for Rambrandt's menu interface and usually used Atari Artist with the touch tablet or Diamond Paint through Diamond GOS with an ST mouse with their nice icon-driven point-and-click menus, and when the basic 4-5 color image was done, then save it and load it into Rambrandt (abbreviated text based menu system on two lines at the bottom and multiple page flipping of the two lines to cover all tools and options) to add DLI's and recolor or add pre-made solid objects and do animations.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Gunstar