7800 connected to a new 4k tv?

[bratboy]

I feel like this is going to sound like a stupid question, but I'd really like to connect my 7800 to my brand new LG 4K TV without any lag whatsoever. What would happen if I hooked it up through the coax and stuck it on Channel 3? Will the sound and video be that crappy? Thanks.

[SlagOMatic]

"Without any lag whatsoever" is your breaking point. It is literally impossible to have NO lag on a modern television for the simple fact that there's a computer running behind the screen, and computers take time to draw an image.

 

You won't be able to hook it up through coax. The 7800 outputs an analog signal; the coax input on your TV will only recognize a digital signal. You could use an A-to-D adapter but the cost isn't worth it for the quality you'll get, and it'll introduce even MORE lag as the adapter has to process the analog signal to digital.

 

My 7800 has been modified with the Ultimate Atari Video board for the 7800 to give me s-video output, plus I installed a 3.5mm audio output jack. Together these are fed into a RetroTINK 2X Pro upscaler, which in turn is connected to a 1080p LCD TV and there is EFFECTIVELY no lag, which is to say I know that there's lag present because I understand how the technology works, but any lag that's present is absolutely minimal and has zero effect on my gameplay. I've had many people come in and play and none of them have ever commented about any kind of lag.

[bratboy]

I have an original Xbox as well that's been modded with a hell of a lot of games. Would something like ossc be better for the Atari and the Xbox, and if I picked up an n64? I'm just having a hard time figuring out what the best signal converters are without paying an arm and a leg.

[SlagOMatic]

I can't speak to the effectiveness of OSSC. My setup is a little complex on paper but works easily in practice. I have about a dozen consoles, mostly retro ones but a few that have HDMI capabilities. From the factory most of those consoles don't support anything other than RF or maybe composite. I modded all of those to output component or s-video. After a fair amount of searching I found and bought a Pelican PL-960 switch box which has eight component/s-video inputs. All of my consoles feed into that, then its output goes into the RetroTINK 2X Pro upscaler and comes out as 1080p HDMI. That, in turn, goes into an HDMI switchbox alongside the other HDMI-native systems I have (PS3, PS4, gaming PC, and emulator PC) and then into my TV.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:54 PM, SlagOMatic said:

You won't be able to hook it up through coax. The 7800 outputs an analog signal; the coax input on your TV will only recognize a digital signal.

Maybe.  It's not a hard-and-fast rule that modern TVs don't incorporate an analogue tuner, but it's pretty normal that the only way to find out is to connect the RF output to the TV and see if it can tune in the Atari.

 

Having said that, however, it is a feature that is definitely on the decline in newer devices.  Even when it is included, the picture quality tends to be poor compared to CRT and earlier LCD TVs.

On 4/1/2023 at 8:16 PM, bratboy said:

I'd really like to connect my 7800 to my brand new LG 4K TV without any lag whatsoever.

What I can say for certain is that I'm running a UAV-modified 7800 straight to the TV, and it's about as close to zero-lag as you can get if RF isn't an option.

 

If you do want to try RF, be sure to grab one of these.  It'll adapt the TV's screw-type antenna connector out to one that the 7800 can plug straight into.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

10 hours ago, bratboy said:

I have an original Xbox as well that's been modded with a hell of a lot of games. Would something like ossc be better for the Atari and the Xbox, and if I picked up an n64? I'm just having a hard time figuring out what the best signal converters are without paying an arm and a leg.

I have a lot of consoles both semi modern and retro in my game room all connected up. I do have an OSSC that handles most of it. But as the OSSC doesn't have composite or s-video connections by default, I'm using another piece of equipment to handle those connections. I've stated this in other threads but I will summarize it again:

 

- All retro consoles that can only provide up to s-video, composite, and component plug into an Extron 7SC AV selector/converter/scaler device. It is old tech that is about 20 years ago and wasn't consumer grade but they can be had for pretty cheaply now. It accepts composite, s-video, RGBHV (VGA), RGsB, RGBs, and YPbPr through the use of BNC jacks on the back of it. I purchased BNC to RCA adapters for like $1 each at the time to go with it and use it for all of the retro consoles. It takes whatever video input you have selected it on and outputs everything to a converted VGA signal.

- The VGA output then plugs directly into my OSSC and then back out to my AV receiver and then my TV. The receiver is only passthrough so there isn't any lag added there. The only real source of lag at this point would be whatever processing the TV might still be doing on the signal (shouldn't be much as I've all the image features disabled) plus whatever the OSSC might be providing which also isn't much.

 

Now my Extron allows me to choose the output resolution of the VGA signal, but I keep it at 640x480 because at that resolution, I can then use the OSSC to 2x upscale it to 960P through HDMI and my TV accepts that without issue. The output image actually looks a little better this way because if I set the output any higher then I have to use the pass-through mode on the OSSC and it works but results in a softer picture output and doesn't allow me to use most of the setting and adjustments to dial it in better in that mode.

 

The caveat to all of this is the amount of space needed compared to using something like a Tink2x Pro or RetroTink5x. But even if I had one of those I would still need a large AV selector since the Tink products only have one the one inputs on them for each signal type and in the audio is shared between the component, composite, and s-video inputs. The Extron is a large box and is the biggest thing in my console setup but it allows me a lot of versatility in connections with each having their own audio input for each video source etc.

