SCSI refresher

[djglish]

I am going to be working on two ST projects this summer.

 

The first one is rebuilding my old Hard drive case.  The drive that was in it died.  When I originally bought this it was a 4 bay drive case (15Dx 15W x5T) with an ICD AdSCSI plus card and a whopping 105mb hard drive.  I believe I payed about $600 for it.  Over the years I put a 105mb Syquest drive, CD-Rom drive and a tape backup drive in it.  I'm trying to decide if I want to keep the case or move everything into a smaller size PC type case (taller instead of wider).  I do have a 240mb SCSI drive to replace the old one with.   

 

My second project is to try and resurrect a MegaST that I mounted in a PC case.  It tends to crash and I believe that the chips tend to work loose because the board is mounted vertically.  If I reseat the chips and keep the case on it's side it runs better.  I put another ICD AdSCSI plus card in it wired up to the internal ASCI port.  It has a SCSI hard drive, CD-Rom drive and had a tape backup drive.  I'll probably drop the tape backup drive since it's so slow and not that effective.  I do have either a SCSI Zip drive or a Syquest EZ135 that I could mount in it.  I'm also thinking about getting a ZuluSCSI card and replacing the drive with a SD card opening on an open drive bay.

 

Now for the SCSI refresher part.  I know that the last drive on the SCSI cable needs to be terminated.  Do the drives need to be in numerical order or can they be placed by how they best fit in the casings?  Does the boot drive need to be drive "0" or can it be something else?  What is the best partitioning software to use to prepare the drives?  I've heard really good things about HDDriver.  I've always used the ICD disks that came with the ADSCSI cards in the past.  If I do go with a SD card option what is the largest partition that will work?  

 

If I can get the MegaST working working properly would it make sense to install a GoTEK drive in the case?  Would the GoTEK be redundant with an internal HD?  I'd like to keep the floppy as drive a but could route the GoTEK from the floppy drive port on the back of the case.  Any other thoughts about what might be worth putting in the case also?

 

Amazing the trouble one can find to get into when you become retired.

[Tillek]

I'm a big fan of HDDriver.  I've been using it for years.  Works great and the developer is a much nicer man to work with.  It even has a mobile app that will tell you when your version is out of date based on it keeping track of the version you last downloaded if you're a paying customer.  It also includes the partitioning tools.

 

 

[+SoulBuster]

Do the drives need to be in numerical order or can they be placed by how they best fit in the casings?

No.  They do not need to be in order.

 

Does the boot drive need to be drive "0" or can it be something else?

I do not think so when using HDDriver

 

What is the best partitioning software to use to prepare the drives?  I've heard really good things about HDDriver.

Yes

 

I've always used the ICD disks that came with the ADSCSI cards in the past.  If I do go with a SD card option what is the largest partition that will work? 

536.8 Megabytes (512 MB) for a Mega ST with TOS 1.04 (Rainbow TOS)

 

Take a look at this for an alternate SD Device

SCSI2SD - SCSI2SD.COM

[+SoulBuster]

I set this up awhile ago.  Maybe it will give you some ideas.

 

ST Storage Tower - Atari ST/TT/Falcon Computers - AtariAge Forums

 

[Chri O.]

Unless TOS was updated on the Mega ST (TOS 1.02) for boot 256 MB max.  For 512 MB and above boot partition 1.04 and above TOS is needed.

EDIT: At least with the new HDDriver.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Chri O.

[TGB1718]

From personal experience HDDriver just crashes on both my STE and STM, both with the latest

versions of TOS for each machine, the developer couldn't help.

 

I'm using a "real" SCSI hard drive connected to an ICD SCSI interface, so don't really know why it doesn't work

 

ICD Pro works a treat 

[snarkdluG]

Another tip: BlueSCSI v2 for SD card solution.

[Tillek]

6 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

From personal experience HDDriver just crashes on both my STE and STM, both with the latest

versions of TOS for each machine, the developer couldn't help.

 

I'm using a "real" SCSI hard drive connected to an ICD SCSI interface, so don't really know why it doesn't work

 

ICD Pro works a treat 

To counter, I run a BBS (way more HD usage since it runs 24-7) and I've used HDDriver for 10 years now (since 2013) on both real hard drives and recently an UltraSatan... never one problem related to the driver.  This was both on a Mega STE and Mega ST (also for a short time I ran it on a Falcon and TT).  Back in the 90's when I ran it on the ICD drivers, I would have issues sometimes.

 

I also use HDDriver on all my other machines when I'm not running EmuTos and never had a problem related to the driver.  For my external drives, I generally used a Link or Link2 

 

[+DarkLord]

12 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

From personal experience HDDriver just crashes on both my STE and STM, both with the latest

versions of TOS for each machine, the developer couldn't help.

 

I'm using a "real" SCSI hard drive connected to an ICD SCSI interface, so don't really know why it doesn't work

 

ICD Pro works a treat 

 

Are you still using the demo version of HDDriver or is this the full package?

Thanks.

 

[djglish]

Thanks for the info.  I may stay with the ICD drivers.  I'm not sure if i'm going to keep the 4 bay case or end up selling it off. 

I will probably get a ASCI2SD for my ST instead. If I do sell it I would be bringing it to the VCF Midwest show in September.  

 

 

 

[TGB1718]

11 hours ago, DarkLord said:

Are you still using the demo version of HDDriver or is this the full package?

Thanks.

I tried the demo version as I was contemplating buying it, but it just won't work, I tried

everything from removing all AUTO's .ACC's so nothing but HDDriver.

 

Booting from a floppy as directed, but 90% of the time it crashes, on the rare occasion

it actually ran it never saw any drives and eventually "bombed"

 

So wasn't prepared to part with my money for what I saw as a sub-standard product.

 

I know loads of users here swear by it, but if it won't work for you, why would you use it.

[+DarkLord]

I understand what you are saying.

 

But because it's not the full version though, I certainly wouldn't reach

a final conclusion on it being a "sub-standard product".

 

Considering the number of people successfully using it, it's track record,

longevity, still being supported and updated, etc,...it's hardly that. 

 

[Tillek]

8 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

I tried the demo version as I was contemplating buying it, but it just won't work, I tried

everything from removing all AUTO's .ACC's so nothing but HDDriver.

 

Booting from a floppy as directed, but 90% of the time it crashes, on the rare occasion

it actually ran it never saw any drives and eventually "bombed"

 

So wasn't prepared to part with my money for what I saw as a sub-standard product.

 

I know loads of users here swear by it, but if it won't work for you, why would you use it.

Fair that you shouldn't pay for it.

 

Unfair that you should trash it and call it a "substandard product" just because there might be something wrong with your system perhaps?  I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're smart enough not to have made a mistake since you seem to know your way around the ST obviously... but having something quirky about your hardware?

 

Sometimes it's just a matter of one setting.  Had that with my BBS.  On default settings the BBS hangs at the login screen for something like 48 seconds.  That's why I can't use EmuTos either.  But I flip one setting in HDDriver and it goes away.

 

But to call it substandard is just wrong.

[TGB1718]

1 hour ago, Tillek said:

But to call it substandard is just wrong.

Maybe that was a bit strong, but over the years, I've built many servers/raid arrays using SCSI hard drives,

even my PC a few years ago was running a 6 disk SCSI RAID array, I'm also an electronics engineer and software engineer,

so have a pretty good understanding of how these things should work.

 

Believe me, I tried everything I could think of, but it just won't run and that's on 2 different ST's, so can't even get to the settings,

I did communicate with the chap who supports HDDriver and even he was stumped, he said the demo is the same software

as the full version with the obvious limits, but functionally the same.

 

I even thought it may be my SCSI interface/hard drive, but I've been told that if I put in my NETUSBEE and disconnect the hard drive

HDDrive should see the USB drives, but again it either crashes or shows no drives then bombs

[Chri O.]

I've got no issues with HDDriver tested on Atari falcon 030 and Atari ST/e. 
Here is my two cents.
With modern hard drive implementations you need to keep the wiring short don't ask how I know this.
Atari's official documentation claims maximum possible transfer speed of 1.25 MB/s well guess what I've been approaching 2 MB/s with my prototype hard drive.
But here is the catch as soon as I connect other drives with long cables things go down the hill quick.
There is also problematic DMA IC on some STEs ( C025913-38 ).

[TGB1718]

5 hours ago, Chri O. said:

There is also problematic DMA IC on some STEs ( C025913-38 ).

Didn't know that, next time I open her up I'll check that number

[Chri O.]

UltraSatan -- JOOKIE'S HOME PAGE: STE problems

[FrankThomas]

Hi, I am curious to see your work. Please updating us here about your project when you start building it. :)