 

I can't say much on the cost for things because it changes so much. When I got my OSSC it came with some RGB cables to allow it work with a few systems I had already in the console setup along with the remote, power supply and a 3 way auto switching SCART select too. And I paid under $200 for all of that then. The Extron ran me about $45 shipped from ebay and then I had to purchase some cables and fabricate some stuff to get it all working the way I wanted. So I could say I have about $300 total invested in my AV setup back then. But I see that OSSCs seem to be quite a bit more expensive these days then they were in the past.

 

[Flyindrew]

I have 2 4 K tvs and able to hook up all my old systems perfectly. Some you can just plug the TV cable directly into the out to video port, others, your going to need to get an RF adapter, screw it into the back of your TV and plug your retro system TV cable into the adapter. You will also need to keep your TV remote and switch input to "antennae" from HDMI. 

[+LS650]

I recently picked up an LG 34" flatscreen from a pawn shop. 

It's about 10 years old and has analog RF Coax, composite, component, and HDMI.  (no S-video sadly)

I've tried several old systems (2600, Intellivision, etc.) and they all work just fine with an Coaxial (F-Type) to Female RCA Adapter.

 

[bratboy]

3 hours ago, ls650 said:

I recently picked up an LG 34" flatscreen from a pawn shop. 

It's about 10 years old and has analog RF Coax, composite, component, and HDMI.  (no S-video sadly)

I've tried several old systems (2600, Intellivision, etc.) and they all work just fine with an Coaxial (F-Type) to Female RCA Adapter.

 

From the sound of things, it's not so easy with a 4k. Not to mention one of the small reasons I bought a new TV is because of the lack of lag.

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, bratboy said:

From the sound of things, it's not so easy with a 4k. Not to mention one of the small reasons I bought a new TV is because of the lack of lag.

Depending on what your TV does or does not support, using the composite output from a UAV may be your best bet.  Chances are good that if the TV supports component input, it also supports composite.  On the plus side, the picture will likely be better than with RF.

[bratboy]

It only has 2 hdmi inputs. 

[+remowilliams]

Using an external scaler/doubler is the best route to minimize lag.  TVs often have horrendous upscalers in them.

 

So something like a Tink2x, OSSC, Tink 5x Pro, etc. depending on your budget and need.  You will of course need to obtain a suitable signal for input, via something like a UAV.

[+x=usr(1536)]

On 4/4/2023 at 7:57 AM, bratboy said:

It only has 2 hdmi inputs. 

That leaves you with essentially three options:

1. Find out if analogue RF is supported by your TV
2. Invest in an RF to HDMI converter
3. Invest in a UAV and a RetroTink, OSSC, or similar device

Unfortunately, unless your TV supports analogue RF input, your options are limited, particularly if low lag is a requirement.  RF is likely to be lowest-lag, with the UAV / RetroTink / OSSC option coming in second.  The demodulator may be lower-latency, but my experience with those is that you very much get what you pay for.

[Video]

Wowsers. Unfortunately, the only way to see if your tv will talk to your console is to hook it up and try. Many modern TVs don't support analog at all, and especially for oddball resolutions (if you use 7800 to play 2600 especially) the tv could work a range of fine, to not at all, and various steps in between, no color, no sound, rolling images, etc. If you use something besides RF, there are composite and component to HDMI adapters, but I've never tried one. They cost in a range of $30 to as much as you want to pay, and even there, no guarantees. Like the above poster said, its very dependant on what you pay. Every added adapter will add lag, but imo I can usually deal with it as long as the total doesn't exceed about 30ms worth.

[bratboy]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:03 AM, x=usr(1536) said:

That leaves you with essentially three options:

1. Find out if analogue RF is supported by your TV
2. Invest in an RF to HDMI demodulator
3. Invest in a UAV and a RetroTink, OSSC, or similar device

Unfortunately, unless your TV supports analogue RF input, your options are limited, particularly if low lag is a requirement.  RF is likely to be lowest-lag, with the UAV / RetroTink / OSSC option coming in second.  The demodulator may be lower-latency, but my experience with those is that you very much get what you pay for.

Thanks I think I'll go for the retrotink 2 pro. Not sure what else to do. I'm also trying to figure out my dec alpha amount other things!

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 hours ago, bratboy said:

dec alpha

Those were nice machines.  The only good Windows NT boxes ever made 

[bratboy]

I'm trying to get a copy of w 2000 so I can play retro games on ot. I don't feel like finding a 486 at current prices!

[Keatah]

486 rigs are among the hardest to work on. They came at a time when significant performance improvements were just getting underway, along with many new technologies and techniques in PC design. New storage standards that often exceeded BIOS' capability were coming out too. A time of many changes!

[+x=usr(1536)]

6 hours ago, bratboy said:

I'm trying to get a copy of w 2000 so I can play retro games on ot. I don't feel like finding a 486 at current prices!

Look for a beta version.  IIRC, that was the one that dropped support for Alpha from the release version, but otherwise had it up until RTM.

[bratboy]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Look for a beta version.  IIRC, that was the one that dropped support for Alpha from the release version, but otherwise had it up until RTM.

I'm looking for that and I'm even emailing Ms for the unreleased 2000